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Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy


SpaceChampion

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3 hours ago, The Monkey said:

A terrific finale to the show's worst season (still great though). Like others who wrote here, I wish they'd give more screentime to Nachos; a tremendously fascinating character.

That shot with Mike shooting Werner gotta be the more gorgeous the show's ever had.

Agreed on all counts.  Mike shooting Werner was amazing.  Didn't seem real, seemed like something out of those Sin City movies.

Also agree with the consensus that this was a lull of a season, but still better than most everything on "television," and the finale was great.  Loved the cold open with Chuck actually showing Jimmy some brotherly love, loved Jimmy's desperate apology to the "shoplifter" applicant which forced him to confront his own status/situation, loved Mike and Lalo's cat and mouse game, and of course loved Jimmy calling an audible at the hearing and Kim's reaction after.

On the "believability" of Werner, I'd emphasize that those guys have been working - and thus isolated - for the better part of a year, right?  I don't know what I'd convince myself of if I had to do that.  Plus, I think Werner believed he had developed a good relationship with Mike, and in turn overestimated Mike's ability to give him a pass.  Anyway, that whole storyline was about Mike coming to grips with exactly who he's working for, it wasn't about the lab.  I agree it was an overused and even annoying tangent, but it made sense for Mike's arc this season.

36 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I can't see the show going more than 1 year though.

Well, no idea if it will or not, but I think it should last only one more season.  Maybe do split/super-sized season like BB.  Saul has officially taken over, and now all that's left is to see how he destroys Jimmy's life.  In that way, it's almost exactly on the trajectory of BB at the end of season 4.

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Odenkirk: "At least that’s what he told himself eventually, there’s no way I’m getting in. As you can see in that one speech he gives to that young girl. He’s really talking to himself from 10 years before and he’s telling himself give up. Don’t even try. And it’s really sad because it’s heartbreaking. I feel like he’s just talking to a younger version of himself and every vestige of goodness that is remaining inside him, he’s shouting it down in that speech and it kills him to do it. And it’s heartbreaking to him. It breaks his own heart, too."

Gould: "It’s wonderful how upbeat he is there... It seems like it gives him a feeling of power. It gives him a feeling of effectiveness. He’s intoxicated at the end of the episode, it’s a champagne moment for him. When you see Kim’s reaction, there’s so much to it. There’s concern, there’s confusion, but I get the feeling when I watched the scene that Kim maybe having a premonition, it almost feels like in her gut, she feels where this is going and maybe that’s not so good...

"I think Jimmy’s story is a very different one from Walt’s because Walt was marked for death the first time we met him and as I said before where there’s life, there’s hope. Maybe the man who started off as Slippin’ Jimmy and James McGill and Saul Goodman and Gene, maybe he still has a shot at redemption. If we can find a way to tell that story, I think it’s a worthwhile story to tell."

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/better-call-saul-finale-season-4-bob-odenkirk-1202970629/

I'd sure like to see the Gene story. Something's gotta give, he can't go on that way...

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Yeah, I was really hoping for another Gene scene in the finale. Maybe something that explained that opening we got set during Breaking Bad this season where Francesca was told to call a number on a certain date. I agree with pretty much everything you guys have been saying. Lalo seems interesting but Nacho needs to stop disappearing for long stretches. I dunno what Lalo really got from his phone conversation with Werner. He must be dead by the events of Salud since Hector is said to be the last Salamanca. (I wonder if that other Salamanca who Jessie killed was his son?) I'm guessing we'll get a lot of Lalo vs. Mike next year ending with Mike taking him out. 

I enjoyed the season but I also dunno how they plotted this all out on paper and thought "that sounds awesome." If they wanted they probably could have covered 90% of this season with one of their montages. But hey I'm not gonna complain about more episodes of the show. 

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I found that really affecting, though in much more of a depressing/tragic way than I expected. Werner's fate wasn't that surprising, but like so many previous BB characters resulted as his decisions trapped him with few other endgames. 

Kim's expression as she realizes that Jimmy really is that "insincere" was heartbreaking. 

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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, I missed seeing Nacho in the finale. Maybe the Mike and Nacho stories could have converged, then circled back to Jimmy's story next season.

Yeah, they are so detail oriented, I don't get why they don't have a "story" for him.  of course I've always been afraid Mike would have to kill him in the end...but maybe not, maybe he's the BCS "Jesse" and he gets out in the end.  It would be nice for SOMEONE in this universe to get redemption.  

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah, they are so detail oriented, I don't get why they don't have a "story" for him.  of course I've always been afraid Mike would have to kill him in the end...but maybe not, maybe he's the BCS "Jesse" and he gets out in the end.  It would be nice for SOMEONE in this universe to get redemption.  

My biggest fear is his father dies. It would be interesting to see what Mike would do if he caught them escaping to Canada. I would hope he'd let them go, Gus be damned.

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1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

My biggest fear is his father dies. It would be interesting to see what Mike would do if he caught them escaping to Canada. I would hope he'd let them go, Gus be damned.

No half measures! 

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I was fishing around on Google to see if there were any reasons Michael Mando may not have been available for the last few episodes but film,game and TV wise nothing stood out besides a film called "the hummingbird bird contract" which might have clashed with this season's filming. He might be working on something that hasn't been announced. Also didn't realise he's a writer/director too.

Like others have said it just seems strange for his story to be left dangling from a writing team that's so meticulous otherwise.

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Try to touch on a few things and comments others have had without quoting the hell out of the thread.

When watching the scene where Jimmy gives his Chuck speech we see Kims' reaction to it and wonder how she didn't know he was lying. We know he becomes Saul, she doesn't. At this point in time she still believes he wants to be a respected lawyer, so our view of the scene is totally different than hers.

The scene where Mike shoots Werner, I had same thought, seeing the light behind the ground/scenery was pretty cool. Also, Mike had to do it since it's his fault Werner got so comfortable. There were plenty of warning signs that Werner would never be able to keep quiet about this job. Also feel pretty good about the feeling I had about the phone conversation between Werner and his wife, it felt to me like there were codes in there and turns out Mike felt the same and there were. The question is, how many times did Werner sneak out, just two? Once where he found the money gram place with the fliers and and then to collect the money and meet her?

Lalo actually has a lot of information. He knows about the chicken farm, he knows about a major excavation and large concrete walls needing to be poured. He knows Mike is someone high up in Gus' organization. If he was to keep following Mike he will find the laundry place and equipment and figure out whats being built there. 

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3 hours ago, dbunting said:

Try to touch on a few things and comments others have had without quoting the hell out of the thread.

When watching the scene where Jimmy gives his Chuck speech we see Kims' reaction to it and wonder how she didn't know he was lying. We know he becomes Saul, she doesn't. At this point in time she still believes he wants to be a respected lawyer, so our view of the scene is totally different than hers.

The scene where Mike shoots Werner, I had same thought, seeing the light behind the ground/scenery was pretty cool. Also, Mike had to do it since it's his fault Werner got so comfortable. There were plenty of warning signs that Werner would never be able to keep quiet about this job. Also feel pretty good about the feeling I had about the phone conversation between Werner and his wife, it felt to me like there were codes in there and turns out Mike felt the same and there were. The question is, how many times did Werner sneak out, just two? Once where he found the money gram place with the fliers and and then to collect the money and meet her?

Lalo actually has a lot of information. He knows about the chicken farm, he knows about a major excavation and large concrete walls needing to be poured. He knows Mike is someone high up in Gus' organization. If he was to keep following Mike he will find the laundry place and equipment and figure out whats being built there. 

Yes.  Mike is definitely going to have to kill Lalo, and this may be the reason why the lab suspends it's operation for a few years.  

Good point about kim.

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Just now, Dragon in the North said:

In Breaking Bad, doesn’t Saul say, “Lalo didn’t send you,” indicating he’s still alive?

He does but that just means Saul think's he's still alive. At one point Gus taunts Hector that Jessie killed the last Salamanca other than him. So Lalo should be dead by about halfway through season four of Breaking Bad. So it is technically possible he was still alive when we first meet Saul and he made that comment. 

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3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

He does but that just means Saul think's he's still alive. At one point Gus taunts Hector that Jessie killed the last Salamanca other than him. So Lalo should be dead by about halfway through season four of Breaking Bad. So it is technically possible he was still alive when we first meet Saul and he made that comment. 

Oh yeah, that’s true. Maybe he died offscreen at the pool party.

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4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Lalo actually has a lot of information. He knows about the chicken farm, he knows about a major excavation and large concrete walls needing to be poured. He knows Mike is someone high up in Gus' organization. If he was to keep following Mike he will find the laundry place and equipment and figure out whats being built there. 

Yeah but Lalo already knows that Gus is involved in illegal activities. He knows Gus is getting some of his meth from local cooks. In fact Bolsa told Gus to do just that when he thought moving it across the border was too risky. It's really only the scale of this construction project that should set off alarm bells if someone in the cartel is really thinking about it. Just because Gus is doing secretive illegal construction work doesn't really suggest he's trying to pull one over on the cartel or the Salamancas specifically. 

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13 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Yeah but Lalo already knows that Gus is involved in illegal activities. He knows Gus is getting some of his meth from local cooks. In fact Bolsa told Gus to do just that when he thought moving it across the border was too risky. It's really only the scale of this construction project that should set off alarm bells if someone in the cartel is really thinking about it. Just because Gus is doing secretive illegal construction work doesn't really suggest he's trying to pull one over on the cartel or the Salamancas specifically. 

Looking at it from the cartels POV yes. But this is a Salamanca POV we are seeing and they didn't like Gus, Hector hated him. It's not a stretch to think Hector communicated his views on Gus to his family, and by doing so making them suspicious of him.

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3 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Oh yeah, that’s true. Maybe he died offscreen at the pool party.

I'd think if Lalo died at the pool party Gus would have mentioned it when taunting Hector as he did about the death and killer of Hector's grandson Joaquin.

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Also he's clearly been invented for this show so it stands to reason he'll be killed onscreen. By Mike or maybe even Nacho. Lalo was just a name when they were making Breaking Bad. The only question is when he'll die. It could be that he's alive and putting pressure on Saul during the timeframe of the first couple Breaking Bad seasons. 

I'm still hoping for some overlap between BCS and at least the first couple seasons of Breaking Bad. Saul was Emilio's lawyer after all and he gets off unexpectedly offscreen during the first episode of Breaking Bad. 

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