WHY ARYA WILL BE THE ONE TO KILL LADY STONEHEART

[WolfBitch]

Well, first I’d like to apologize for my grammar mistakes. English isn’t my mother tongue.

 

“She clutched tight at his hand. “Nothing will happen to you. Nothing. I could not stand it. They took Ned, and your sweet brothers. Sansa is married, Arya is lost, my father’s dead… if anything befell you, I would go mad, Robb. You are all I have left. You are all the north has left.”  – ASOS, Catelyn IV

 

 

In the Hindu tradition, the expression "Atithi Devo Bhava" represents a code of conduct which translates as "The guest is God." In Westeros, there is a similar conception as old as the First Men, and according to Mance Rayder, as sacred as a heart-tree. Legends that reflect the consequences of the violation of guest’s rights extend from beyond the Wall to the roynar culture. In the book Justice and Injustice of the North: Trials of Three Stark Lords, maester Egberd points out that only regicide is considered more sinful. Although the efficiency of "divine" decrees is debatable, it is speculated that the misfortune of the Lannister and Frey Houses elapsed after the Red Wedding was a result of the breaking of the laws of hospitality, and this includes the return of what’s suppose to be Catelyn.

 

"After Catelyn's resurrection, it was Lady Stoneheart who became a vindictive and ruthless assassin. In the sixth book I still write her. She's an important part of the whole book. "

- GRRM

 

The resurrection in George R.R Martin’s universe is approached in a different way from part of the modern fantasy, bringing more tragic effects than benign effects. Catelyn's body was stripped and thrown into the river as a mockery of the Tully’s funeral ritual, and upon being brought back by Beric Dondarrion, all traces of what had once been Catelyn Stark disappeared, emerging in her place the so-called Lady Stoneheart, a subversion of the devout mother and wife who now dedicates her existence to revenge. The question is: where does her story end?

 

It started with Arya removing from the river the already decaying corpse through Nymeria, something predicted to happen since the first chapters of A Game of Thrones:

 

"Maybe you should do the same, little sister. Marry Stark and Tully in your arms.”

"A wolf with a fish in its mouth?" The thought made her laugh. "

 

Later, in the third book, we have the Ghost of High Heart’s quote:

 

"I dreamed of a roaring river and a woman who was a fish. Dead she floated, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes opened, oh, I woke up terrified."

 

Nymeria follows the smell that takes her to her mother's body and pulls her out of the water. Looking at the corpse, Arya's wolf-self thinks "Rise, rise and eat and run with us." Not long afterwards Lord Beric found Catelyn's body lying, and the promise he swore cost him his life.

 

"Like Thoros, I do not have the power to bring your father back, but I can at least try to return you safely to your mother's arms.  

- Do you swear? - She asked him. Yoren also promised to take her home, but instead he’d let himself be killed.

- For my honor as a knight - said the lord of lightning.”

 

Half of Arya's story in Storm of Swords is summed up by the longing to find her family again and get to Riverrun. In the meantime, she wondered if Catelyn would accept her back because of her dirty, ragged state, since for Arya her mother had always wanted her to be like Sansa. Upon hearing of the release of Jaime Lannister, Arya discredits that her mother would do something like that for love. During her journey with Sandor Clegane, the concept of "gift of mercy" is introduced to her, where death can be seen as an act of mercy. In Arya's perception, death remains the instrument of justice. In the Faith of the Seven, the figure of the Mother is considered the supreme expression of mercy, and Lady Stoneheart is also known as  Mother Merciless, a title that connects with the identity of Mercy that Arya uses to kill Raff. The way revenge is addressed in the saga suggests a dark and endless path:

 

“Oberyn wanted vengeance for Elia. Now the three of you want vengeance for him. I have four daughters, I remind you. Your sisters. My Elia is fourteen, almost a woman. Obella is twelve, on the brink of maidenhood. They worship you, as Dorea and Loreza worship them. If you should die, must El and Obella seek vengeance for you, then Dorea and Loree for them? Is that how it goes, round and round forever? I ask again, where does it end?" Ellaria Sand laid her hands on the Mountain's head. "I saw your father die. Here is his killer. Can I take a skull to bed with me, to give me comfort in the night? Will it make me laugh, write me songs, care for me when I am old and sick?” - Ellaria Sand, ADWD

 

The despair of an orphan girl in an war environment created a copying mechanism so that she can do some justice. Arya's list carries specific names, while Stoneheart kills whoever is connected to the harm suffered by her family, with a clear ideological disparity. However, the crimes that succeeded against House Stark and the number of participants involved are countless, which emphasizes the vicious cycle commented on by Ellaria.

 

"But how would Arya and Stoneheart’s paths intersect? Arya is in Braavos with the Faceless Men!”

 

At the Balticon dinner in 2016, Martin confirmed that he intends to visit Arya and Gendry's relationship in the future.

“I’ll visit them again but I’m not spoiling anything to you. They’re still very young.”

 

Gendry is still a member of the Brotherhood, and Arya has unfinished business in the Riverlands, such as Nymeria's pack, a part of herself left in the Trident. Soon she will be leaving Braavos, which is described as a city of fogs, masks and secrets. Braavos, for Arya, represents the struggle against her own nature, the rejection of her identity and a mental haven, since the existence of the region was revealed to the world only after 111 years, a date that is celebrated with feasts and masks in the period of ten days; where at midnight on the tenth day, the Titan roars and all revelers remove their masks in union. Braavos is a place where trees do not grow, where there are no old gods of the North for whom Arya prayed, there she can not take root. All symbology in the character's narrative indicates that when she sails back to Westeros, it will be as Arya Stark, not under another name or using someone else’s face.

The textual importance of Arya and the Stoneheart is likely to be enormous. For Arya, it's the realization that her mother has always wanted her back with the frustration of seeing what she has become, as well as living up to Beric's promise. Throughout the books, Arya has often proved herself incapable of criticizing her family because of her pack mentality, as well as a strong sense of guilt over killing in self-defense, making it conflicting to witness the murder of innocents by what she would consider her mother. All this entails the most plausible fate, which would be the death of Stoneheart. Seeing the personification of revenge and understanding what it means, when faced with arbitrary and false judgments that go against all her conceptions, in noticing the miserable reality of this posthumous figure, Arya would find herself in the most challenging moment of her life, where she would finally understand what the "gift of mercy" is, where other aspects of her relationship with the Hound would come to light, as when she said "you should have saved my mother," and especially "do you remember where the heart is?" Since Stoneheart’s throat is already cut off. Of all the Stark children Arya is the one who has Ned’s eyes, the one who persisted to return to her mother, the who could prepare her body for an appropriate funeral and return the trout to its primordial home. From the river Arya took Catelyn, and to the river Arya will send her back.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I've always thought Arya being the one to kill Lady Stoneheart and put Cat to her final rest would be a good resolution for both of them, for many of the reasons you've listed.  It would teach Arya something about the true 'gift of mercy.'  It would let Cat know a child lives, she may even learn of more.  It would be hard for Arya, but I also think it would be right.  It may be the thing that saves her for a good future, as well. 

[The Fattest Leech]

Bookmarking this for later. 

“The guest is god”... right on. 

[Davjos]

Besides perhaps timeline issues, since Jaime and Brienne will meet LS soon and anything could happen from that meaning, since Jeyne Westerling is the subject of the prologue and Nymeria will likely show up there, I feel like most of the Riverland/LS story is on a faster track if you get what I'm saying. I don't see Arya leaving the HoBW and being in the Riverlands in a few months, but I do see LS' storyline being over rather soon after the suspected Red Wedding 2.0.
Other than that, I completely agree and would love to see this resolution for LS, with Arya becoming Arya again. 

Oh and one more thing, I'm not the biggest fan of the way you formatted the post hahaha.

[WolfBitch]

Well, George did say that Lady Stoneheart will be an important part of the >whole book< so I can see Arya leaving the HoBaW and meeting her. You just don’t create a zombie mother and not have her meeting one of her children. Besides, Catelyn probably was always meant to become a zombie. In the original plot she’d be killed by a White and likely rise as one of them. Arya was involved, since she was with Bran and Catelyn beyond the Wall, without Jaime or Brienne. Of course things changed but what would have more impact, the daughter with a revenge agenda that had a crucial part on Stoneheart’s resurrection killing the Un-Cat or Jaime/Brienne doing it? 

1 hour ago, Davjos said:

Besides perhaps timeline issues, since Jaime and Brienne will meet LS soon and anything could happen from that meaning, since Jeyne Westerling is the subject of the prologue and Nymeria will likely show up there, I feel like most of the Riverland/LS story is on a faster track if you get what I'm saying. I don't see Arya leaving the HoBW and being in the Riverlands in a few months, but I do see LS' storyline being over rather soon after the suspected Red Wedding 2.0.
Other than that, I completely agree and would love to see this resolution for LS, with Arya becoming Arya again. 

Oh and one more thing, I'm not the biggest fan of the way you formatted the post hahaha.

 

[chrisdaw]

Arya will be witness to it and probably play a part in it and possibly make the killing blow, or maybe Nymeria will rip SH apart. Arya putting Needle behind the cracked and crumbling mortared stone at the HBW might be foreshadowing of her drilling Needle into SH's head.

Arya will infiltrate the BwB in another face with an alias. She's going to be an outlaw like Wenda. And realise that life without the capacity for love, which is what Stoneheart now is, is no life at all.

It is going to be a battle and an event. Possibly the BWB folding in half and fighting itself.

Gendry will do extremely brave things and be noticed by Jaime/Brienne, and that will begin his road to becoming KG, and Arya falling in love with him. She is attracted to courage.

[WolfBitch]

I don’t think she’ll infiltrate. She’ll come back to Westeros as Arya.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Isn't LS already dead? Her resurrection required Beric's life and his never did. 

[WolfBitch]

6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Isn't LS already dead? Her resurrection required Beric's life and his never did. 

Catelyn is dead. Lady Stoneheart rose in her place as an avenging zombie. She was resurrected with the fire of R’hllor. And she’s creating a genocide in the Riverlands. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

Just now, WolfBitch said:

Catelyn is dead. Lady Stoneheart rose in her place as an avenging zombie. She was resurrected with the fire of R’hllor. And she’s creating a genocide in the Riverlands. 

Right that's my point. You can't kill the undead. 

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Arya did destroy LS or LS "died" when she sees her daughter(s) alive and well. Could also be Catelyn dies protecting them. 

Would that I had known how to wield an axe, perhaps I might have been able to protect them better.

The BWB might well be her 'axe.'

[chrisdaw]

19 minutes ago, WolfBitch said:

I don’t think she’ll infiltrate. She’ll come back to Westeros as Arya.

Nope, that's her whole arc, why she gets the face changing pretender ability, her story culminates in the choice between the freedoms being a faceless person allows her vs the rigid duties required of Arya Stark. And that decision isn't made until end game time.

For added drama there will be the question of if her family will still love her if they knew what she had done? So should she or should she not reveal herself to them. Will the new very judgemental Jon still call her lil sis and muss her hair? Unlikely that.

With the BWB she's going to be a new Wenda the White Fawn,

Quote

Sometimes she thought she might go back to Sharna's inn, if the floods hadn't washed it away. She could stay with Hot Pie, or maybe Lord Beric would find her there. Anguy would teach her to use a bow, and she could ride with Gendry and be an outlaw, like Wenda the White Fawn in the songs.

True identity and what happened to Wenda unknown. And when the BWB are destroyed/dissolved Arya will similarly disappear but just disregarding her outlaw persona. Though she will likely be carrying a sword that a very few, perhaps just one person, will recognise as Arya Stark's.

[WolfBitch]

Disagree. The Uncloaking of Uthero is the reflection of Arya taking off her mask and going back to Westeros. Braavos is described as a city of fogs and masks and secrets. Braavos represents the part of the Heroe’s Journey where the character finds himself (herself) again. And Arya never learned how to change her face. The Kindly Man himself said that this takes >years< to learn. If Arya’s to go to Westeros wearing other face she’d have to steal from the temple and they wouldn’t be okay with this. This is not the show. I personally think she’ll meet Justin Massey who was tasked to go to Braavos and he’ll probably bring Jeyne Poole with him) Jon wanted to send Arya to Braavos, plot twist). She’ll return to Saltpans but not as Nan, Salty, Mercy, Cat, Weasel or Beth, but as Arya. And also I don’t think Gendry will become KG only because he did “brave things”. Of course I agree Arya’s attracted to bravery, but Gendry is still a bastard and he wasn’t even an acknowledged bastard or son of a noble woman like his brother Edric, who was raised as a highborn. People are doubting of Aegon, and only Varys could have a proof of Gendry’s paternity, and I honestly can’t see Varys doing this.

[WolfBitch]

47 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Right that's my point. You can't kill the undead. 

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Arya did destroy LS or LS "died" when she sees her daughter(s) alive and well. Could also be Catelyn dies protecting them. 

Would that I had known how to wield an axe, perhaps I might have been able to protect them better.

The BWB might well be her 'axe.'

You actually can kill the undead. Beric died many times. Of course his situation was different, but that’s because Catelyn was found 3 days latter. Still, she can be killed. Arya will likely stick Needle in her stoneheart since her throat is already cut. That’s the Hound’s teaching where the heart is, because Arya almost always cut throats to kill. 

[chrisdaw]

46 minutes ago, WolfBitch said:

Disagree. The Uncloaking of Uthero is the reflection of Arya taking off her mask and going back to Westeros. Braavos is described as a city of fogs and masks and secrets. Braavos represents the part of the Heroe’s Journey where the character finds himself (herself) again. And Arya never learned how to change her face. The Kindly Man himself said that this takes >years< to learn. If Arya’s to go to Westeros wearing other face she’d have to steal from the temple and they wouldn’t be okay with this. This is not the show. I personally think she’ll meet Justin Massey who was tasked to go to Braavos and he’ll probably bring Jeyne Poole with him) Jon wanted to send Arya to Braavos, plot twist). She’ll return to Saltpans but not as Nan, Salty, Mercy, Cat, Weasel or Beth, but as Arya. And also I don’t think Gendry will become KG only because he did “brave things”. Of course I agree Arya’s attracted to bravery, but Gendry is still a bastard and he wasn’t even an acknowledged bastard or son of a noble woman like his brother Edric, who was raised as a highborn. People are doubting of Aegon, and only Varys could have a proof of Gendry’s paternity, and I honestly can’t see Varys doing this.

He hasn't invented this face changing ability with all the possibilities it offers to barely utilise it with a nothing side character. Arya is going to learn it and she's going to be using it, a lot. No this isn't the show, part of the point of which is it allowed him to do fantastical things that couldn't be put on screen. His seven novel mammoth series isn't going out understated. And there's no dramatic impact in an "unmasking" at this stage.

That Gendry is a bastard is half the point of him, she's going to fall in love with him (and become pregnant by him) and a faceless woman could very well have him (if he'd have her), but Arya Stark can not. Run away with her love or sacrifice him for family, honour and duty. Will Arya prove to be a better person than her aunt?

[Ygrain]

11 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I've always thought Arya being the one to kill Lady Stoneheart and put Cat to her final rest would be a good resolution for both of them, for many of the reasons you've listed.  It would teach Arya something about the true 'gift of mercy.'  It would let Cat know a child lives, she may even learn of more.  It would be hard for Arya, but I also think it would be right.  It may be the thing that saves her for a good future, as well. 

Very much agree to the bolded.

On the other hand, there is a huge unresolved issue between Cat and Jon, which, well... It would be wonderful atonement for Cat if she gave up her unlife to revive Jon. The cold preserves, so Jon has plenty of time to wait for her arrival

[Springwatch]

The major point is that Arya herself is on the path of vigilante vengeance. When she meets Stoneheart, she must see herself reflected, otherwise she has learned nothing.

So, seeing herself in Stoneheart, how can she kill her? How can she bring death to an unwilling victim - which is exactly what Stoneheart does?

[The Sleeper]

I have to disagree that Lady Stoneheart's killings are arbitrary or that her victims are innocent. The corpses that Brienne and Co encounter belonged to the men that raided Salt pans. Who you know, massacred and burned the town. The Freys apart from revenge are actively trying to hunt down and hang the BwB. The same is true for Tarly's men.

Considering the fact that the BwB is actively looking for Arya, gathering orphans at the Inn, placing Gendry there because he can recognizer Arya, taking back Robb's crown all clearly point that Lady Stoneheart's agenda extends beyond revenge. She looks to restore the Riverlands to Tully and Stark rule and looks for Arya to crown her as Robb's heir. 

I also don't see Arya having much of a problem with anything Lady Stoneheart's does. She is used to fighting stronger opponents through opportunistic means. Given her desensitisation to death she would also not have much of a problem with an undead mother at least compared to no mother at all. 

It is a very interesting prospect. Braavos is not that far at all from Westeros and the Riverlands and Arya and Lady Stoneheart's are such a potent fit. Martin could still throw us a curveball and have Sansa meet up with Stoneheart's. 

[WolfBitch]

10 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

I have to disagree that Lady Stoneheart's killings are arbitrary or that her victims are innocent. The corpses that Brienne and Co encounter belonged to the men that raided Salt pans. Who you know, massacred and burned the town. The Freys apart from revenge are actively trying to hunt down and hang the BwB. The same is true for Tarly's men.

Considering the fact that the BwB is actively looking for Arya, gathering orphans at the Inn, placing Gendry there because he can recognizer Arya, taking back Robb's crown all clearly point that Lady Stoneheart's agenda extends beyond revenge. She looks to restore the Riverlands to Tully and Stark rule and looks for Arya to crown her as Robb's heir. 

I also don't see Arya having much of a problem with anything Lady Stoneheart's does. She is used to fighting stronger opponents through opportunistic means. Given her desensitisation to death she would also not have much of a problem with an undead mother at least compared to no mother at all. 

It is a very interesting prospect. Braavos is not that far at all from Westeros and the Riverlands and Arya and Lady Stoneheart's are such a potent fit. Martin could still throw us a curveball and have Sansa meet up with Stoneheart's. 

Actually her killings are arbitrary. That’s why Brienne went to Jaime, because Stoneheart’s threatened to kill Podrick, who was only Tyrion’s squire, and a child of 12. Thoros himself said that the Brotherhood is not about justice anymore as they were before, they are all about blind vengeance. And Sansa probably won’t meet her. Her arc is in the Vale, Arya’s the one who has maaaany business unsolved at the Riverlands. The only thing I can imagine besides Arya is Bran seeing her through a vision. 

 

“After Catelyn’s resurrection, it was Lady Stoneheart who became a vengeful and merciless killer.”

- GRRM

 

And about Arya not having problems with this... well, you should read her chapters. She hates killing innocent people even for self defense. He has nightmares about it. She’s not a killing machine who’s totally ok with the murdering of children. 

[WolfBitch]

10 hours ago, Springwatch said:

The major point is that Arya herself is on the path of vigilante vengeance. When she meets Stoneheart, she must see herself reflected, otherwise she has learned nothing.

So, seeing herself in Stoneheart, how can she kill her? How can she bring death to an unwilling victim - which is exactly what Stoneheart does?

The major point of Arya is to recognize that this is not right. While she wants to do justice killing specific people who did terrible things, Stoneheart wants to kill anyone associated with the Freys and Lannisters, even the innocent. The biggest part of Arya’s list is based on people who’ve harmed others, not her; but the innocent. The thing she needs to understand is that this is something that would never end, just like Ellaria said.

[WolfBitch]

11 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Very much agree to the bolded.

On the other hand, there is a huge unresolved issue between Cat and Jon, which, well... It would be wonderful atonement for Cat if she gave up her unlife to revive Jon. The cold preserves, so Jon has plenty of time to wait for her arrival

Well, Catelyn died without knowing the truth about Jon’s paternity. She died with no love or consideration for him, and I don’t think is possible for Lady Stoneheart to develop those feelings at this point. Just like Lem said, all she wants is her children alive and to feed the ravens with corpses.