When is season 8 will John's parentage?/Daenerys' pregnancy be revealed ?

[DisneyDoc2425]

The writers have indicated that there are going to be 3 major plot lines in season 8 focusing on the war with the Night King, Cersei’s fate, and the relationship between Jon and Daenerys. Obviously the two major issues in the third plot line would center around Jon’s parentage and Daenerys’ pregnancy. So when do people think these issues will be brought into the open in season 8 and how will they impact their relationship? When will Jon find out about his parentage and will he then try to hide it from becoming general knowledge? Similarly will Daenerys try to hide her pregnancy? It would seem to me that keeping these issues hidden for too long would not leave much time for these plot lines to be developed to any great degree. Or perhaps one or both of these issues will be kept hidden because they are somehow going to be related to the third major twist that is supposed to occur at the end of the season. So what do people think?

[btfu806]

Am I the only one that hopes Dany isn't pregnant?

I assume, if this is the route they are going down, all the Dany/Jon relationship stuff will get out of the way with in the first three episodes. With hearing about how much action there will be in the last two/three episodes, I honestly don't know how they will fit much plot in there...

[Kajjo]

On 8/12/2018 at 3:26 PM, DisneyDoc2425 said:

Obviously the two major issues in the third plot line would center around Jon’s parentage and Daenerys’ pregnancy

We do not know about her pregnancy yet. She is supposed to be barren. Daenerys has had a lot of sex in Essos, too, without becoming pregnant. 

On 8/13/2018 at 6:31 PM, btfu806 said:

Am I the only one that hopes Dany isn't pregnant?

No, you are not. I hope so, too. 

On 8/12/2018 at 3:26 PM, DisneyDoc2425 said:

When will Jon find out about his parentage and will he then try to hide it from becoming general knowledge?

After arriving in Winterfell. The groups is already on its way from Dragonstone to Winterfell. Sam and Bran are waiting in Winterfell to tell Jon his true parentage. The only question is, how many scenes (even episodes) are between leaving Dragonstone and arriving in Winterfell. I guess not too many. This message will drop early on. 

I think there is no chance to hide the revelation of his true parentage, but who knows.

On 8/12/2018 at 3:26 PM, DisneyDoc2425 said:

Similarly will Daenerys try to hide her pregnancy?

She cannot know about a pregnance for several weak and must be unsure about it for months. A visibly pregnant Daenerys is against the expected timeline of immediate Great war between Night King and Westeros allaince near Winterfell. This is about weeks at most, not about several months.

 

On 8/12/2018 at 3:26 PM, DisneyDoc2425 said:

to be related to the third major twist that is supposed to occur at the end of the season

Maybe Daenerys turns to be a mad queen and Jon kills or sacrifices her for the greater good. Maybe only then her potential pregnancy becomes known, if at all. 

[DisneyDoc2425]

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

We do not know about her pregnancy yet. She is supposed to be barren. Daenerys has had a lot of sex in Essos, too, without becoming pregnant. 

No, you are not. I hope so, too. 

After arriving in Winterfell. The groups is already on its way from Dragonstone to Winterfell. Sam and Bran are waiting in Winterfell to tell Jon his true parentage. The only question is, how many scenes (even episodes) are between leaving Dragonstone and arriving in Winterfell. I guess not too many. This message will drop early on. 

I think there is no chance to hide the revelation of his true parentage, but who knows.

She cannot know about a pregnance for several weak and must be unsure about it for months. A visibly pregnant Daenerys is against the expected timeline of immediate Great war between Night King and Westeros allaince near Winterfell. This is about weeks at most, not about several months.

 

Maybe Daenerys turns to be a mad queen and Jon kills or sacrifices her for the greater good. Maybe only then her potential pregnancy becomes known, if at all. 

Writers not uncommonly will contract or expand their time lines to suit their story lines. We have already seen this in GOT, so season 8 might be expanded to a number of months, possibly even longer. I would not logically try to predict this for sure.

There have been multiple (at least 4) scenes in S7E6 and S7E7 that appear to be predictive of Daenerys becoming pregnant. While any one of these individually might be viewed as just filler when you add them all up together the odds of Daenerys becoming pregnant seem almost certain. I doubt the directors would include all these scenes and waste screen time for them just to produce a major red herring.

As far as Daenerys being barren is concerned many people feel that the death of one of her “children” (Viserion) is the factor that would allow her to become pregnant once again (“only death will pay for life”). As well, IMHO, if you would allow for a little theoretical abstraction, I opine that Jon will actually be fulfilling his prophesized Azor Ahai role (as per Melisandre) by utilizing an instrument other than a sword to ignite the fire of pregnancy within Daenerys and thereby also fulfill the PTWP prophecy by them producing a child (children) that will ultimately be instrumental in the rebirth of a new reformed Westeros in the future.

[Kajjo]

10 hours ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

by utilizing an instrument other than a sword to ignite the fire of pregnancy

That's ridiculous. A penis instead of a sword to fulfill the prophecy?

The point about "only death will pay for life" might be valid, though. Maybe she was barren but is not anymore.

10 hours ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

There have been multiple (at least 4) scenes in S7E6 and S7E7 that appear to be predictive of Daenerys becoming pregnant.

Yes, I agree that there was talk about who will succeed her, What other scenes do you have in mind?

 

10 hours ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

Writers not uncommonly will contract or expand their time lines to suit their story lines.

Unfortunately, this is true, but very much despised by me. 9 months pregnancy vs. the immediate Great War sounds too far fetched, though.

[DisneyDoc2425]

17 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, I agree that there was talk about who will succeed her, What other scenes do you have in mind?

 

 

The evidence from S7E6&7 which supports the belief that Daenerys will become pregnant in S8 include the following:

As you mentioned the scene where Tryion is talking to Daenerys about a successor once she is gone.

When Jon goes north of the wall Jorah gives Longclaw back to him stating he hopes it will serve Jon well, and Jon’s children after him.

Jon is on the bed after being rescued by Daenerys. She states to him that it is her belief that her dragons are the only children she will ever have and asks Jon if he understands this.

In the Dragonpit Jon picks up the jaw of a long dead “dragon”. Daenerys reaches out to him, takes it from him, and then returns it to him. I don’t think you have to have a PhD to see the symbolism here. Almost right after this Jon asks Daenerys why she feels she can’t have children and she responds by saying the witch who killed her husband told her so. Jon responds by saying that the witch might not have been the most reliable source of information. She gives a small smile as a response.

The season ends with a prominent Boatsex scene. A common finding in prime-time drama series is that when a (the) leading female character has sex, she will become pregnant (I didn’t say always).

If you combine all the above combined with Viserion’s death it seems almost guaranteed she will be pregnant next season. While you might be able to explain any of the individual scenes above in another manner I really think you need to assess them in a combined/cumulative fashion.

Some additional possible evidence: If you have the Blue Ray edition for season 7 you can go to the Bonus Features section and you will find that there is one component where Kitt, Lena, and D&D are discussing the Dragonpit scene. Almost no one looks at these Bonus features as evidenced by D&D even making a comment that the one person probably viewing it is “depraved”. They then apologize for the comment. They obviously don’t think many people are even listening. Kitt first states that it was his impression that Daenerys can’t have children and D&D both immediately respond “We shall see about that”. This is followed by a somewhat hard to make out comment about Daenerys meeting “Little Jon”.  Now again you may be able to explain this in another manner but I feel it just adds to the above noted evidence.

If you have any theories about what happens in season 8 you might need to consider adjusting/modifying them a bit to take into consideration a pregnant Daenerys. Would the show be so bold as to kill off a pregnant Daenerys (and Jon) in order to ensure that a Targaryen dynasty can never again be established in Westeros? Obviously this is only one possible scenario.

[btfu806]

On 8/14/2018 at 4:48 PM, DisneyDoc2425 said:

As far as Daenerys being barren is concerned many people feel that the death of one of her “children” (Viserion) is the factor that would allow her to become pregnant once again (“only death will pay for life”). As well, IMHO, if you would allow for a little theoretical abstraction, I opine that Jon will actually be fulfilling his prophesized Azor Ahai role (as per Melisandre) by utilizing an instrument other than a sword to ignite the fire of pregnancy within Daenerys and thereby also fulfill the PTWP prophecy by them producing a child (children) that will ultimately be instrumental in the rebirth of a new reformed Westeros in the future.

Personally, I don't think Dany will become pregnant, they will have to make some major jumps to get there. But let's say they do for argument sake.

They are going to have to do a lot of explaining for the Dany being barren thing. Even if you do the "death pays for life," that's going to take a long explanation of how a death of her "child" and you can argue that a dragon is her child, magically makes her womb able to have children. That's a long reach and a lot of explanation needed.

As far as TPTWP and AA and whatever. How much does the show talk about that? I know it's briefly mentioned every now and again and more so in the beginning with Stannis. But the average show watcher I don't think would have any idea about it or how that prophecy works, but maybe they do, IDK. I just don't remember it being talked about that much in recent seasons. Also, I don't buy into that banging some chick (they barely know each other in the show... and that's a whole other issue I have but that's a whole other thing) is the same as a prophecy of stabbing your lover through the heart with a flaming sword. But maybe I am wrong..

[DisneyDoc2425]

I would refer you to my 8/15 post #6 to support Deanerys getting pregnant. My theoretical abstraction, IMHO, is not as far-fetched as some people think, but at least you have an open mind about it, thanks. I think its clear from what we saw in S7 that Daenerys and Jon are passionately in love with one another.

[btfu806]

1 hour ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

I would refer you to my 8/15 post #6 to support Deanerys getting pregnant. My theoretical abstraction, IMHO, is not as far-fetched as some people think, but at least you have an open mind about it, thanks. I think its clear from what we saw in S7 that Daenerys and Jon are passionately in love with one another.

You're right in your #6 post about the foreshadowing of it. I definitely don't question that. I guess my issue is more how they explain away her barren-ness (if that's a word...)

Based on what the showrunners have done the past season, your theory isn't far fetched by any means. Just I don't get yet how they would explain it... Hopefully they do and hopefully it makes some sense.

And yes, last season does show that they are in love or w/e. I just personally think it's stupid since like 20 seconds passed and they are in love. And yes, I get the arguments, they had to speed up plot, end game, so on and so forth. I just personally didn't like it is all...

[Angel Eyes]

1 minute ago, btfu806 said:

You're right in your #6 post about the foreshadowing of it. I definitely don't question that. I guess my issue is more how they explain away her barren-ness (if that's a word...)

Based on what the showrunners have done the past season, your theory isn't far fetched by any means. Just I don't get yet how they would explain it... Hopefully they do and hopefully it makes some sense.

And yes, last season does show that they are in love or w/e. I just personally think it's stupid since like 20 seconds passed and they are in love. And yes, I get the arguments, they had to speed up plot, end game, so on and so forth. I just personally didn't like it is all...

Same here. Don’t quite get how they get from arguing, to being allies, to having sex in four episodes. Jon took twice that time to have sex with Ygritte.

[btfu806]

Just now, Angel Eyes said:

Same here. Don’t quite get how they get from arguing, to being allies, to having sex in four episodes. Jon took twice that time to have sex with Ygritte.

Exactly. What he had with Ygritte felt more "real" if that's a thing for a TV show. This Dany thing seems more like they wanted it to happen, so it did. It never grew organically. Again, I know people will come with the counter argument of not enough time in the show, rushing through plot, w/e, w/e. It's still very frustrating to see and personally, I just don't "buy" it in the show.

[DisneyDoc2425]

Just another theory. Perhaps the pregnancy and all of the other apparent inconsistencies might be explained by the idea that all of these things are being put into place by the Lord of the Light. He/she (I’m not sure if the sex of this “character” has been established) resurrected Jon and perhaps (no direct evidence of this however) was involved in the birth (hatching) of Dany’s dragons. This could also explain a tie in to the Azor Ahei and PTWP prophecies (perhaps these prophesies should not be taken too literally). Perhaps the last major twist is that “A Song of Ice and Fire” is not related specifically to any of the characters people think it is but rather it relates to the conflict/battle between the Lord of the Light (fire/good) and the Night King (ice/bad). The happenings in Westeros are  just how this primary underlying conflict will play itself out.  Please don’t flame me on this.  Just an idea and probably will not turn out to be true. But this is a fictional story with  underlying magical/mystical components to it.

[Kajjo]

21 hours ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

If you combine all the above combined with Viserion’s death it seems almost guaranteed she will be pregnant next season.

Well, yes, there are hints towards a possible Daenerys' pregnancy, but it will need 9 months even so. Difficult to get the timeline right with the white walkers already marching towards Winterfell. And yes, there were timeline issues before, but to shorten a pregnancy would be too much.

21 hours ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

to take into consideration a pregnant Daenerys. Would the show be so bold as to kill off a pregnant Daenerys

I hope so. That would be a 3rd shocking twist... I just can't see how both can survive for this to make sense. But we will see...

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Don’t quite get how they get from arguing, to being allies, to having sex in four episodes. Jon took twice that time to have sex with Ygritte.

First of all, Jon was bound by his Nightwatch' vows not to have sex and it took a while to breach the vow. Further, Ygritte was his first woman at all. 

Daenerys and he spent quite a time on Dragonstone and had meaningful discussions, an extreme survival north of the wall, and the checked each other up quite some time, including his bonding with the dragon. This is not "love on first sight" but quite a development. We have seen only short scenes of it, but it is easily conceivable that these two important leaders can lust for each other. Yes, they might have fallen in love and they obviously respect each other, but it sounds a little bit Hollywoody-ish to immediately talk about love instead of infatuation or simple lust.

[jcmontea]

On 8/16/2018 at 6:56 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Same here. Don’t quite get how they get from arguing, to being allies, to having sex in four episodes. Jon took twice that time to have sex with Ygritte.

don't people go from arguing to fucking to falling in love in movies all the time? 

 

[SecretWeapon]

Daenerys actually DOES get pregnant during her time in Mereen in the books (and aborts during her diarrhea spree near the end of ADWD). For the show, could it be that simply Daario was infertile or that her situation took on her body and she simply  didn't  get preggers by sheer luck

[dbunting]

I don't get why people think Jon / Dany happened fast. They spent time on Dragonstone together, there was clear attraction right away. They had the adventure north of the wall together. They traveled to kingslanding together, they are traveling back and now hook up. That seems like a month or more minimum that they knew each other; and several of those weeks traveling in close spaces together.

Dany and pregnancy, if she is then I would guess it may be the final scene? Jon's funeral pyre and she has a small baby bump?

[Lucius Lovejoy]

So episode 1 is going to end with Sam and Bran approaching Jon like "we need to talk about your mother" and then episode 2 will begin with Jon and Daenerys in the room together after he has told her he cannot be with her and she starts pleading with him that it doesn't matter, Targaryens have inbred for centuries, yadda yadda yadda, but Jon isn't buying it, and then Daenerys finds out she is pregnant and the end of the episode, and tries to hide it from Jon for all of episode 3, but the cat comes out the bag by episode 4 and he then commits to her.

[MoIaF]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:58 PM, DisneyDoc2425 said:

The evidence from S7E6&7 which supports the belief that Daenerys will become pregnant in S8 include the following:

As you mentioned the scene where Tryion is talking to Daenerys about a successor once she is gone.

When Jon goes north of the wall Jorah gives Longclaw back to him stating he hopes it will serve Jon well, and Jon’s children after him.

Jon is on the bed after being rescued by Daenerys. She states to him that it is her belief that her dragons are the only children she will ever have and asks Jon if he understands this.

In the Dragonpit Jon picks up the jaw of a long dead “dragon”. Daenerys reaches out to him, takes it from him, and then returns it to him. I don’t think you have to have a PhD to see the symbolism here. Almost right after this Jon asks Daenerys why she feels she can’t have children and she responds by saying the witch who killed her husband told her so. Jon responds by saying that the witch might not have been the most reliable source of information. She gives a small smile as a response.

The season ends with a prominent Boatsex scene. A common finding in prime-time drama series is that when a (the) leading female character has sex, she will become pregnant (I didn’t say always).

If you combine all the above combined with Viserion’s death it seems almost guaranteed she will be pregnant next season. While you might be able to explain any of the individual scenes above in another manner I really think you need to assess them in a combined/cumulative fashion.

Some additional possible evidence: If you have the Blue Ray edition for season 7 you can go to the Bonus Features section and you will find that there is one component where Kitt, Lena, and D&D are discussing the Dragonpit scene. Almost no one looks at these Bonus features as evidenced by D&D even making a comment that the one person probably viewing it is “depraved”. They then apologize for the comment. They obviously don’t think many people are even listening. Kitt first states that it was his impression that Daenerys can’t have children and D&D both immediately respond “We shall see about that”. This is followed by a somewhat hard to make out comment about Daenerys meeting “Little Jon”.  Now again you may be able to explain this in another manner but I feel it just adds to the above noted evidence.

If you have any theories about what happens in season 8 you might need to consider adjusting/modifying them a bit to take into consideration a pregnant Daenerys. Would the show be so bold as to kill off a pregnant Daenerys (and Jon) in order to ensure that a Targaryen dynasty can never again be established in Westeros? Obviously this is only one possible scenario.

I thought they had made it abundantly clear last season that Dany will get pregnant in season 8. I've known that she was going to have a child with Jon since season 2, the clues in the book shave been pretty clear.

Jon telling Dany that the witch could have been lying should have been the nail in the coffin of any doubt that Jon and Dany's baby was coming next season. I imagine she'll give birth second to last episode or the last episode. The heir needs to be born before the series is over.

They really don't need to explain anything. A women can spend years trying to get pregnant, the one day boom it happens. This is a normal occurrence. It could be as simple as Jon was the right person at the right time.

[btfu806]

23 minutes ago, MoIaF said:

I thought they had made it abundantly clear last season that Dany will get pregnant in season 8. I've known that she was going to have a child with Jon since season 2, the clues in the book shave been pretty clear.

Jon telling Dany that the witch could have been lying should have been the nail in the coffin of any doubt that Jon and Dany's baby was coming next season. I imagine she'll give birth second to last episode or the last episode. The heir needs to be born before the series is over.

They really don't need to explain anything. A women can spend years trying to get pregnant, the one day boom it happens. This is a normal occurrence. It could be as simple as Jon was the right person at the right time.

What clues in the books have made it clear that Jon and Dany were going to have a baby?

[MoIaF]

1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

What clues in the books have made it clear that Jon and Dany were going to have a baby?

From book one AGOT:

“The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don’t you see? Don’t you SEE? “

i.e. Daughter of Targaryens, Bride of Targaryens, Mother of Targaryens. Don’t you see, Don’t you SEE!

Like all good first books, it gives us a clear clue as to where the story was headed. Later in the series we see the yearning that both Jon and Dany have for a family they believe they cannot have:

JON ASOS

“I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall.”

DAENERYS ADWD

“I will never have a little girl. I was the Mother of Dragons.”

This is not the type of thing that is brought up if nothing is going to come of it, it's brought up because the author wants you to keep it in mind for when it actually happens it's either a surprise or, if you were paying attention, it confirmation of your theory.

There are many clues hinting at the union of Jon and Daenerys, in both the books and the show. So we know they're going to be a couple, add to this the other clues that exist that Dany will have a child and it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together.

For example, Dany's final two chapters in AGOT and her final two chapters in ADWD (she has 10 chapters in both books) share an awful lot of similarities. If you recall Dany has a stillbirth in AGOT Daenerys IIX and in ADWD Daenerys X she has a miscarriage and there are similarities between these two events. First, Dany finds herself in the Dothraki sea for both and right before she has her stillbirth and miscarriage, this happens.

            AGOT Dany IX

“Mirri Maz Duur was there, the maegi, tipping a cup against her lips. She tasted sour milk, and something else, something thick and bitter.”

ADWD Dany X

“Its flesh was tart and chewy, with a bitter aftertaste that seemed familiar to her.”

Then, in both instances she forgets a child :

• AGOT Dany IX (after waking up from her fevered dream):

Flying, she thought. I had wings, I was flying. But it was only a dream. “Help me,” she whispered, struggling to rise. “Bring me …” Her voice was raw as a wound, and she could not think what she wanted. Why did she hurt so much? It was as if her body had been torn to pieces and remade from the scraps. “I want …”

***

Dany needed … something … someone … what? It was important, she knew. It was the only thing in the world that mattered.

***

They found her on the carpet, crawling toward her dragon eggs.

***

Jhiqui would have run as well, but Dany caught her by the wrist and held her captive. “What is it? I must know. Drogo … and my child.” Why had she not remembered the child until now? “My son … Rhaego … where is he? I want him.”

***

She should weep, she knew, yet her eyes were dry as ash. She had wept in her dream, and the tears had turned to steam on her cheeks. All the grief has been burned out of me, she told herself. She felt sad, and yet … she could feel Rhaego receding from her, as if he had never been.

ADWD Dany X

Drogon killed a little girl. Her name was… her name… Dany could not recall the child’s name.

That made her so sad that she would have cried if all her tears had not been burned away. I will never have a little girl. I was the Mother of Dragons.

There is a progression going on in the books. Dany's story is cyclical in nature and she is the Child of Three, a version of this even will repeat itself but the conditions surrounding it will be very different. It has to be different in order for her to give birth to a live child because the first two times, when a lot of the conditions where similar, she lost a child.

ETA: I forgot to note that the first quote happens before Dany walks into the pyre and hatches the dragons.