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Marcus

Westeros M2:TW mod- Alpha Map

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Then I'd leave them out... however, any comment on introducing Mole's Town? (Either as Queenscrown, or as a replacement?)

Mole's Town as a replacement for Queenscrown was what I had been envisioning myself

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I'm guessing Hardhome would be the wildlings capital, as their only town/city?

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That or Frozen Shore. Likely won't have anythingin them. Peasant units, etc. The invasion will have stacks scripted to appear in the Frostfangs and march on Castle Black and Shadow Tower? Or Eastwatch? I forget which way the decoy was.

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I thought I remember Dolorous Ed saying something about combat at the Shadow Tower, while recounting his tale of a wildling plummeting to his death on rocks. Its been a while, so I could be way off.

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Hi all, was waiting for the forum valid so a bit late... :(

Suggestions for the map(however trivial):

I think we need more woods around the riverlands. Remember how Lannisters pillaged and burned? And how afterwards it becomes a land of rogues, brotherhoods and broken men? They couldn't have done it if the riverlands are all bare plains, especially in the game when 1 spy or watchtower can see so far. Trees can block sight and allow the drama to develop, and there are ambush battles if you hide in them. It's perfect for the setting.

Come to think of it I'm seeing alot less trees down south. You can probably add some more on regions like Kingswood and whispering wood. (I'm SOOO going to ambush Jaime myself)

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Hi all, was waiting for the forum valid so a bit late... :(

Suggestions for the map(however trivial):

I think we need more woods around the riverlands. Remember how Lannisters pillaged and burned? And how afterwards it becomes a land of rogues, brotherhoods and broken men? They couldn't have done it if the riverlands are all bare plains, especially in the game when 1 spy or watchtower can see so far. Trees can block sight and allow the drama to develop, and there are ambush battles if you hide in them. It's perfect for the setting.

Come to think of it I'm seeing alot less trees down south. You can probably add some more on regions like Kingswood and whispering wood. (I'm SOOO going to ambush Jaime myself)

Yep I'm planning on adding even more trees to the area to spice up the Reach and the Riverlands a bit more.... north of Riverrun is actually a good amount of forest and along the area near the Whispering Woods too...

Update on map:

Added in the proper titles for the faction leaders and heirs. For instance:

Greyjoy, Stark, Baratheons all have King as the title for the faction leader, faction heirs are Prince, princesses are Princess (so it would say Stark Princess when you mouseover their character on the map, character info screen would say Princess Sansa etc.). For the Greyjoys, I need some ideas for the princesses and heirs as they do not use the same system (I am tempted to just put Lady for princess, so Greyjoy Lady or Lady blahblahblah, and nothing for the faction heir so it would just say Victarion, no Prince etc. in front).

For the rest of them, I've put Lord as the faction leader but need help on a title for the faction heir (I was tempted to use Ser but not all heirs need be knights).

Dorne of course has Prince/Prince/Princess.

Oh and all quotes and religion names are in.

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Speaking of which, I think all sight distance should be reduced a bit. Perhaps it would depend on if there are cavalry in the army or not, who could be used as outriders, or have an actual outrider unit that increases the line of sight of any army it's in. Might not be possible, but it seems like it should, since it can vary from unit to unit.

I also agree the entire map needs more forest.

However, while in Vanilla M2 you can't see the locations of settlements until you uncover them manually, all settlement locations in Westeros should be visible from the beginning of the game. Is this possible?

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Okay! Time to do family trees. I put this in this topic as family trees are in the campaign files *nod*

Shall we start with Stark?

Proposed tree:

Eddard(dead)

Cailtin-Age?

Robb- 14 or 15 when crowned?

Sansa-12

Arya-10

Brandon-8

Rickon-4

Jon to appear in Night's Watch tree

Benjen to appear in Night's Watch tree.

Anyone missing? Caitlin age, approx? How old is Robb by the time (or just before) Balon is crowned?

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Bran will be, Rickon will not. We have to make the "Coming of Age" younger so as Tommen and Robert Arryn will work. May as well do Arryn next...

Arryn:

Jon (dead)

Lysa -Age?

Robert-8

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Bran will be, Rickon will not. We have to make the "Coming of Age" younger so as Tommen and Robert Arryn will work. May as well do Arryn next...

Arryn:

Jon (dead)

Lysa -Age?

Robert-8

Lysa is 2 years younger than Catelyn, so I would say 31.

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Okay. Tully:

??? Who is Hoster's father and mother? They'll have to be included as dead characters if we want the Blackfish ingame

??? & ???

Hoster-Age

Brynden-Age

Ser Edmure-again, age?

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Balon's brothers will have to be on the same tier as him, and we'll need their parents. It's the same situation as with Tully.

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Okay. Tully:

??? Who is Hoster's father and mother? They'll have to be included as dead characters if we want the Blackfish ingame

Well, Lord and Lady Tully are all I know about Hoster's father and mother...

Lord and Lady Tully (Dead)

Hoster (old) & Minissa Whent (dead)

Brynden (?)

Ser Edmure (?)

... not many informations... :(

Balon's brothers will have to be on the same tier as him, and we'll need their parents. It's the same situation as with Tully.

Quellon Greyjoy and a Sunderly.

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I'm curious what you're thinking for the Lannisters, since they are split between 2 factions, Lannister and Joffrey Baratheon. Obviously Tywin will lead the former and Joffrey the latter, but which side will some of the family members serve? Tyrion was Joffrey's Hand through most of ACOK -- shouldn't he be a character in Joffrey's faction? What about Jaime? As Kingsguard, he's more in Joffrey's service than Tywin's.

Speaking of Lannister, same deal as Greyjoy and Tully, as the ruler has a brother you'll want to include. Lannister should definitely include Kevan Lannister, Tywin's brother. Tywin's father was Tytos Lannister. A family tree is avaiable here:

http://towerofthehand.com/reference/t/lannister.html

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Personal opinion on Lannisters and Joffrey:

Have Joffrey be ruler with a dead Robert Baratheon and an alive Cersei as parents.

Tyrion can be put under Joffrey as a general / non-family member or left under the Lannisters. Personally, leaving Jaime under either one works, though he commanded the Lannisters in the field a lot and Tywin still considered him his heir, vows be damned.

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I would have both Tyrion and Jaime in King Joffrey's faction -- Tywin may have thought of Jaime as his heir -- but he wasn't. And Tywin certainly doesn't want Tyrion inheriting. When Tywin died, Jaime did not become Lord of Casterly Rock, Cersei became the Lady. So I'd have Jaime and Tyrion both as "general" units in Joffrey's faction. His faction will need some generals anyways since he won't have a huge family or very many obvious characters.

That would make Kevan the in-game heir to Tywin since women cannot inherit. Aside from him, the Lannisters have a lot of options for family members and generals, so they'll have plenty even without Jaime and Tyrion.

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As far as I'm concerned, Joffrey's faction should have Dead Robert, Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella, with Tommen and Myrcella underage. That's it. They start with a huge army, the resources of King's Landing to support it, very strong unique units, access to a wide variety of mercenaries/guilds, and a strong, essentially unbreakable alliance with the Lannisters. Part of the fun/challenge of playing either faction would be getting your ally to do what's smart / favorable.

The mod would be quite workable with the Lannisters/Joffrey as the same faction, and still remain relatively faithful to the books (Robert will have then "married into" the Lannister family and died, instead of vice versa), but I kind of like the idea of the Joffrey faction as having its own unique situation, utterly dependent on its alliance with the Lannisters at the start, and with a dearth of leadership (as would be quite true to the books), but with unique units and resources not available to any other faction (kingsguard, gold cloaks). Much of Tyrion's stint as Hand can be approximated through the Alliance system, with Tyrion in King's Landing, hiring units that are of Lannister allegiance but whose purpose is the defense of the city (perhaps missions could be scripted to facilitate this?)

Leave Tyrion and Jaime with the Lannisters, giving them a wide and diverse family tree, and nice lands with immense incomes, but with enemies on essentially all sides (again, true to the books). I'm personally fine with Jaime being Tywin's heir, oaths be damned. I would theoretically support it if we could make it so the Lannisters are shuffled such that Kevan is the heir upon Tywin's death (Tywin didn't want Tyrion to inherit, and Jaime doesn't want the Rock, so Kevan is the only choice), but it sounds like the game is limited in what we can do in that regard, and I wouldn't want to get cutesy or bite off more than what would be fun. Jaime being the heir is close enough, and would probably be much simpler.

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I agree with Bazzle on this one, the Crownlands simply have too few generals and family members, while throwing Jaime/Tyrion out from the Lannister tree avoids the heritage trouble. Tyrion was the Hand, and Jaime Kingsguard, both positions directly under the Crown. And they didn't help their daddy much in the books anyway, the bannermen and lesser Lannisters did most of Tywin's work IIRC.

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