US politics: No sub rosa Omarosa

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

I believe you have forgotten that enormous watershed event in US history, officially titled The War of the Rebellion.  Look at the numbers of the serving officers of the Federal army of the time who saw it otherwise, particularly Robert E. Lee.

Your faith that somewhere is at least some official, public institution that is going to save your, your family's and the nation's ass could almost be touching if wasn't helping to create such tragedy.  There is nothing that is public, official, elected or otherwise that isn't corrupted beyond redemption, if not for the sake of greed, for the sake of power, for the sake of hatred.  The only thing that can save us now, redeem us now, is you, is us, not any official entity.

 

Zorral,

You are assuming there was only one interpretation of the resignation of Southern Officers from the US Military.  There was great debate (whether it was in good faith or not is open to interpretation) about whether the seceding States had the power to do what they did in the "War of the Rebellion".  But, it was still officers showing their loyalty to the law as they understood it.  And, I believe it quite clearly opened a period of Civil War as I predicted such an action would here as well.  

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 hours ago, Bonnot OG said:

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/watch-trump-supporter-beat-social-distortion-singer-punk-show-protests-anti-trump-rant/

A conservative bigot (they all are), Trump supporter, got punched in the face at a punk show for being an entitled scumbag, by a guy that grew up playing punk rock in the late 70/s early 80s in Orange County California, where cops would try to use your head as a polo ball.

I've never been into Social Ds music - I can't say why, I just never got around to like them (musically), but that is just awesome.

On a more general note, I really don't understand conservative punkrock fans. I mean, that punk has a message that doesn't really correspond with their political leaning. I mean there were people offended/upset when the Dropkick Murphy's told Walker to drop dead and stop using their music during the GOP primary, there were some of their "fans" surprised/outraged that they have a social liberal leaning. I mean, I would've been surprised if they hadn't spoken up. 

In the immediate aftermath I skimmed a bit thru Fat Mike's (NoFX) twitter feed, and apparently there was some young Texan into his music, who essentially told him that Trump winning was a great and some other stuff. Mike was somewhat baffled when the fan in question's profile read something like conservative and love jesus. So his reaction was understandbly, why the f is that guy following me (of all people).

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

40 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Doesn't Flynn still have his clearance?

Funny thing about that...

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/reporter-wrecks-trumps-rationale-revoking-brennans-clearance-pointing-havent-revoked-flynns/

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Morpheus said:

Trump has also added Peter Strzok and Sally Yates to his list of pending security clearance removal. Sally Yates! The one who tried to warn them that Flynn was compromised.

 

2 hours ago, Mexal said:

This is very Trump administration. They're going to try to cut the budgets of those who are supposed to investigate wrongdoing in the government agencies, of which there is a ton.

 

So on the same day the Trump Administration is considering taking away the security clearance of the first whistle blower and defund the internal investigators. That's a next level way of screaming, "I'M GUILTY!"

[Martell Spy]

Polls: Democrats eroding GOP's turnout edge in midterms

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/15/politico-poll-midterms-voter-turnout-778398

Quote

 

A trio of new polls show that Democrats are cutting into the GOP's longstanding turnout advantage in midterm elections, another encouraging sign for the minority party's hopes of winning the House in November.

According to a POLITICO/Morning Consult poll released Wednesday, roughly two-thirds of voters, 66 percent, said they were “very motivated” to vote in this year’s elections — up significantly from 55 percent in May.

 

 

[Darth Richard II]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/how-three-conspiracy-theorists-took-q-sparked-qanon-n900531

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, lokisnow said:

yeah, unfortunately the only recourse to the vile provisions of our constitution that counts a rural vote a thousand times and an urban vote once is that all the big states have to split up, three Ohios, ten californias, the state of Manhattan, the state of Long Island. etc etc etc. 

of course this could lead to the legendary "mine shaft gap!" scenario, wherein rural areas split their rural states in reaction to big state splits because the rural states want to maintain their easy living (off all the extra money they get they don't earn that urban areas are forced to waste on them) and dictatorial grip on power. 

But eventually the splitting will come to a natural state of equilibrium, once every state has only three people residing in it, we should be able to finally discern the common ground of holy bipartisanship and realize we all want mostly the same things and finally get some policy shit accomplished. Kum Ba Yah, bitches.

Jokes aside, liberals would get their teeth kicked in if everyone tried this. You can't split up the major metropolises where Democrats are packed in. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

https://twitter.com/cynicsanonymous/status/1028892851076247552

[Martell Spy]

Kellyanne and George Conway Sound Pretty Goddamn Miserable

https://www.thecut.com/2018/08/kellyanne-conway-marriage-divided-by-trump-and-tweets.html

 

Quote

 

President Trump is not just harming the country, he’s harming his employees’ marriages. In a new Washington Postprofile of George and Kellyanne Conway, their wealth and political prominence barely register; the fact that they’re absolutely miserable is all that’s noticeable.

In a series of exchanges ranging from mild annoyance to pure disdain, it becomes clear that the love Kellyanne and George have for one another is being overshadowed for their very different opinions on Donald Trump. George hates Kellyanne’s job, and Kellyanne hate’s George’s tweets tweets

 

 

[Martell Spy]

How to Cure Corporate America’s Selfishness

Senator Elizabeth Warren has a simple idea for keeping big business accountable to the American public, not just shareholders.

https://newrepublic.com/article/150695/cure-corporate-americas-selfishness

Quote

On Wednesday, Senator Elizabeth Warren proposed a counterweight to this relatively recent phenomenon in American business. Her bill, the Accountable Capitalism Act, revolves around a simple idea: The government would grant corporations the right to exist through a public charter, and could use that power to put obligations on corporations to benefit the broader public rather than a small handful of shareholders

.

[Altherion]

6 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

https://newrepublic.com/article/150695/cure-corporate-americas-selfishness

This is an interesting idea, but the elites will fight this tooth and nail, especially this part:

Quote

A federal corporate charter, required for all companies with over $1 billion in annual revenue, would be granted through a new Office of United States Corporations in the Commerce Department.

...

Under the federal charter, companies would be required to consider the interests of workers, customers, communities, and society before making major decisions. Employees would elect at least 40 percent of all company directors, giving them representation on corporate boards. That would involve worker representatives in decisions like whether to engage in political spending, which would require sign-off from 75 percent of all directors and shareholders. Finally, executives who receive shares of stock as compensation would have to hold them for at least five years.

The only time something like this has a chance is at the height of a massive recession or similar financial crisis. At any other time (including now), it will be dismissed out of hand.

[Darth Richard II]

40 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

https://twitter.com/cynicsanonymous/status/1028892851076247552

[The Anti-Targ]

33 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Quote

A federal corporate charter, required for all companies with over $1 billion in annual revenue, would be granted through a new Office of United States Corporations in the Commerce Department.

...

Under the federal charter, companies would be required to consider the interests of workers, customers, communities, and society before making major decisions. Employees would elect at least 40 percent of all company directors, giving them representation on corporate boards. That would involve worker representatives in decisions like whether to engage in political spending, which would require sign-off from 75 percent of all directors and shareholders. Finally, executives who receive shares of stock as compensation would have to hold them for at least five years.

The only time something like this has a chance is at the height of a massive recession or similar financial crisis. At any other time (including now), it will be dismissed out of hand.

Shouldn't environment be in that list? Unless that's captured under "communities and society", though I would want to be it explicitly mentioned so that obligations weren't all anthropocentric. Environment should be recognised as having a value independent of any direct human interest.

It it unlikely to have any chance of succeeding even with a massive recession or financial crises, not with a big majority in one political party, and a substantial proportion in the other being ideologically, politically and personally invested in the existing corporate model.

 

[S John]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

https://twitter.com/cynicsanonymous/status/1028892851076247552

How I the world does he get people to sign a release?  I would never sign anything before I knew what was going to go down and I sure as hell wouldn’t sign one after I’d aggressively munched a fake dick in an anti- terrorism training exercise.  

 

[lokisnow]

West Virginia, with one corrupt SC judge, and a bunch of typical WASPy SC judges with overly HGTVed tastes, has decided to impeach the entire bipartisan elected bench, and once the judges are removed from office, party line replacement republicans will staff the entire court.

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-west-virginia-supreme-court-20180815-story.html

[Fragile Bird]

It's really weird, no, surreal, to watch the US melt away before your very eyes.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

 

3 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

 

2 hours ago, S John said:

How I the world does he get people to sign a release?  I would never sign anything before I knew what was going to go down and I sure as hell wouldn’t sign one after I’d aggressively munched a fake dick in an anti- terrorism training exercise.  

 

BECAUSE HE LOVES THE COCK!

The first time I saw that clip, it wasn't full screen so I didn't actually see the strap-on dildo until the moment he pounced on it (an apt description I think).  I had to shut it off and walk away as I was at work and I didn't want to have to explain uncontrollable, convulsing laughter to the rest of the office. 

I get how Sacha Baron Coen can get through this stuff, as he is brilliant at not breaking character, but how the hell does his crew not break down in hysterical laughter?

Please tell me that clown will be mercilessly mocked by his Perkins Sunday brunch / NRA / hunting lodge buddies.  He will forever quake in bowel shaking fear every time a new acquaintence squints at him and says, "You look familiar..." 

[OldGimletEye]

23 hours ago, SweetPea said:

I agree with much of what you said in your post. But I honestly don't see that Trump had such a big enabling, or emboldening effect on the far right. I think things were moving towards more and more polarization anyway. The left and the right moving further towards the fringes. The left also have their own "cuckservatives", the divide in the Democratic Party is getting more and more apparent each day. So yes, I think it's not that Trump simply enabled more extreme right-wing views, it's that those views were spreading anyway, and Trump capitalized on it. The same is happening in Europe. Are the newly elected populist parties popularizing these right-wing ideas, or is it the other way around? (or both)

(As a side note, I'm using terms like 'far right' and 'extreme' for the sake of discussion, even though I think it's not appropriate for many of the things you have in mind)

I think it's very misleading to say that simple racism was the primary reason. There was a lot more at play. People losing faith in corrupt politicians, the problems of the working class being ignored, growing social tensions, a broken immigration system... Trump promised to change those things. He promised tax cuts, he promised a stronger economy, more jobs, better infrastructure, a fix to immigration, draining the swamp, pulling the US out of useless foreign wars, and so on. He spoke the language of the common people and he promised change. That is why he was elected. Do you think some other Republican would have won if he simply spouted some racist stuff? No. Plus there were many people who voted for Trump not because they particularly liked him, but because they hated Clinton, so there's also that.

There are two reasons for that. One is that I think the far-right mostly emerges in response to the far left. Think of how many people have been pushed to the right because all they hear from the left is that they're evil racist bigots. The other reason is that people in this thread already provide ample criticism of the Republicans, so I might as well try and bring some balance to the discussion by calling out the problems on the left, which are largely ignored here.

1. Trump may not have created the far right. But he certainly has benefitted from it and was able to get elected because of it. And the reason he was able to win the Republican nomination was because for years the Republican Party has simply gone fucking crazy. And a point I have emphasized in these threads is that Trump is not some random event that just hit the Republican Party out of the blue, but rather is a result of a  Republican Party that has simply lost it's effing mind.
After the the disaster that was the Bush administration, where about every conservative cliche seemed to just blow up, conservatives didn't attempt to revalaute some of their prior beliefs, but instead just decided to lose their minds and then doubled down on their dog whistle politics, creating the perfect enviorement for some shyster like Trump to take over the Republican Party and win an election.
2. Saying that "but, but, Democrats have their own 'cuckservatives' too!'" is the kind of both sides horseshit that is absurd. Yes, it's true the Democratic Party, and those left of center, have their disagreements. It's true the progressive wing of the Democratic Party doesn't agree with "third way" Democrats. But the dispute between those groups is nothing like one group of the right complaining that another group of the right is just too timid in promoting white resenment politics. Suggesting that what goes on the right is similar too what goes on in left wing politics is just straining too hard to look all centristry and reasonable. It's a very bad comparison.

And let me make clear, that the current Republican Party as it stands today is utterly fucking useless. It has about no useful policy ideas that is benefical to the vast majority of this country. About the only thing it has is the usual supply side cliche's that don't work. And over the last two decades or so, it has been massively wrong about every major public policy issue. It was certainly completely wrong about the Iraq war and it was wrong with respect to about everything related to the GFC. It continues to preach inchorent nonsense with respect to healthcare. It's wrong about immigration. And it has nothing on racial or gender issues as it doesn't even want to talk about them in any serious manner.
The Democratic Party certainly isn't perfect. But at least it's capable of governing somewhat seriously and it's capable of putting together policy proposals that aren't completely abusrd.
In short, making statements or implying that the Democratic Party is just as bad as the Republican Party is a bunch of horseshit.
2. Saying that racism was the primary reason that enabled Trump to get elected isn't just some wild eyed left wing theorizing that has no basis in reality. There are a number of empirical studies that confirm it.
Now sure, we can parse some of those findings and dig into details about how other policy failures enabled Trump.  For instance, I do in fact believe that if trade policy with China had been handled better Trump may not be sitting in the white house today as he might not have one several midwestern states based on the work of David Autor, et al. But I'd note that policy failure is connected to issues of race as job losses in certain sectors seems to have increased racial resenment and tribalism.
The basic fact remains that racial resentment seems to have been the key reason that motivated the Trump vote. And suggesting that it was "just one factor among many" is misleading and not accurate, when in fact it was a significant leading reason. One that should be alarming.
3. The problem with straining too hard to look "fair and balanced" is you end up not being all that reasonable or objective or "fair and balanced".
For instance, saying Antifa makes the left just as bad as the right with Nazis is a load of bull. Say for instance you're a complete pacsifist and oppose any sort of violence. Assuming that, it does not follow that your conclusion would be Antifa is just as bad as Nazis.
Nazis believe in genocide, rampant militarism, and war. Antifa basically believes that liberal democracies aren't simply equipped to deal with a Nazi threat and other means are necessary to combat and stop that.
You might disagree with Antifa's methods. But it does not logically follow they are "just as bad" as Nazis. People that want to put on airs as a "resonable centrist" slip into a big error when they try to use Antifa as an example of how the left is just as bad as the right.
I don't mind centrism per se. But, I have a lot of contempt for fake ass or sorry ass centrism. Sorry ass centrism is just too quick to declare, "look it's both sides" without remotely trying to think through details or facts.
Straining too hard to look all reasonable and centristy leads to shit like the media not shutting up about Hillary's emails, making it look like their was something there, when there really wasn't.
A while back, I do recall getting to an argument with some poster about the Republican Party's insane take on monetary policy.  The poster agreed basically the Republican Party was being nuts, but in an attempt to look oh centristry and reasonable, then declared the left was just as bad as evidenced by Krugman's calls for fiscal spending, which according to that poster was evidently bad, as "very serious people" knew we had to worry about the defecit. But, that poster had really no clue about that the technocratic arguments involved, nor had they read Krugman's liquitidy trap paper. That in a nutshell is what sorry ass centism is about. It doesn't really seek to understand arguments, but just wants to declare it's both sides in order to look reasonable. But, it's not reasonable and it's a very sloppy way to argue.
4. I have been around the block, at least a couple of times. And every once awhile I've come across the following argument by conservatives, which is basically:
We know we've gone fuckin' nuts. But it's not our fault! The liberals made us do it!
I know the special conservative snowflake is a fragile creature. And anything that might challenge his "conservative values" might cause smoke to come out of his ears as he goes into full blown helmet fire mode.
But, seriously, conservatives need to stop blaming liberals for their own nutty horseshit. That's on them, not liberals. If conservatives have a disagreement with a liberal argument, then fine. Make an intelligent argument to rebut it. But don't go around saying the reason you decided to go completely bonkers is because liberals made you do it.
That the American right went and lost it's mind is their own doing. They need to stop blaming liberals for it.

[aceluby]

3 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

<snip>

Slow.  Fucking.  Clap.

Beautiful.

[Zorral]

16 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Zorral,

You are assuming there was only one interpretation of the resignation of Southern Officers from the US Military.  There was great debate (whether it was in good faith or not is open to interpretation) about whether the seceding States had the power to do what they did in the "War of the Rebellion".  But, it was still officers showing their loyalty to the law as they understood it.  And, I believe it quite clearly opened a period of Civil War as I predicted such an action would here as well.  

They did not. Read Lee's papers for one instance.  He put his state above loyalty to the Constitution.  He said so.