Brad Stark Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Black Crow said: I rather suspect, given the consistency of what he's said over the years, that GRRM knows exactly how this is going to end and that there are instructions to be opened in the event of his popping his clogs before he gets there to ensure that HIS story is finished the way way he wants it to, eg: for Jon Stark to become King of Winter rather than warming his bum on the Iron Throne as { } Targaryen In the meantime however appears seriously mired in getting the important characters in the right place at the right time to achieve HIS ending. But that may be something for Heresy 213 I hope this is the case. I'd hate to see him die leaving nothing other than a request to leave the series unfinished, and then the rights get sold to the highest bidder who finishes based on what HBO did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 10 hours ago, JNR said: I think there's at least one other option: he's always known, even in surprising detail, what he's doing, but (per interview responses), he is trying much too hard to live up to his press and deliver an ending that blows minds. Quote "I want to give them something terrific," he says. "What if I fuck it up at the end? What if I do a Lost? Then they'll come after me with pitchforks and torches." He said that seven years ago. Well, a perfect endgame just isn't going to happen. It probably can't even be defined objectively. IMO, he'd do much better simply to deliver a skilled and complete ending in which major character arcs are executed, the plot concludes, and all the major mysteries are resolved -- inside two (very large) books. He might worry that his ending wont live up to the hype that seems to have developed around it. Still, part of me thinks he likes toying with the fans a bit. It is probably a combination of several things. And I do have some sympathy for him if he fears disappointing his fan base, but he should trust that what he started with was pretty amazing, and how ever he chooses to end it would be pretty amazing, as well! But no ending... THAT is not amazing. And that goes for the show, as well! 4 hours ago, Black Crow said: I rather suspect, given the consistency of what he's said over the years, that GRRM knows exactly how this is going to end and that there are instructions to be opened in the event of his popping his clogs before he gets there to ensure that HIS story is finished the way way he wants it to, eg: for Jon Stark to become King of Winter rather than warming his bum on the Iron Throne as { } Targaryen In the meantime however appears seriously mired in getting the important characters in the right place at the right time to achieve HIS ending. I agree. Mired in a swamp of a story that has perhaps grown to big? I rather like Feast and Dance, but the pace of them in certainly different than the first three novels. What was once pretty concise and fast paced became a loose journey that seems to have grown broader with every chapter, both in thought and distance. My hope is that he can get his characters to where they need to be, and wrap what has been a pretty amazing story up. But I am not sure he can do it in two books. And that worries me. Until then, I will just nitpick my way through details that might otherwise have not seemed so important and fixate on minute words and phrases that certainly must mean something. They must, right? ETA: 2 hours ago, Brad Stark said: I'd hate to see him die leaving nothing other than a request to leave the series unfinished, and then the rights get sold to the highest bidder who finishes based on what HBO did. Truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirArthur Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, St Daga said: He might worry that his ending wont live up to the hype that seems to have developed around it. Of course he can't. The hype is one of the worst phenomena of our time, fueled by countless critics who make money out of constantly serving artificial pieced speculation to their fanbase. A fanbase who cannot be bothered to check the speculation for themself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, St Daga said: he should trust that what he started with was pretty amazing, and how ever he chooses to end it would be pretty amazing, as well! It's always been my strong opinion that what he intends is going to blow minds anyway. The question is whether a diehard gardener like GRRM can accept his new job... in architecture... which is to build a highly complex and detailed house inside a specific chunk of land -- a chunk that is exactly two books wide and two books deep. Unfortunately, the chapters from TWOW are not promising in this department. A business in this position -- for instance, a software company struggling with a new app rollout -- would do the obvious: get a world-class consultant. The problem is that such writers as have the architectural skills to help GRRM generally do not know, about his immense world and story, even 1% of what they'd need to know to make effective suggestions. And I doubt his pride would tolerate such consultation anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 21 hours ago, St Daga said: To me the story still seems focused at the end of Storm, but Feast and Dance are certainly different in detail, pace and cadence. Don't get me wrong, I love ASOS, it's one of my favorite books of all time. However, what ASOS does is instead of starting to wrap the story up, it makes the story bigger. Perhaps too big. And GRRM seems to be struggling in finding a way to bring this massive story (that I think grew in the telling) to a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said: 22 hours ago, St Daga said: To me the story still seems focused at the end of Storm, but Feast and Dance are certainly different in detail, pace and cadence. Don't get me wrong, I love ASOS, it's one of my favorite books of all time. However, what ASOS does is instead of starting to wrap the story up, it makes the story bigger. Perhaps too big. And GRRM seems to be struggling in finding a way to bring this massive story (that I think grew in the telling) to a conclusion. But wasn't that part of the story, the Red Wedding and it's fallout supposed to be the end of part one of his trilogy? It seems like the story should still be building at this point. Still, even if he intended the Red Wedding to be the end of the first book of a trilogy, the story will be massive, and probably bigger than he intended. Then he decided to skip his 5 year jump and decided to fill that time in with Jaime and Brienne riding around the riverlands, and Sam shooting arrows into the sea. Probably he should have picked up the story with Feast and Dance summed up in relatively few chapters at the start of the second part of his trilogy, but instead he filled that time in. I think that is where he derailed his own story! He could easily have Dany in the same place in five years, just taking her longer to muck stuff up in Meereen than it is currently taking her. Her dragons could grow, the direwolves could grow, Sam and Arya could be in training, Jon would have more time to piss the Night's Watch off and feel alienated from everything around him while the pressure of the wildlings pushing against the wall increases until it's at a boiling point. I think he had a hard time letting those characters go for the five year gap, however. He want's to tell their story in great detail. And I think the story did grow on it's own, and I can't even fault him for that, but then he needed to be honest with himself that wrapping things up would take more than just one more book, or two more or four more, or how ever many more it will take him. Perhaps he got bored with his own story, or as I suspect, that he finds the end that he wants to tell to painful to complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2008/07 Quote An interesting comment about the focus and pace of LOTR and ASOIAF. TLOTR starts slow and very focused, on a small part of a very large world, with things unfolding and the world getting bigger. He wanted to do something like that in ASOIAF, starting with a very tight focus on Winterfell drawing bigger and broader. The action is now at its broadest point, and it´s going to start narrowing again. This was reported after Dance was finished and was about to be sent to the publisher. Sounds like GRRM considers Dance the broadest point of the story. Oh joy. Only four books to go then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 6 hours ago, Feather Crystal said: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2008/07 Quote An interesting comment about the focus and pace of LOTR and ASOIAF. TLOTR starts slow and very focused, on a small part of a very large world, with things unfolding and the world getting bigger. He wanted to do something like that in ASOIAF, starting with a very tight focus on Winterfell drawing bigger and broader. The action is now at its broadest point, and it´s going to start narrowing again. This was reported after Dance was finished and was about to be sent to the publisher. Sounds like GRRM considers Dance the broadest point of the story. Oh joy. Only four books to go then. Honestly, nine has always felt like a realistic number to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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