Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

[Cas Stark]

 I'll see where they are leading, but I am not really that interested in the construction of the lab, we know it gets built, we could have presumed that gus and mike were meticulous in the planning and construction.  

I also am assuming that there will be some other twist beyond kim takes her banking biz to a new firm, becomes a partner, does pro bono and stays in Albuquerque driving by Saul's offices and watching his commercials....

It was nice to see Chuck in the flashback.  

[DMC]

7 hours ago, RumHam said:

A few episodes back he wouldn't steal a hummel figure because the would be victims hadn't done Jimmy any wrong.

You think that's why he turned Jimmy down?  I took it as he didn't need to do small time jobs anymore and it wasn't worth the risk in the (extremely) off chance he got caught as it'd look bad to his new employer.  In terms of your overall question, I feel like Mike went into this with eyes wide open once he approached Gus to help him launder his money late last season. 

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

You think that's why he turned Jimmy down?  I took it as he didn't need to do small time jobs anymore and it wasn't worth the risk in the (extremely) off chance he got caught as it'd look bad to his new employer.  In terms of your overall question, I feel like Mike went into this with eyes wide open once he approached Gus to help him launder his money late last season. 

That was the impression I had, didn't he ask Jimmy what they had done to him?

[Morpheus]

53 minutes ago, RumHam said:

That was the impression I had, didn't he ask Jimmy what they had done to him?

I don’t think that had anything to do with a moral code on Mike’s part, I think he was just tryigng to assess where Jimmy was coming from and why he would take the risk. I think he turned it down partly because the money was small beans to him, but also because Jimmy is clearly in a bad place and it is best not to get involved with someone being reckless.

[Cas Stark]

one more thing added to my list of dislikes:  didn't like the Gus story of animal torture, it again to me feels off.  He has very, very good reasons to want vengeance against the cartel....and other than this, he has almost never used any more violence or cruelty than necessary..so turning him into an animal torturer was a strange move.  Instead of seeing more deeply into Gus like we do Mike....we're seeing there is nothing in there after all.  

[DMC]

3 hours ago, RumHam said:

That was the impression I had, didn't he ask Jimmy what they had done to him?

I don't remember, but regardless, what @Morpheus said.

[Nictarion]

4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

one more thing added to my list of dislikes:  didn't like the Gus story of animal torture, it again to me feels off.  He has very, very good reasons to want vengeance against the cartel....and other than this, he has almost never used any more violence or cruelty than necessary..so turning him into an animal torturer was a strange move.  Instead of seeing more deeply into Gus like we do Mike....we're seeing there is nothing in there after all.  

Yeah, that was weird. 

[DMC]

4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

one more thing added to my list of dislikes:  didn't like the Gus story of animal torture, it again to me feels off.  He has very, very good reasons to want vengeance against the cartel....and other than this, he has almost never used any more violence or cruelty than necessary..so turning him into an animal torturer was a strange move.  Instead of seeing more deeply into Gus like we do Mike....we're seeing there is nothing in there after all.  

I can empathize with the writers' problem - whatever they come up with for Gus is going to be severely criticized (hm, kinda like something else around here).  I thought it was fine in terms of some random backstory -- but I agree that with Gus there should not be any random backstory.  That's the appeal, and that's how it should stay.

[dbunting]

I thought the point they were trying to get across from the Gus story was his patience and that he has no forgiveness in him. Do him wrong and you will pay no matter how long it takes, which of course we know from BB. Gus saw the animal as wasteful and gluttonous, wasting the fruit that Gus worked so hard to cultivate, much like Hector swooping in and taking the territory Gus wanted.

Was nice seeing Jimmy back at the nail shop. 

So, is this the beginning of the end of Kim? Her wanting to make sure she breaks clean of Jimmy in a business sense? He obviously sees it as that. It was funny to here Jimmy say he was recently looking into criminal law also...except you know, criminally breaking the law and finding how to help others do it.

Pretty clear the beer German is not long for this world. He will be made an example of.

[DMC]

22 minutes ago, dbunting said:

So, is this the beginning of the end of Kim? Her wanting to make sure she breaks clean of Jimmy in a business sense?

The more Kim distances herself from Jimmy on her own accord, the more I think she might actually survive.  So in that regard, this was a very good episode.

[RumHam]

6 minutes ago, DMC said:

The more Kim distances herself from Jimmy on her own accord, the more I think she might actually survive.  So in that regard, this was a very good episode.

Why wouldn't she survive? I think the worst will be seeing her reaction to the events of the final season of breaking bad. Others have pointed out that her hometown is on the Nebraska border so she could conceivably visit and even represent Gene once he's captured. That cab driver from New Mexico  clearly recognized him. 

Personally I do want Gus's backstory because they hinted at it in Breaking Bad and left it dangling. Don Eladio tells Gus that he knows who he is. (one of pinochet's men?) To bring the character back for this show and not explain that would be weird. But the animal torture story didn't do anything for me either. 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Others have pointed out that her hometown is on the Nebraska border so she could conceivably visit and even represent Gene once he's captured.

I'm..not too optimistic about that possibility.  Seems a little too pat, if you will.

6 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Don Eladio tells Gus that he knows who he is. (one of pinochet's men?)

Indeed.  This is the mystery that, I think, should remain a mystery.  Gus pre-1986 is the unknown Gus.  Or is his name even Gus?  I've enjoyed watching this show with my father - and he always tells me "the next prequel should be what happened to Gus!"  But we know what happened to Gus after he came from Chile.  Everything beforehand should remain a mystery - it's better that way.  Bottomline, I don't want to know the origins of Gus Fring.  Ever.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Indeed.  This is the mystery that, I think, should remain a mystery.  Gus pre-1986 is the unknown Gus.  Or is his name even Gus?  I've enjoyed watching this show with my father - and he always tells me "the next prequel should be what happened to Gus!"  But we know what happened to Gus after he came from Chile.  Everything beforehand should remain a mystery - it's better that way.  Bottomline, I don't want to know the origins of Gus Fring.  Ever.

To me BCS is also a Mike and Gus prequel, it's as much their story as it is Sauls, so in my world we are already seeing the Gus origin story!

By saying Gus was one of Pinochets' men, it links him to the real life Chilean dictator ruling at that time. In the back of my head I swear I remember him being a interrogator or something? 

[red snow]

5 hours ago, dbunting said:

To me BCS is also a Mike and Gus prequel, it's as much their story as it is Sauls, so in my world we are already seeing the Gus origin story!

By saying Gus was one of Pinochets' men, it links him to the real life Chilean dictator ruling at that time. In the back of my head I swear I remember him being a interrogator or something? 

I think you might be conflating his role in "revolution" with his BB backstory?

I wonder if Kai will make it past the next episode? I'm surprised Mike didn't have him kicked out instantly? That said I'm getting a "kill the workers who build the tomb" vibe up this whole set up. I don't think any of them are actually getting out alive.

[The Last Storm]

I wonder if Mike thinks Gus is a bad person like Hector, or if Mike believes hes a good guy doing bad things, like himself, atleast at this point in the relationship.

[DMC]

7 hours ago, dbunting said:

To me BCS is also a Mike and Gus prequel, it's as much their story as it is Sauls, so in my world we are already seeing the Gus origin story!

By saying Gus was one of Pinochets' men, it links him to the real life Chilean dictator ruling at that time. In the back of my head I swear I remember him being a interrogator or something? 

I agree BCS is just as much Mike (and to a lesser extent Gus') story, but my point is we already knew Gus was one of Pinochet's men pre-1986 from Breaking Bad - and I prefer the mystery of both Mike and the DEA not being able to find anything on him beyond that assumption.

2 hours ago, red snow said:

I wonder if Kai will make it past the next episode? I'm surprised Mike didn't have him kicked out instantly?

LOL yeah I'd be surprised if BB Mike would've even let him finish pouring that beer.  "No more half measures."

[The Monkey]

3 hours ago, red snow said:

I think you might be conflating his role in "revolution" with his BB backstory?

I wonder if Kai will make it past the next episode? I'm surprised Mike didn't have him kicked out instantly? That said I'm getting a "kill the workers who build the tomb" vibe up this whole set up. I don't think any of them are actually getting out alive.

I don't know, I would hate if they did the "kill the workers"-twist. It's way too obvious, plus would have all their preparations of making the location of the lab unknown unnecessary. 

 

Whatever company/organisation the Germans are working for also ought to have some preparations in place to dissuade the criminals they work with from murdering them when the job is done.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, The Monkey said:

I don't know, I would hate if they did the "kill the workers"-twist. It's way too obvious, plus would have all their preparations of making the location of the lab unknown unnecessary. 

 

Whatever company/organisation the Germans are working for also ought to have some preparations in place to dissuade the criminals they work with from murdering them when the job is done.

Yes, too obvious.

Germans are probably somehow related to Madrigal.

[Le Cygne]

Interesting the turn they had Kim take this week.

Jimmy may not be honest with himself, but Kim is not being honest with herself, either. She has the Mesa Verde account because Jimmy broke the rules. Now she's using Mesa Verde to partner with the ones who defended the Sandpiper scammers of the elderly, and saying this gives her time to help people. It's a contradiction.

[Cas Stark]

Just now, Le Cygne said:

Interesting the turn they had Kim take this week.

Jimmy may not be honest with himself, but Kim is not being honest with herself, either. She has the Mesa Verde account because Jimmy broke the rules. Now she's using Mesa Verde to partner with the ones who defended the Sandpiper scammers of the elderly, and saying this gives her time to help people. It's a contradiction.

I agree, I'm just not loving most of what they have done with Kim this season.