What if there was no last hero or azor ahai?

[honorable men]

We keep hearing from these fire worshipers that azor ahai reborn... reborn? will return. for FIVE.THOUSAND.YEARS.

 

Do they even know where their enemy will emerge from? If the accounts of what happens beyond the wall is true, why havent these fire worshippers take a ship to all the way beyond the wall and fight the good fight?

[kissdbyfire]

8 minutes ago, honorable men said:

We keep hearing from these fire worshipers that azor ahai reborn... reborn? will return. for FIVE.THOUSAND.YEARS.

 

Do they even know where their enemy will emerge from? If the accounts of what happens beyond the wall is true, why havent these fire worshippers take a ship to all the way beyond the wall and fight the good fight?

Which accounts are you referring to? The red priests in Essos, like Moqorro and Benerro don't know anything. They have their prophecies, their beliefs and their dogmas but nothing specific on when/how/why. 

[honorable men]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Which accounts are you referring to? The red priests in Essos, like Moqorro and Benerro don't know anything. They have their prophecies, their beliefs and their dogmas but nothing specific on when/how/why. 

I thought they communicated by glass candles or visions and only can claim one azor ahai at a time. Besides its well known throughout the world that there is a gigantic wall in westeros that separates the 2 continents(?)

[kissdbyfire]

8 minutes ago, honorable men said:

I thought they communicated by glass candles or visions and only can claim one azor ahai at a time. Besides its well known throughout the world that there is a gigantic wall in westeros that separates the 2 continents(?)

We haven't seen or heard of a red priest using a glass candle or communicating via visions. I am sure they know about the Wall, but that doesn't really mean much in the current timeline, since the vast majority of characters don't believe the WWs are a threat (again). 

I imagine they created their own legends (AA/AAR) back in the day, and as is the case w/ this type of thing, they have prophecies about a "second coming", but that's as far as it goes. At least at the moment, and yes, I do expect that to change in the future. 

[honorable men]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

We haven't seen or heard of a red priest using a glass candle or communicating via visions. I am sure they know about the Wall, but that doesn't really mean much in the current timeline, since the vast majority of characters don't believe the WWs are a threat (again). 

I imagine they created their own legends (AA/AAR) back in the day, and as is the case w/ this type of thing, they have prophecies about a "second coming", but that's as far as it goes. At least at the moment, and yes, I do expect that to change in the future. 

But how do they know there was a first azor ahai?

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, honorable men said:

But how do they know there was a first azor ahai?

The same way the northerners have a tale/legend about a Last Hero. The Long Night covered the world (very likely). Once things got back to normal, each region created a tale to explain events, perhaps? Or there was a tale about a hero (LH), and different regions tweaked w/ this legend a bit to make it more palatable to their own tastes? We don't know for sure yet, but we do know there is a legend in Essos about a hero forging a special sword and defeating the LN/WWs/whatever brought both. 

[honorable men]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

The same way the northerners have a tale/legend about a Last Hero. The Long Night covered the world (very likely). Once things got back to normal, each region created a tale to explain events, perhaps? Or there was a tale about a hero (LH), and different regions tweaked w/ this legend a bit to make it more palatable to their own tastes? We don't know for sure yet, but we do know there is a legend in Essos about a hero forging a special sword and defeating the LN/WWs/whatever brought both. 

The first men didn't have a writing system, in 8000 years or whenever the Andals (aka Romans) came over, I wonder how many times it diverted from the truth. The truth is... there is no single savior. Will there be any savior? Sounds a bit far fetched tbh. If this Long Night lasted a generation, it would probably wipe out the entire civilization and mankind. The freezing cold alone would probably be the #1 killer

 

Anyways cheers

 

I just dont believe there was ever a azor ahai or last hero.

 

Long Live Lord Vordemort

[Tucu]

8 minutes ago, honorable men said:

The first men didn't have a writing system, in 8000 years or whenever the Andals (aka Romans) came over, I wonder how many times it diverted from the truth. The truth is... there is no single savior. Will there be any savior? Sounds a bit far fetched tbh. If this Long Night lasted a generation, it would probably wipe out the entire civilization and mankind. The freezing cold alone would probably be the #1 killer

 

Anyways cheers

 

I just dont believe there was ever a azor ahai or last hero.

 

Long Live Lord Vordemort

I think that there were maybe tens or hundredths of heroes. Anyone who was a leader of a group left standing when the Long Night ended was elevated to one. Everyone of them took the credit for ending it.

Just in Westeros we have a lot of caves/hollow hills where the survivors probably gathered and fought groups trying to take over their refuge. We are goint to see a repetition of this and things have already started with heroes like Sam the Slayer.

[kissdbyfire]

8 minutes ago, honorable men said:

The first men didn't have a writing system, in 8000 years or whenever the Andals (aka Romans) came over, I wonder how many times it diverted from the truth. The truth is... there is no single savior. Will there be any savior? Sounds a bit far fetched tbh. If this Long Night lasted a generation, it would probably wipe out the entire civilization and mankind. The freezing cold alone would probably be the #1 killer

 

Anyways cheers

 

I just dont believe there was ever a azor ahai or last hero.

 

Long Live Lord Vordemort

I think the LH is a northern legend from thousands of yrs back. Don't get me started on AA coz I'm really not at all into this Essosi legend, also from thousands of yrs back. Azor Ahai almost sounds like Arsehole Ahai, if you ask me.  

Now, I don't see what you're saying here has got to do w/ what you said in the OP?

[honorable men]

14 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I think the LH is a northern legend from thousands of yrs back. Don't get me started on AA coz I'm really not at all into this Essosi legend, also from thousands of yrs back. Azor Ahai almost sounds like Arsehole Ahai, if you ask me.  

Now, I don't see what you're saying here has got to do w/ what you said in the OP?

hmm good question

 

I have no good reply.

cheers

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, honorable men said:

hmm good question

 

I have no good reply.

cheers

Fair enough. Cheers.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The same way the northerners have a tale/legend about a Last Hero. The Long Night covered the world (very likely). Once things got back to normal, each region created a tale to explain events, perhaps? Or there was a tale about a hero (LH), and different regions tweaked w/ this legend a bit to make it more palatable to their own tastes? We don't know for sure yet, but we do know there is a legend in Essos about a hero forging a special sword and defeating the LN/WWs/whatever brought both. 

This is basically what one gets out of TWoIaF if one uses common sense. The various heroes of the various culture are worshiped as heroes who ended the Long Night and whatever calamities it brought to their cultures and lands, but there is no evidence that they were all one guy or that they even did end the Long Night. People may have just falsely attributed the return of light and warmth to something their (religious) leader/great hero did. 

The idea that the people of Yi Ti or Asshai or Sarnor the Rhoyne gave a rat's ass about what the First Men did in distant Westeros makes no sense at all, nor that the idea of one hero spread over the world in the earliest days.

If the Others were the ones responsible for the Long Night then the Last Hero (whoever that was and assuming he actually existed) was the one to bring back the dawn, but if the Others were just 'a symptom' of the Long Night (which I think is nonsense) then the Last Hero may only have defeated and aspect or effect of the Long Night.

I could also see the people from nearer Essos - especially the Rhoynar and perhaps even some proto-Valyrians - being involved in the fight against the Others, but we can be pretty sure, I think, that the Yi Tish or Asshai'i had no hand in any of that - and if they did anyway, they would have remained in Westeros to help build the Wall and the NW, etc.

The whole tale of the Rhoynar that everybody has to work together to bring back the sun is, I think, a pretty big hint as to how the Others were (and can be) defeated.

[dmfn]

2 hours ago, honorable men said:

The first men didn't have a writing system, in 8000 years or whenever the Andals (aka Romans) came over, I wonder how many times it diverted from the truth. The truth is... there is no single savior. Will there be any savior? Sounds a bit far fetched tbh. If this Long Night lasted a generation, it would probably wipe out the entire civilization and mankind. The freezing cold alone would probably be the #1 killer

 

Anyways cheers

 

I just dont believe there was ever a azor ahai or last hero.

 

Long Live Lord Vordemort

One thing that's always bothered me about these myths and legends is how twisted they get. 

For example the First Men had no writing. What about Oldtown and the freaks by the river that became the Citadel? They couldn't write? The maesters in the current timeline admit FM had runes. Runes are writing. Maybe not on paper, but that's a hell of a difference.

I'm sure the Long Night was a global event that led to a variety of similar sounding myths, ie flood myths in our world.

Unfortunately the cause of is more obscure than the solution to the LN. Fighting with swords changed global weather patterns from 40 years of winter and darkness to spring again?

[Bowen 747]

6 hours ago, honorable men said:

We keep hearing from these fire worshipers that azor ahai reborn... reborn? will return. for FIVE.THOUSAND.YEARS.

 

Do they even know where their enemy will emerge from? If the accounts of what happens beyond the wall is true, why havent these fire worshippers take a ship to all the way beyond the wall and fight the good fight?

Because the fire worshippers each have their own champion in mind.  Mellisandre thinks its Stannis.  Benerro and Moqorro think its Daenerys.  The ice faction have its Last Hero.  

[Starkz]

Daenerys is Azor Ahai if anyone is, Last Hero is Bran, PTWP is Jon.

[Shrykos]

This question is answered in two points:

There will be an Azor Ahai, because people will call someone it regardless of whether or not they strictly fit the bill. Who ever is a saviour in some way, and uses fire will probably be hailed as AA by multitudes of people. So the prophecy being true or not is irrelevant, it's what people want to make of it that counts. 

Secondly, I think its fair to say that style of ASOIAF, being that of fantasy troupes with a 'twist', will give us a hero story that is unconventional, but still a hero story. My guess is that we will have a handful of chosen ones. Dany and Jon for sure, and really I can see it being just them two, that way they represent fire and ice neatly, and keep a balance of gender which fits the story. 

[Megorova]

I think, that Azor Ahai was priest of R'hllor. In Davos' chapter it was said, that Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer in a temple, in a sacred flames, and he was forging it for 6 months. So my guess, is that, probably, when First Long Night was happening, other priests, that were also there, when AA forged his sword, when he sacrificed his wife, when he fought against the Others, they recorded all of it afterwards, on stone walls of their temple, and those records are still there. And that's the source of legends about Azor Ahai and First Long Night. And 5000 years ago someone, who was reading those records, has found there information, that Long Night and Azor Ahai will return again, and what omens will precede their coming. So even though the prophecy is 5000 years old, the info, on which it is based, is several thousands years older.