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Explaining Jaime and Aunt Genna's quote about Jaime


chrisdaw

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About Jaime is the quote, not Tyrion.

The point of Aunt Genna's quote said to Jaime in a Jaime chapter about Jaime, though often used in an explaining of Tyrion's character, is that it is wrong.

Here's the quote.

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"Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years."

Starting at the start.

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"Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast.

She's explaining Jaime as she knew him before, as he was previously. But this is a character arc, Jaime has changed, he isn't the same babe on Joanna's breast he once was. That's the point, GRRM is using old aunt Genna who knew Jaime as a babe to explain where Jaime started from, the beginning of the arc.

She goes on to explain why Jaime is not like Tywin. Something to understand first is that how she thinks of Tywin is almost certainly not how you think of Tywin. GRRM gives us her run down on Tywin.

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"Did you love him?" Jaime heard himself ask.

His aunt looked at him strangely. "I was seven when Walder Frey persuaded my lord father to give my hand to Emm. His second son, not even his heir. Father was himself a thirdborn son, and younger children crave the approval of their elders. Frey sensed that weakness in him, and Father agreed for no better reason than to please him. My betrothal was announced at a feast with half the west in attendance. Ellyn Tarbeck laughed and the Red Lion went angry from the hall. The rest sat on their tongues. Only Tywin dared speak against the match. A boy of ten. Father turned as white as mare's milk, and Walder Frey was quivering." She smiled. "How could I not love him, after that? That is not to say that I approved of all he did, or much enjoyed the company of the man that he became . . . but every little girl needs a big brother to protect her. Tywin was big even when he was little." She gave a sigh. "Who will protect us now?"

Jaime kissed her cheek. "He left a son."

Tywin was big even when he was little. She sees Tywin as a giant character, a protector. The boy who saw the ills at hand and would act when no-one else, not even adults and lords had the balls to say shit. This isn't a good or bad person thing, that's not what this is about, it is about stature, about will and influence, leadership and service.

 

Now the charges she levels at Jaime for why he's no Tywin.

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You smile like Gerion

That is to say he takes everything too casually, has a bit of a laugh, a bit of fun, but isn't serious enough like Tywin. Tywin who infamously almost never smiled in his life.

(Interesting take on things when in the next breath she will say Tyrion, the joker, is like Tywin. Sloppy maybe, but such a contradiction doesn't really matter, because the point here is Jaime and it helps make the Jaime point.)

A character trait GRRM makes explicit on Jaime's speaking introduction to the series.

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"I do not like it," a woman was saying. There was a row of windows beneath him, and the voice was drifting out of the last window on this side. "You should be the Hand."

"Gods forbid," a man's voice replied lazily. "It's not an honor I'd want. There's far too much work involved."

Bran hung, listening, suddenly afraid to go on. They might glimpse his feet if he tried to swing by.

"Don't you see the danger this puts us in?" the woman said. "Robert loves the man like a brother."

"Robert can barely stomach his brothers. Not that I blame him. Stannis would be enough to give anyone indigestion."

You should be Hand, Tywin's long held position, which Jaime deflects by cracking a joke. Cersei explains the danger they're in, and again Jaime cracks a joke.

 

The next charge.

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fight like Tyg

A charge probably better explained by a Tyrion quote.

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My brother, Jaime, thirsts for battle, not for power. He's run from every chance he's had to rule.

Better this one.

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His brother never untied a knot when he could slash it in two with his sword.

Jaime's a fighter, he would rather solve an issue by fighting where Tywin would puzzle it out.

 

Last and least there is Kevan.

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and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . .

Jaime has it in him to serve, but he is not so large and great as Tywin basically. On a lesser level, less of a leader.

Backed again in quote by Tyrion.

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My uncle Kevan would make a passably good regent if someone pressed the duty on him, but he will never reach for it. The gods shaped him to be a follower, not a leader." Well, the gods and my lord father.

 

Tyrion's quotes back Genna's quotes because like Genna Tyrion is still in the past with regards to Jaime. Jaime's changed/changing and they haven't been around him enough recently to know or realise.

After Genna's accusation of Jaime being unlike Tywin Jaime goes and does two very Tywin things to disprove flatly her accusations.

The first is taking Riverrun. In taking Riverrun he avoids a fight and puzzles out a way to do it peacefully. He does so by invoking Tywin's spirit and theme song, and answers Genna's quote straight.

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Silence followed his speech. Edmure sat in his bath. Pia clutched the clothing to her breasts. The singer tightened a string on his harp. Little Lew hollowed out a loaf of stale bread to make a trencher, pretending that he had not heard. With a trebuchet, Jaime thought. If his aunt had been there, would she still say Tyrion was Tywin's son?

Riverrun is Jaime untying a knot rather than slashing it with a sword.

One might say he didn't fight because he lost his hand or his oath to Cat. Not wrong, but it doesn't make false any of the above. They're just catalysts to bring about the character change. One may point out more pertinently that he wished to fight the Blackfish in combat, that it was only because the Blackfish refused that there was no fight. And that would be true, his change is incremental and he's not all the way there. But that he was raised to anger in that instance and tried to slash the knot then doesn't diminish the fact he still could have breached the walls and had an epic battle had he wished, but he forgoes that and solves things more neatly and efficiently. More Tywin like.

Fight like Tyg charge disproven.

 

The next thing Jaime does is go and sort the Brackens and Blackwoods out. In sorting it out Jaime takes hostages for the crown and it is all going well and easy and everyone is having a bit of fun with it.

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Lord Tytos did not attempt to dissuade him. "Hoster can be ready to depart within the hour."

He was. The boy met Jaime by the stables, with a bedroll slung over one shoulder and a bundle of scrolls beneath his arm. He could not have been any older than sixteen, yet he was even taller than his father, almost seven feet of legs and shins and elbows, a gangling, gawky boy with a cowlick. "Lord Commander. I'm your hostage, Hoster. Hos, they call me." He grinned.

Does he think this is a lark? "Pray, who are they?"

"My friends. My brothers."

"I am not your friend and I am not your brother." That cleaned the grin off the boy's face. Jaime turned to Lord Tytos. "My lord, let there be no misunderstanding here. Lord Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, Sandor Clegane, Brynden Tully, this woman Stoneheart … all these are outlaws and rebels, enemies to the king and all his leal subjects. If I should learn that you or yours are hiding them, protecting them, or assisting them in any way, I will not hesitate to send you your son's head. I hope you understand that. Understand this as well: I am not Ryman Frey."

"No." All trace of warmth had left Lord Blackwood's mouth. "I know who I am dealing with. Kingslayer."

Losing a hand, a father, son and lover might dampen one's sense of humour, and so it is for Jaime. No longer does Jaime laugh along like Gerion, this is serious stuff.

To hammer home the point Jaime is becoming like Tywin in the sense that Genna describes him GRRM had Tywin sorting out the Blackwoods and Brackens too.

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When Lord Tywin adjudicated a border dispute between House Blackwood and House Bracken in favor of the Blackwoods, His Grace overruled him and gave the disputed mill to Lord Bracken.

A mill being the prize once again.

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"Buckle, Woodhedge, Honeytree and all its hives." He was forgetting one. "Oh, and Crossbow Ridge."

"A mill," said Bracken. "I must have a mill."

"Lord's Mill."

 

The Kevan comparison is not one to disprove. Kevan and Tywin both served the realm, Jaime will too, it is the manner in which he leads, deeds he accomplishes, the inspiration he provides and respect he commands that will eclipse Kevan and land closer (surpass) to Tywin.

 

In summary Genna is wrong, she describes Jaime as he was but he is in the process of changing, and is no longer what she described. He is becoming the Tywin Lannister that she knew and described.

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Yep jamies character development is amazing

Hes repeatedly humbled and actualy grows from it

At the start hes kinda an arrogant manchild ! He loves cersei and all je wants to do is be a knight and bed his sis....he acts like tywin will live forever so is unambitious enjoying life , hes supremely confident because of his fathers rep,money and his own status as an alpha predator among other knights

When his hand and father are robbed from him,when hes been humbled in battle repeatedly he starts to become what his father wanted and not what he wanted himself to be(a paragon knight),he relies more and more on problem solving ,diplomacy and peoples outright fear that nothing is beneath him....just like tywin!!

 

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9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

The Kevan comparison is not one to disprove. Kevan and Tywin both served the realm, Jaime will too, it is the manner in which he leads, deeds he accomplishes, the inspiration he provides and respect he commands that will eclipse Kevan and land closer (surpass) to Tywin.

Tywin is not a role model. He rules his home territory with monsters like Gregor and the Tickler.

But I agree that Riverrun takes Jaime closer - Edmure and Riverrun lose the will to fight and become helpless victims; they surrender passively because Jaime horrifies them. This peace is not a good peace.

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Genna's remarks aren't really far off. He puts forward the notion he can still fight, and she buys that on its face, but his nature hasn't really changed. He still wants to please and please himself, he still wishes he could fight. But the loss of the latter has made him reassess the former, and now where he lived to please himself, he now lives to try and do something decent enough to make him feel like he did something good with his life -- even if his capabilities and options means he has to do some pretty indecent things to get it done. 

Genna's remark regarding Tyrion has to be about his brilliance, and perhaps his implacable spirit, features he shared with Tywin that neither Cersei nor Jaime do. Jaime may be becoming more like Tywin, but it's not driven by the same thirst for greatness and it's not supported by the same brilliance of intellect. 

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Genna's analysis is pretty spot on up to that point. I don't think we can expect her to overhaul her assessment based on changes Jaime might have only begun to make, or which Genna hasn't yet personally witnessed, or seen over a prolonged period of time. I do think Jaime's experiences over the first few books have caused him to have to go about things differently, though it's only a very recent thing, whereas I think the similarities between Tywin and Tyrion were shaped over years of their childhoods and young adult lives.

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8 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Genna's analysis is pretty spot on up to that point.

The point isn't that Genna is bad at character analysis, the point is her words taken by most as evidence of Jaime's and Tyrion's current character and future trajectory should not be used in that way, because its purpose is to be proven wrong, as Jaime does immediately in the same chapter and next.

10 hours ago, Ran said:

Genna's remark regarding Tyrion has to be about his brilliance, and perhaps his implacable spirit, features he shared with Tywin that neither Cersei nor Jaime do. Jaime may be becoming more like Tywin, but it's not driven by the same thirst for greatness and it's not supported by the same brilliance of intellect.

We don't have to guess at how she characterises Tywin because she articulates it, which I quoted. Jaime is becoming Tywin in the manner in which she sees Tywin, their protector. This stuff.

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Snow in the riverlands. If it was snowing here, it could well be snowing on Lannisport as well, and on King's Landing. Winter is marching south, and half our granaries are empty. Any crops still in the fields were doomed. There would be no more plantings, no more hopes of one last harvest. He found himself wondering what his father would do to feed the realm, before he remembered that Tywin Lannister was dead.

The arc is ultimately one of selfishness to servitude. Jaime condemned the realm to war through his selfish love of Cersei, his redemption (if he can be redeemed) is to become its greatest servant. Recall Tywin served the realm faithfully for decades all the while Aerys heaped shit on him. The reason he wouldn't marry Rhaegar to Cersei was that Tywin was his servant. The saying the King eats and Hand takes the shit in practice.

Jaime's role will be to take the shit so that no-one else has to and the realm may survive. Aerys is really the first example, he carried the dishonour alone so that millions may live. He has that in him, to do what leads to the best outcome regardless of the methods and how they reflect on him.

Riverrun is a return to character from the selfish hole he fell into with Cersei after Aerys. He didn't want to make that threat, and would rather have died fighting than have to carry it out, but there is more at stake than people thinking he's a cunt. So he carries the shit and forces himself to smile.

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"Talk. Aye." Lord Jonos sheathed his sword. He was not quite so tall as Jaime, but he was heavier, with thick shoulders and arms that would have made a blacksmith envious. Brown stubble covered his cheeks and chin. His eyes were brown as well, the anger in them poorly hidden. "You took me unawares, my lord. I was not told of your coming."

"And I seem to have prevented yours." Jaime smiled at the woman in the bed. She had one hand over her left breast and the other between her legs, which left her right breast exposed. Her nipples were darker than Cersei's and thrice the size. When she felt Jaime's gaze she covered her right nipple, but that revealed her mound. "Are all camp followers so modest?" he wondered. "If a man wants to sell his turnips, he needs to set them out."

Both the "prevented yours" and turnip-selling lines illustrate Jaime still has a bit of a wry sense of humour. As best I can tell, OP, the transformation you're describing hasn't happened quite yet. Maybe in TWOW.

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5 minutes ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

Both the "prevented yours" and turnip-selling lines illustrate Jaime still has a bit of a wry sense of humour. As best I can tell, OP, the transformation you're describing hasn't happened quite yet. Maybe in TWOW.

That he will never crack a joke again is hardly the point.

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16 hours ago, Ran said:

Genna's remarks aren't really far off. He puts forward the notion he can still fight, and she buys that on its face, but his nature hasn't really changed. He still wants to please and please himself, he still wishes he could fight. But the loss of the latter has made him reassess the former, and now where he lived to please himself, he now lives to try and do something decent enough to make him feel like he did something good with his life -- even if his capabilities and options means he has to do some pretty indecent things to get it done. 

Genna's remark regarding Tyrion has to be about his brilliance, and perhaps his implacable spirit, features he shared with Tywin that neither Cersei nor Jaime do. Jaime may be becoming more like Tywin, but it's not driven by the same thirst for greatness and it's not supported by the same brilliance of intellect. 

I always took her comparison of Tyrion to Tywin as an endorsement of his pragmatism/ruthless streak/chip on his shoulder. 

We don't know what Genna saw or learned of when Tyrion was growing up or as an adult. By that time, though, we've seen Tyrion bitter about being a dwarf, consolidating power (advancing agenda) however necessary, and protecting his family (eg Myrcella and Tommen).

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I'm gonna agree on Genna at this,
Her quote are about Jaime's personality since he was a child, and I think it's still true.

Gerion - Smile, it's still true, Jaime still smile and laugh quite a lot in Feast, while Tywin never did, Jaime even thinks how much Tywin likes to laugh, even though he doesn't.

Tyg - Fighting, Jaime is still a fighter, trying to learn how to fight with his left with Ilyn Payne., so we can assume that he plans of fighting more in the future, Tywin never fights, he commands battles and planned strategy, lifting sieges bloodlessly is not Tywin like, he'll probably assault or burn riverrun after his parley with blackfish failed, instead of threatening Edmure.

Kevan - Serve, in Feast, Jaime is still servant of the Iron Throne under Cersei and follow her commands like what Kevan is to Tywin..

The quote's purpose is tell Jaime that having fighting Tyrion is like having an enemy like Tywin.

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18 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

The point isn't that Genna is bad at character analysis, the point is her words taken by most as evidence of Jaime's and Tyrion's current character and future trajectory should not be used in that way, because its purpose is to be proven wrong, as Jaime does immediately in the same chapter and next.

I hadn't noticed that, and can only speak for myself. I would agree that Jaime is changing as a result of his journey and wound, and I'm not sure that Genna's statements to Jaime aren't playing a role as well. It would be pretty absurd to think that Genna's perception of Jaime up to now is an accurate indicator of what Jaime is going to be going forward or in the future.

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6 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I hadn't noticed that, and can only speak for myself. I would agree that Jaime is changing as a result of his journey and wound, and I'm not sure that Genna's statements to Jaime aren't playing a role as well. It would be pretty absurd to think that Genna's perception of Jaime up to now is an accurate indicator of what Jaime is going to be going forward or in the future.

The quote itself has an implied future/present element. She says we got no Tywin anymore, who to protect us now? Jaime says hey what about me? She says no you're not built for that.

But again, besides the point, as you can see in the post above, people want to take it as a correct determination of the characters current and future.

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I am pretty sure that GRRM's intent is indeed to turn Jaime into a successful leader and brilliant like Tywin was. GRRM even shows that in Jaime's first chapter in Feast:

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Cersei gave him a lingering look. "You know," she said, "for a moment you sounded quite like Father."

And this quote is not somewhere in the middle of the chapter, that's how the chapter ends, meaning that George specifically stresses on the fact that Jaime just acted very Tywin-like and that it is important for the future. Jaime's resolution of the Siege of Riverrun is a continuation of this idea.

Before the resolution, George presents the Siege as this quagmire where everyone is stuck with no end in sight, then he tells through Genna that Jaime is not Tywin and hence is not a problem solver. Then Jaime goes and solves the Riverrun with an absolute victory literally in one day. This fundamentally goes against Genna's assessment of Jaime. Also, I believe people don't give Jaime enough credit for Riverrun because almost everyone missed what actually happened there(I myself didn't until recently). What actually happened is that Jaime's manipulation of Edmure didn't start in the tent when he started to speak with him. It started literally when Jaime entered the Frey camp to get Edmure in the first place. And everything that happened there, including his bossy demeanor, his companions being the scary Ilyn Payne and Strongboar, his lesson about threats to Ryman Frey, all of it was for Edmure and Edmure only, so that later he would believe Jaime's threats that were to come while being under the impression of what Jaime did in the Frey camp. This is a spectacular example of manipulation and only further enforces the fact that at the point when Genna said that Jaime doesn't possess Tywin's talents, she was wrong.

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Yeah that's right. Genna says Edmure is soft of heart and head and Jaime thinks it is the Blackfish that is the problem, that gives us all the elements at play in Jaime's head as he then sets off to visit Edmure. The conversation with Edmure as they walk is Jaime determining how Edmure feels about his wife/child. For all Jaime knows Edmure could believe Roslin just an enemy Frey who played her part tricking him into the Red Wedding, and not care for her or the child. Jaime isn't just poking fun or making conversation, he's determining that his threat is going to have teeth.

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On 8/15/2018 at 4:19 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

I always took her comparison of Tyrion to Tywin as an endorsement of his pragmatism/ruthless streak/chip on his shoulder. 

We don't know what Genna saw or learned of when Tyrion was growing up or as an adult. By that time, though, we've seen Tyrion bitter about being a dwarf, consolidating power (advancing agenda) however necessary, and protecting his family (eg Myrcella and Tommen).

I agree with this, it's about ruthlessness. And more so, so does Jaime.

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Must you make me say the words? Pia was standing by the flap of the tent with her arms full of clothes. His squires were listening as well, and the singer. Let them hear, Jaime thought. Let the world hear. It makes no matter. He forced himself to smile, "You've seen our numbers, Edmure. You've seen the ladders, the towers, the trebuchets, the rams. If I speak the command, my coz will bridge your moat and break your gate. Hundreds will die, most of them your own. Your former bannermen will make up the first wave of attackers, so you'll start your day by killing the fathers and brothers of men who died for you at the Twins. The second wave will be Freys, I have no lack of those. My westermen will follow when your archers are short of arrows and your knights so weary they can hardly lift their blades. When the castle falls, all those inside will be put to the sword. Your herds will be butchered, your godswood will be felled, your keeps and towers will burn. I'll pull your walls down, and divert the Tumblestone over the ruins. By the time I'm done no man will ever know that a castle once stood here." Jaime got to his feet. "Your wife may whelp before that. You'll want your child, I expect. I'll send him to you when he's born. With a trebuchet."
Silence followed his speech. Edmure sat in his bath. Pia clutched the clothing to her breasts. The singer tightened a string on his harp. Little Lew hollowed out a loaf of stale bread to make a trencher, pretending that he had not heard. With a trebuchet, Jaime thought. If his aunt had been there, would she still say Tyrion was Tywin's son?

However I don't think Jaime is changing into Tywin at all. Rather he is slowly changing into the man he wanted to be and would have been without the malignant influence of Cersei. Arthur Dayne. Although the above quote sounded Tywin like, it it was almost certainly a bluff. He would die sooner than do that.

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Jaime turned Honor's head about for the long ride back to the Lannister siege lines. He could feel the eyes on him; the Tully men upon their battlements, the Freys across the river. If they are not blind, they'll all know he threw my offer in my teeth. He would need to storm the castle. Well, what's one more broken vow to the Kingslayer? Just more shit in the bucket. Jaime resolved to be the first man on the battlements. And with this golden hand of mine, most like the first to fall.

Also it is clear that Genna does not think he is becoming Tywin like after seeing him in action

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Jaime still had the garrison to deal with. To a man, they swore that they knew nothing of Ser Brynden's plans or where he might have gone. "They are lying," Emmon Frey insisted, but Jaime thought not. "If you share your plans with no one, no one can betray you," he pointed out. Lady Genna suggested that a few of the men might be put to the question. He refused. "I gave Edmure my word that if he yielded, the garrison could leave unharmed."

"That was chivalrous of you," his aunt said, "but it's strength that's needed here, not chivalry."

and

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The Tully garrison departed the next morning, stripped of all their arms and armor. Each man was allowed three days' food and the clothing on his back, after he swore a solemn oath never to take up arms against Lord Emmon or House Lannister. "If you're fortunate, one man in ten may keep that vow," Lady Genna said.
"Good. I'd sooner face nine men than ten. The tenth might have been the one who would have killed me."

"The other nine will kill you just as quick."

"Better that than die in bed." Or on the privy.

Doesn't sound very Tywin like. And even less Tywin like...

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Ask Edmure how chivalrous I am, thought Jaime. Ask him about the trebuchet. Somehow he did not think the maesters were like to confuse him with Prince Aemon the Dragonknight when they wrote their histories. Still, he felt curiously content. The war was all but won. Dragonstone had fallen and Storm's End would soon enough, he could not doubt, and Stannis was welcome to the Wall. The northmen would love him no more than the storm lords had. If Roose Bolton did not destroy him, winter would.

And he had done his own part here at Riverrun without actually ever taking up arms against the Starks or Tullys. Once he found the Blackfish, he would be free to return to King's Landing, where he belonged. My place is with my king. With my son. Would Tommen want to know that? The truth could cost the boy his throne. Would you sooner have a father or a chair, lad? Jaime wished he knew the answer.

Tywin in contrast is the Reynes of Castamere. This is Tywin

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For years afterward, Jon Connington told himself that he was not to blame, that he had done all that any man could do. His soldiers searched every hole and hovel, he offered pardons and rewards, he took hostages and hung them in crow cages and swore that they would have neither food nor drink until Robert was delivered to him. All to no avail. "Tywin Lannister himself could have done no more," he had insisted one night to Blackheart, during his first year of exile.

"There is where you're wrong," Myles Toyne had replied. "Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all. When the fires guttered out and only ash and cinders remained, he would have sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon. Later, when Stark and Tully turned up with their host, he would have offered pardons to the both of them, and they would have accepted and turned for home with their tails between their legs."

He was not wrong, Jon Connington reflected, leaning on the battlements of his forebears. I wanted the glory of slaying Robert in single combat, and I did not want the name of butcher. So Robert escaped me and cut down Rhaegar on the Trident. "I failed the father," he said, "but I will not fail the son."

 

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34 minutes ago, Makk said:

Also it is clear that Genna does not think he is becoming Tywin like after seeing him in action

Doesn't sound very Tywin like. And even less Tywin like...

Tywin in contrast is the Reynes of Castamere. This is Tywin

Genna doesn't stop to consider she could have been wrong, it wasn't a bluff and Jaime's actions are completely consistent with Tywin's philosophy as explained by the man himself.

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"Be quiet, Cersei. Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.

 

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Tywin, Tyrion, and Cersei all share an ambition and thirst for power that Jaime simply does not possess. He prefers knights and commoners to high lords and ladies, and gets more fulfillment out of helping the smallfolk than sitting on the high council. Right now, Jaime is trying to prove Genna wrong and act like Tywin's true heir, but I doubt he'll be able to keep that up for long, especially after he runs into Stoneheart.

My personal headcanon is that Jaime is the Lannister sibling who takes the most after his mother, Joanna. We know very little about Joanna at this point, but there was always something poignant about her appearing to Jaime in a vision rather than to Cersei or Tyrion. On the surface, those two would have made more thematic sense: Cersei lost her female figure when her mother died, and Tyrion has had to live with being blamed for her death. I don't think there was ever really a point where Jaime and Joanna were tied together thematically, yet she appears to him all the same. It makes me wonder if he gets some of his less traditionally Lannister-esque traits from her. 

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11 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Tywin, Tyrion, and Cersei all share an ambition and thirst for power that Jaime simply does not possess.

That much is correct, he is a reluctant Tywin. It will be him because there's no-one else.

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On 8/17/2018 at 6:35 AM, chrisdaw said:

Genna doesn't stop to consider she could have been wrong, it wasn't a bluff and Jaime's actions are completely consistent with Tywin's philosophy as explained by the man himself.

I actually disagree that it wasn't a bluff. When Jaime said the threat, he didn't even think about having to act on it, which is why the threat make no sense. The threat is literally Jaime saying the worst things that pop into his mind without any considerations whether he even sounds logical. And he did it because he knew Edmure's state of mind and that after seeing his little demonstration with the Freys he would believe him. The threat was designed to scare, not to be acted upon. It was absolutely a bluff.

When Jaime compares himself with Tywin after saying it, he doesn't mean about possibility to do it, he just feels dirty about threatening Edmure's family which he considers to be a completely unfair low blow which is against Jaime's principles. 

Whether Jaime would do Rains of Castamere on someone is irrelevant to Genna's comment though. She was not talking about Tywin's cruelty when she said that Jaime is not Tywin's son.

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His character is certainly changing, but I don't think he will ever be as cold as Tywin.  Going off with Brienne proves that in my eyes.  Tywin doesn't really care for that aspect of "honor" as Jaime clearly does, and I don't think loosing that is part of Jaime's arc, but rather that it will become a more prominent part of him.  I think Jaime will spend more time thinking about what is the right thing to do, something I highly doubt Tywin ever gave any thought.

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