Lynesse Hightower Confusion

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Maybe it's because I'm reading a Dany chapter right now where she's thinking about Reznak being the perfumed seneschal. So tin foil moment.

We've got Varys who is plump and perfumed. And we've got Reznak who is also perfumed. 

Satin grows a beard into which he combs perfume. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:12 PM, bemused said:

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:26 AM, The Sleeper said:

As for the captain's attitude I think it is consistent with what most Westerosi would think about the course of her life and the fact that she left her husband and is basically a glorified mistress

 I agree that it would be consistent with what most Westerosi would think if leaving her husband and becoming a concubine / mistress was the most scandalous thing about the couple.. but surely Jorah running from a death sentence for selling people into slavery would be a bit more notorious.

And given the well-known association between whores and sailors, sailors and whores, I think it's odd that a sea captain (not a septon, e.g.) should call her one in such a denigrating way.... As an example, from ADWD, The Ugly Little Girl... 

Quote

She saw sailors on the prowl for whores, and whores on the prowl for sailors.

 I would think the captain should be a bit more sanguine about it.

I wouldn’t read too much into it to be honest. The captain was generally mouthing off, and lashed out in all directions if I recall correctly. He also mocked Lord Hightower for dabbling in magic and called Cersei a bitch. He was just angry because of the Ironborn attack. The whole conversation was designed to show how desperate things had become on the Reach.

Also, for the less enlightened, the words “concubine” and “whore” can be pretty synonymous, particularly when you’re just hurling abuse about.  

[Lynesse]

Lynesse being married off to Jorah always struck me as very odd. I think it likely that she was tarnished in some way. Jorah himself brings up how far beneath her station (and how poor, by comparison) he was. The Hightowers are considered a Great House, “one of the oldest and proudest”, according to the Wiki, plus they are famously wealthy. I don't think we know the full Jorah/Lynesse story yet.

As far as Satin being a potential Hightower bastard (I could absolutely see that being the case), there is textual evidence that the Hightowers might have a pair of eyes at the Wall:

"And beyond, where the Honeywine widened into Whispering Sound, rose the Hightower, its beacon fires bright against the dawn. From where it stood atop the bluffs of Battle Island, its shadow cut the city like a sword. Those born and raised in Oldtown could tell the time of day by where that shadow fell. Some claimed a man could see all the way to the Wall from the top. Perhaps that was why Lord Leyton had not made the descent in more than a decade, preferring to rule his city from the clouds." (AFFC, Prologue)

There is an ice/fire dichotomy there, too, the beacon fire atop the Hightower brought up in conjunction with the Wall of ice.

Satin says "My lord" instead of "M'lord", doesn't he?

[bemused]

On 8/15/2018 at 5:50 PM, Widow's Watch said:

Maybe it's because I'm reading a Dany chapter right now where she's thinking about Reznak being the perfumed seneschal. So tin foil moment.

We've got Varys who is plump and perfumed. And we've got Reznak who is also perfumed. 

Satin grows a beard into which he combs perfume. 

 Yes, Satin is one among many (including a ship) who could fit the description ... but so far, at least, it 's difficult to see a reason that Dany should be specifically warned about him.

On 8/16/2018 at 7:43 AM, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I wouldn’t read too much into it to be honest. The captain was generally mouthing off, and lashed out in all directions if I recall correctly. He also mocked Lord Hightower for dabbling in magic and called Cersei a bitch. He was just angry because of the Ironborn attack. The whole conversation was designed to show how desperate things had become on the Reach.

Also, for the less enlightened, the words “concubine” and “whore” can be pretty synonymous, particularly when you’re just hurling abuse about.

 

For me, there's a lot that can be read into the captain's rant. There's information included in his general use of invective , and questions that perhaps we should be thinking about are identified. As well as revealing how desperate the situation is, it points out (in a limited way) what is being done.

 

Quote

 

"The Hightower must be doing something."

 

"To be sure. Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he'll raise an army from the deeps. Or not. Baelor's building galleys, Gunthor has charge of the harbor, Garth is training new recruits, and Humfrey's gone to Lys to hire sellsails. If he can winkle a proper fleet out of his whore of a sister, we can start paying back the ironmen with some of their own coin. Till then, the best we can do is guard the sound and wait for the bitch queen in King's Landing to let Lord Paxter off his leash."

 

The bitterness of the captain's final words shocked Sam as much as the things he said. If King's Landing loses Oldtown and the Arbor, the whole realm will fall to pieces, he thought as he watched the Huntress and her sisters moving off.   

 

... AFFC, Samwell V

 

GRRM has Sam make an opening statement. He doesn't have Sam pose a question such as ... What is the Hightower doing? or Is the Hightower doing anything ? etc. ... His statement confirms what we readers, especially with the benefit of re-reads, have become convinced of - Lord Hightower must be doing something.

The captain is bitter, yes, but he doesn't know all that we know. He hasn't been privy to all the discussion of glass candles recorded in the prologue (and elsewhere), or to the quote from the prologue provided by @Lynesse , above..

On 8/16/2018 at 3:21 PM, Lynesse said:

Those born and raised in Oldtown could tell the time of day by where that shadow fell. Some claimed a man could see all the way to the Wall from the top. Perhaps that was why Lord Leyton had not made the descent in more than a decade,

... so, to the captain, it may seem like Lord Leyton and Malora are involved in some exercise in futility , but we can safely doubt his assessment. Just any man could not see all the way to the wall from atop the Hightower - but a man with a glass candle... ?

When the captain simply says "Baelor's building galleys" it might sound like a last-ditch wild effort.. but we might reasonably suspect a parallel with the Manderly / Umber project on the White Knife. We haven't yet been told how long Baelor's been building galleys. 

(And if I'm right about Satin the following is one of the clues that linked him to Baelor, for me.. )

Quote

 The turtle had a rounded top and eight huge wheels, and under the hides was a stout wooden frame. When the wildlings had begun knocking it together, Satin thought they were building a ship. Not far wrong. The turtle was a hull turned upside down and opened fore and aft;  .... ASOS, Jon IX

Baelor is Leyton's heir. If Leyton hasn't descended from the tower in a decade, Baelor must have been a pretty busy fellow in that time. As heir, he must have many responsibilities. He can't be only and always a shipbuilder, but set to oversee a specific effort.

(And if Satin's familiarity with ship building is linked to Baelor, then Baelor may have been at it since before Satin left Oldtown.)

"Gunthor has charge of the harbor." ... We know that Tyrion had charge of the harbour (among other things) at the Battle of the Blackwater. I'd be surprised if Gunthor didn't have any plan, but the captain wouldn't need to know that plan yet, especially if he might be captured, or even might be likely to rant about it to travellers on an incoming vessel. ... "Garth is training new recruits." ... How many and for how long?

"Humfrey's gone to Lys to hire sellsails."... When did he go? If Leyton has a glass candle, he could have had a fair amount of advance knowledge of the activities of the Ironborn. (e.g.,Marwyn has been expecting Sam.)  In any case, I doubt Humfrey will be calling Lynesse "whore".

The captain of the Huntress is set to guarding the sound now, but as I say he may have been to Essos previously, or he'd know many men who had. He'd be aware of the distinction between whore and concubine in Lys and between whore and courtesan in Braavos.

I don't think he's simply a mysoginist because he calls Lynesse "whore" and Cersei the "bitch queen in King's landing". He doesn't know all that we know about Cersei and it seems ,from his speech , that Cersei hadn't been arrested yet (or the news hadn't reached him) since he sees it as her responsibility to "let Lord Paxter off his leash." .. For me, though, that's enough to earn "bitch queen" from the captain. Even half the Redwyne fleet would be of great help right now, but Oldtown has been left to go it alone. 

He uses no derogatory term for any of the others he mentions, except Lynesse. So, that brings me back to : Either she ...

1. ... actually did something to warrant the opinion before she ever married Jorah, or..

        2. ... It's based on rumours put about to obscure the actual reason she was married to Jorah

 

This would not be entirely odd, given that we know false stories are put about now and then to support someone's long game.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Never mind.

[LindsayLohan]

7 hours ago, bemused said:

 Yes, Satin is one among many (including a ship) who could fit the description ... but so far, at least, it 's difficult to see a reason that Dany should be specifically warned about him.

 

For me, there's a lot that can be read into the captain's rant. There's information included in his general use of invective , and questions that perhaps we should be thinking about are identified. As well as revealing how desperate the situation is, it points out (in a limited way) what is being done.

 

GRRM has Sam make an opening statement. He doesn't have Sam pose a question such as ... What is the Hightower doing? or Is the Hightower doing anything ? etc. ... His statement confirms what we readers, especially with the benefit of re-reads, have become convinced of - Lord Hightower must be doing something.

The captain is bitter, yes, but he doesn't know all that we know. He hasn't been privy to all the discussion of glass candles recorded in the prologue (and elsewhere), or to the quote from the prologue provided by @Lynesse , above..

... so, to the captain, it may seem like Lord Leyton and Malora are involved in some exercise in futility , but we can safely doubt his assessment. Just any man could not see all the way to the wall from atop the Hightower - but a man with a glass candle... ?

When the captain simply says "Baelor's building galleys" it might sound like a last-ditch wild effort.. but we might reasonably suspect a parallel with the Manderly / Umber project on the White Knife. We haven't yet been told how long Baelor's been building galleys. 

(And if I'm right about Satin the following is one of the clues that linked him to Baelor, for me.. )

Baelor is Leyton's heir. If Leyton hasn't descended from the tower in a decade, Baelor must have been a pretty busy fellow in that time. As heir, he must have many responsibilities. He can't be only and always a shipbuilder, but set to oversee a specific effort.

(And if Satin's familiarity with ship building is linked to Baelor, then Baelor may have been at it since before Satin left Oldtown.)

"Gunthor has charge of the harbor." ... We know that Tyrion had charge of the harbour (among other things) at the Battle of the Blackwater. I'd be surprised if Gunthor didn't have any plan, but the captain wouldn't need to know that plan yet, especially if he might be captured, or even might be likely to rant about it to travellers on an incoming vessel. ... "Garth is training new recruits." ... How many and for how long?

"Humfrey's gone to Lys to hire sellsails."... When did he go? If Leyton has a glass candle, he could have had a fair amount of advance knowledge of the activities of the Ironborn. (e.g.,Marwyn has been expecting Sam.)  In any case, I doubt Humfrey will be calling Lynesse "whore".

The captain of the Huntress is set to guarding the sound now, but as I say he may have been to Essos previously, or he'd know many men who had. He'd be aware of the distinction between whore and concubine in Lys and between whore and courtesan in Braavos.

I don't think he's simply a mysoginist because he calls Lynesse "whore" and Cersei the "bitch queen in King's landing". He doesn't know all that we know about Cersei and it seems ,from his speech , that Cersei hadn't been arrested yet (or the news hadn't reached him) since he sees it as her responsibility to "let Lord Paxter off his leash." .. For me, though, that's enough to earn "bitch queen" from the captain. Even half the Redwyne fleet would be of great help right now, but Oldtown has been left to go it alone. 

He uses no derogatory term for any of the others he mentions, except Lynesse. So, that brings me back to : Either she ...

1. ... actually did something to warrant the opinion before she ever married Jorah, or..

        2. ... It's based on rumours put about to obscure the actual reason she was married to Jorah

 

This would not be entirely odd, given that we know false stories are put about now and then to support someone's long game.

It could be that the captain of Huntress simply sees a married woman who spurns her husband to be a live-in mistress for a married man as a whore, and speaks plainly.  There's a good deal of talking in circles, but whore/concubine/mistress are fairly interchangeable, and Lynesse is a bit of a whooah.