Dark Sister

[The Fattest Leech]

4 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Or it could be anywhere because 7 decades is a very long time 

You may be the best balloon popper in all of Westeros, but ya ain’t poppin’ This balloon of mine just yet!  

[Megorova]

4 hours ago, dmfn said:

Makes one wonder if Blackfyre is going to show up...

And who will claim Dark Sister?

Jon Snow dual weilding Valaryan steel blades like a mother fucking boss

Dark Sister - Dany. Blackfyre - fAegon. Lightbringer/Dawn of Daynes - Jon.

3 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

Well, fifty years is a long time (since he 'disappeared' in 252AC), a lot might happen to a sword at the Wall in that time. Or if he took it ranging with him

Of course he took it with him! They take their weapons everywhere they go. Though my guess, is that when he was binded to a tree, Shiera Seastar took the sword away. So now she has it, and later she will give it to Dany.

3 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

We still don't know how he ended up stuck in a tree, yet.

I think, that ASOIAF is loosely based on Arthurian legends. Secret Targaryen prince Jon is a parallel to King Arthur Pendragon, Bloodraven - Merlin, Shiera Seastar - mix of Merlin's two lovers, Morgana le Fey and the Lady of the Lake, Nimue. In Arthurian legends, it was Nimue, who has lead Merlin into a trap, and binded him to a tree, in a cave, and he went with her, even though he has realised, that it was a trap, and eventually he will die, locked in that cave. Bloodraven has mentioned to Bran, woman that he loved. Probably he loved her until the moment, when she has sacrificed him to the Weirwood, either for power, or for the greater good. My guess, is that currently she's living under aliase Quaithe, and that her wooden (weirwood) mask is lacquered with Bloodraven's blood, to strengthen with blood magic connection between Shiera and the Weirwood/Old Gods. And also she is the three-eyed crow, so that's her connection to Old Gods. Mor in Morgana is translated as the sea from Welsh. Shiera's name is translated as the Star of the sea. In Welsh mythology Morgana le Fey is sometimes associated with Crow Goddess Morrigan, the Phantom Queen, queen of shadows. Isn't it an obvious parallel to Shiera Seastar, who is confirmed to be a shadowbinder? -> Egg said in The Sworn Sword, that Lady Shiera is dancing with demons <- that's shadow magic, same as used by Mirri Maz Duur in AGOT; and in The Mystery Knight Bloodraven was using moonstone brooch, to hide his real identity, under shadow-mask of Maynard Plumm, same as Melisandre's ruby bracelet in ADWD, that made Mance to look like Rattleshirt. Moonstone is one of Shiera's birthstones (the others are emerald, sapphire, ruby, and pearl), her sign of Zodiac is Cancer, and her guardian planet is Moon. While Bloodraven is Leo, and his guardian planet is Sun. In Dothraki legends Sun is husband, and Moon is his wife. In Yi-Ti's legends about First Long Night, it was said, that the sun has dissapeared, because people has angered the Maiden-made-of-light (moon), and her husband, The Lion of Night. In many mythologies, lion is the symbol of Sun. So Bloodraven, who is an albino, is a white lion (from one of Dany's visions). In ADWD, in the beginning of Jon's first chapter, in his dream he was chased by moon, that was speaking to him, and he run away from her, towards "the cave of night where the sun has hidden" <- that's the Weirwood cave, in which Bloodraven/sun is hiding. It's a major hint, and readers has totally missed it. In combination with other hints all thru ASOIAF, side novels, and the World Book, it becomes obvious, what happened to Bloodraven, that it was Shiera, who has binded him to that tree.

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Longclaw always felt wrong for Jon. It has no symbolism, it is the Mormont’s sword, the Mormonts are nothing special and Jon reworking the Bear pommel into a Wolf felt weird. I figure Jorah gets the sword back and Jon gets Dark Sister.

Jon gets Dawn of Daynes, because Dawn is Lightbringer, and Jon is 1/8 Dayne, thru his great great grandmother, Queen Dyanna Dayne. Jon is new Azor Ahai, and next Sword of the Morning.

2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Yes, this was interesting. I think a lot of thought that Young Griff could have been a descendant of Bittersteel and Calla, so that sort of nips the speculation in the bud.

He and Varys still could be Blackfyre, thru line of Daemon's other daughter, or they could be descendants of Aerion Brightflame.

[White Ravens]

9 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Dark Sister - Dany. Blackfyre - fAegon. Lightbringer/Dawn of Daynes - Jon.

Jon gets Dawn of Daynes, because Dawn is Lightbringer, and Jon is 1/8 Dayne, thru his great great grandmother, Queen Dyanna Dayne. Jon is new Azor Ahai, and next Sword of the Morning.

He and Varys still could be Blackfyre, thru line of Daemon's other daughter, or they could be descendants of Aerion Brightflame.

Lightbringer was a sword of living fire in an ancient legend.  Dawn physically exists, is not made of living fire and has an origin story of it's own.  Dawn is Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star.

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

There is a significant reason why BR uses a weirwood bow!

Maybe because he is a greenseer, and half-Blackwood, and his mother's family at Raventree, had that huge dead Weirwood tree. So he made his weapon from branches of that tree, not just any random weirwood, and that way he has strengthen his connection to Old Gods, and source of his seer-power.

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

But if it’s a real sword then I feel Longclaw wouldn’t fit Jorah because the sword “skinchanged” from bear to wolf... wait, unless that implies that Jorah is now northern “compliant” to make up for his past transgressions? I dunno. That last part is just a caffeinated stream of thought. 

Jorah has pledged to serve to Dany. If she will marry with Jon, and Jon will be King of 7K, he can add direwolves to Targaryen dragons. So from then on, new sigil of royal family will be a mix. Thus, if Jorah's Valyrian steel sword will be with wolf pommel, it will still fit to him being servant of Queen Daenerys, wife of half-Stark.

[dmfn]

37 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Lightbringer was a sword of living fire in an ancient legend.  Dawn physically exists, is not made of living fire and has an origin story of it's own.  Dawn is Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star.

Dawn is Ice. 

Fallen star is a comet, comets are frozen.

[The Fattest Leech]

21 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Maybe because he is a greenseer, and half-Blackwood, and his mother's family at Raventree, had that huge dead Weirwood tree. So he made his weapon from branches of that tree, not just any random weirwood, and that way he has strengthen his connection to Old Gods, and source of his seer-power.

Yup. Which is why is falls flat in artwork when his bow isn’t the right color. Sigh... if you want something done right, gotta do it yourself 

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Jorah has pledged to serve to Dany. If she will marry with Jon, and Jon will be King of 7K, he can add direwolves to Targaryen dragons. So from then on, new sigil of royal family will be a mix. Thus, if Jorah's Valyrian steel sword will be with wolf pommel, it will still fit to him being servant of Queen Daenerys, wife of half-Stark.

This is where I differ greatly. Jon and Dany aren’t going to marry, and I highly doubt a romantic relationship at all. If they do, and that is a big IF, it won’t last long and will only bring trouble and we better start rooting for the Others now  Jon is the sun’s son. 

Spoiler

And I hope this idea of yours isn’t show based, because the show is cuckoo nonsense and has been since S3. I mean, they put everyone in the plot line and clothes of other book characters like no one would notice. Silly filler season 

 

[White Ravens]

4 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Dawn is Ice. 

Fallen star is a comet, comets are frozen.

Dawn is Dawn.

There are even real-life examples of swords being forged from large metallic meteorites.  Only massive asteroids can survive the heat generated when they plunge into the atmosphere.  Once a meteor lands it is called a meteorite but all meteorites are either rocky or metallic.  Comets, being made of frozen gasses, do not make it to the surface because the intense heat vaporizes them. 

[SirArthur]

3 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

I really hope George was simply telling porky pies on this one - Aegor and Calla having kids would just open up too many juicy possibilities, both for the main series and future Dunk and Egg novellas.

Maybe he will invent some now, just to play around with the idea. 

[dmfn]

4 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Dawn is Dawn.

There are even real-life examples of swords being forged from large metallic meteorites.  Only massive asteroids can survive the heat generated when they plunge into the atmosphere.  Once a meteor lands it is called a meteorite but all meteorites are either rocky or metallic.  Comets, being made of frozen gasses, do not make it to the surface because the intense heat vaporizes them. 

That's true, but my tinfoil meter goes off every time I think about Dawn

[SirArthur]

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have a feeling that BR did take the sword with him on his last ranging, so it’s in the cave. And if it’s in the cave, then chances are even higher now that what many like @Free Northman Reborn Suspect about Bran leaving that cave and hooking up to the Winterfell tree now seems greater. Meera and/or Jojen both go exploring the caves quite often. Bran too via Hodor, but I suspect Bran will not do that much longer. So a Reed finding the sword has good implications as well. 

Maybe the final weirder is Arya? I like the idea of Arya and Sansa both wielding the two parts of Ice, but who knows? 

Its nice to have some fresh news to speculate over. 

The trees know things ... just saying. The real question is just ... what is so great about this sword ? Yes, it is Valyrian steel, but somehow the wielder of Blackfyre didn't make it to the throne, so why would the wielder of Dark Sister have any claim ?

I also expect GRRM to surprise us. Dark Sister has so much Arya written all over it, that it will most likely not meet Arya. 

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

The trees know things ... just saying.

No doubt. Trees in all forms are the keepers of history. 

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The real question is just ... what is so great about this sword ? Yes, it is Valyrian steel, but somehow the wielder of Blackfyre didn't make it to the throne, so why would the wielder of Dark Sister have any claim ?

What I am thinking, and I know others have different ideas, is the connection to Visenya and magic. Not that the sword itself holds any other magic (aside from its forging), but maybe the symbolism of who takes it and how they work into the bigger picture. 

Martin has said that magic is increasing in the story... and stuff. 

ADDING: Visenya was described as the icy queen in that Aegon scenario. 

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I also expect GRRM to surprise us. Dark Sister has so much Arya written all over it, that it will most likely not meet Arya. 

I agree that Arya is one of a few prospects. One thing I don’t expect GRRM to do is set up a bait and switch for the reader. Not that it is what you said, just in general in the story. I feel as though if he sets up Arya( or whoever) then he will stick with it. 

[kissdbyfire]

I think it's in the cave or gone/lost. Bloodraven wouldn't go on a ranging - an no ordinary ranging to boot - w/o it. And if it is, it's very likely that it will be wielded by Meera at some point, but she won't necessarily keep it. 

[SirArthur]

19 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

No doubt. Trees in all forms are the keepers of history. 

What I am thinking, and I know others have different ideas, is the connection to Visenya and magic. Not that the sword itself holds any other magic (aside from its forging), but maybe the symbolism of who takes it and how they work into the bigger picture. 

Yeah, that was my thoughts regarding the swords in my first read. But since the melting of Ice I have thrown all that out of the window. If GRRM goes back to a Memory,Sorrow,Thorne style sword ritual, it is broken at this point. 

[Megorova]

42 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Lightbringer was a sword of living fire in an ancient legend.  Dawn physically exists, is not made of living fire and has an origin story of it's own.  Dawn is Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star.

Lightbringer was made from certain physical material. AA was tempering and reforging that material for three times. And after first two tries, the sword has broken. He took shards of it, and melted them again, and used for next forging.

Dawn was forged from meteorite ore. On the site, where that meteorite has fallen, was build Starfall of Daynes. In the legends it was said, that Dawn was forged from the heart of the fallen star. In the Bible the Devil was referred to as the fallen angel, Lucifer. From Wikipedia - "the Latin word lucifer (uncapitalized), meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing"." Wielder of Dawn is called the Sword of the Morning, like Arthur Dayne was. Another Dayne - Gerold, is called Darkstar. It's a hint, that the wielder of Dawn is the Morningstar. Jon was conceived on Christmas Eve at Starfall, and was born during autumnal equinox on September 22 or 23. So his sign of Zodiac is Gemini, and his guardian planet is Venus, the morning star. Which is all hints, that Jon is Azor Ahai, and that Dawn of Daynes is the Lightbringer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

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"How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!" - Isaiah 14:12.

Fallen star/Starfall, the Sword of the Morning, Dawn.

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As an adjective, the Latin word lucifer meant

"light-bringing" <- this

and was applied to the moon.^[7] As a noun, it meant "morning star", or, in Roman mythology, its divine personification, as indicated above under Classical mythology, or. in poetry, one day in a succession of days.^[7]

Isaiah 14:12 is not the only place where the Vulgate uses the word lucifer. It uses the same word four more times, in contexts where it clearly has no reference to a fallen angel: 2 Peter 1:19 (meaning "morning star"),

Job 11:17 ("the light of the morning"), Job 38:32 ("the signs of the zodiac")

and Psalms 110:3 ("the dawn").^[51] <- this

Lucifer is not the only expression that the Vulgate uses to speak of the morning star: three times it uses stella matutina: Sirach 50:6 (referring to the actual morning star), and Revelation 2:28 (of uncertain reference) and 22:16 (referring to Jesus).

In Latin, the word is applied to John the Baptist and is

used as a title of Jesus himself

in several early Christian hymns. The morning hymn Lucis largitor splendide of Hilary contains the line: "Tu verus mundi lucifer"

(you are the true light bringer of the world). <- and THIS

GRRM is aiming for the Holy Trinity - The Mother (Dany), The Son (Rhaego), and the Holy "Ghost" (Jon Snow). While fAegon is going to play a role of Antichrist. Jon, the Prince that was promosed VS fAegon, fake Messiah. Lightbringer VS Blackfyre.

[Megorova]

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Jon and Dany aren’t going to marry, and I highly doubt a romantic relationship at all. If they do, and that is a big IF, it won’t last long and will only bring trouble and we better start rooting for the Others now  Jon is the sun’s son. 

They so ARE! -> Based on the prophecy from the House of the Undying.

Blue flower on the wall of ice, in the section bride of fire, is Jon Snow. Two others from this section are Drogo and Hizdahr, Dany's husband number one, and husband number two. The Undying also said, that Dany will ride three mounts <- in my opinion, it means the other sort of stallions, if you get what I mean

Jon is not the sun's son, he is blue flower, one of Dany's three mounts/husbands, and the stone beast from smoking tower (Tower of Joy), from section of prophecy daughter of death.

<- Edit: that was actually from the slayer of lies section.

[Lady Anna]

5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It actually fits Martins own style to have Aegon/Griff actually be the real baby Aegon. Martin is no stranger to this scenario 

Yep, I genuinely think it would be way more interesting if he was the real deal, but what do I know

[dmfn]

31 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

Yep, I genuinely think it would be way more interesting if he was the real deal, but what do I know

I was afraid I was the only sucker in the world who wanted this to be true. I bought Varys' speech hook, line, and sinker. Why lie to a dying man?

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

They so ARE! -> Based on the prophecy from the House of the Undying.

Nope 

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Blue flower on the wall of ice, in the section bride of fire

 

Daenerys is wed to the flames. She drank from the cup of fire at the HotU. 

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, is Jon Snow. Two others from this section are Drogo and Hizdahr, Dany's husband number one, and husband number two. The Undying also said, that Dany will ride three mounts <- in my opinion, it means the other sort of stallions, if you get what I mean

I get it , but I don’t think this is what the books are leading up to. 

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Jon is not the sun's son, he is blue flower, one of Dany's three mounts/husbands, and the stone beast from smoking tower (Tower of Joy), from section of prophecy daughter of death.

Jon is the sun’s son. He is the son of “sun” Rhaegar, as is Aegon, but Jon is the one she needs to beware. Aegon is the mummers dragon she will burn for his betrayal. Besides, Dany doesn’t have a good history with “sweet” things. 

Aegon poses no real risk to Dany. Jon (and Bran) with their ice magic do. 

But, we shouldn’t let this dampen our excitement over this Dark Sister news 

[The Fattest Leech]

30 minutes ago, dmfn said:

I was afraid I was the only sucker in the world who wanted this to be true. I bought Varys' speech hook, line, and sinker. Why lie to a dying man?

I always wondered if Varys’s “for the children” actually meant the dragon babies and that maybe they actually were part of the plan all along. I dunno. Just an idea. 

[Starkz]

2 hours ago, Megorova said:

They so ARE! -> Based on the prophecy from the House of the Undying.

Blue flower on the wall of ice, in the section bride of fire, is Jon Snow. Two others from this section are Drogo and Hizdahr, Dany's husband number one, and husband number two. The Undying also said, that Dany will ride three mounts <- in my opinion, it means the other sort of stallions, if you get what I mean

Jon is not the sun's son, he is blue flower, one of Dany's three mounts/husbands, and the stone beast from smoking tower (Tower of Joy), from section of prophecy daughter of death.

1. A great stone beast takes wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadows. I don’t quite get the stone beast part, perhaps it being that he doesn’t know his true parentage? I think it has something to do with Aegon and Jon Con.