Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

[Minsc]

11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah, maybe.  A more charitable read would be that she finally sees how destructive Jimmy's antics can be, and how uncontrollable he is once he gets going, but then, she should have seen that with the results of the Chuck scam.  I am definitely much less sympathetic to Kim than I once was, but she can still reel herself back in and learn some hard lessons.  Jimmy, even if we didn't have BB to tell us his future, is already a lost cause.

Only even ignoring the Chuck issue, Jimmy has given plenty of evidence of his destructiveness that is willing to engage in.  For example, wasn't his initial plan to help Huell basically to repeatedly attack and harass the cop to make him look bad?  Kim's objections and is generally upset when there is push back against her.

[SeanF]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I hope that isn't the case because that would mean that Kim has completely lost all perspective, she's always had some blind spots where Jimmy is concerned, but marrying him to protect him from himself would be insane and then she would 100% be the author of her own destruction, in whatever form it comes. But, you are probably right that is her reasoning.

I remain sympathetic to Kim, but her story is like watching a slow motion car crash.

[Cas Stark]

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I remain sympathetic to Kim, but her story is like watching a slow motion car crash.

I go back and forth a bit.  I was pretty disgusted by her plan to screw her own client, who is responsible for her ability to do her pro bono work, who gave her a chance and who has done nothing wrong... Acker wasn't really getting screwed, he was getting fair market value for his property plus a little something extra.  That isn't a bad deal.  So on that level, what they did to Kevin is worse than what they did to Chuck, because at least there was the history of animosity and passive aggressive withholding of any praise or respect that you could conceivably see played some part in Jimmy's con artist persona.  Kevin is completely completely innocent. But, Kim is still salvageable where Jimmy no longer is.

[Minsc]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I go back and forth a bit.  I was pretty disgusted by her plan to screw her own client, who is responsible for her ability to do her pro bono work, who gave her a chance and who has done nothing wrong... Acker wasn't really getting screwed, he was getting fair market value for his property plus a little something extra.  That isn't a bad deal.  So on that level, what they did to Kevin is worse than what they did to Chuck, because at least there was the history of animosity and passive aggressive withholding of any praise or respect that you could conceivably see played some part in Jimmy's con artist persona.  Kevin is completely completely innocent. But, Kim is still salvageable where Jimmy no longer is.

She is doing to Kevin what she charged Chuck was doing to Jimmy. 

[SeanF]

6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I go back and forth a bit.  I was pretty disgusted by her plan to screw her own client, who is responsible for her ability to do her pro bono work, who gave her a chance and who has done nothing wrong... Acker wasn't really getting screwed, he was getting fair market value for his property plus a little something extra.  That isn't a bad deal.  So on that level, what they did to Kevin is worse than what they did to Chuck, because at least there was the history of animosity and passive aggressive withholding of any praise or respect that you could conceivably see played some part in Jimmy's con artist persona.  Kevin is completely completely innocent. But, Kim is still salvageable where Jimmy no longer is.

If the government purchases my property compulsorily, in the UK, I'll get market value plus 10%, plus my professional fees and any out of pocket expenses paid.  So, no Acker was not being offered a bad deal.

[Cas Stark]

6 minutes ago, SeanF said:

If the government purchases my property compulsorily, in the UK, I'll get market value plus 10%, plus my professional fees and any out of pocket expenses paid.  So, no Acker was not being offered a bad deal.

Which is why I love this show, it never takes the easy out, never creates a cardboard villain, even the Salamancas, while more card boardish, still have plenty of nuance.  But, for Jimmy's story, Chuck was a very well drawn character, realistic, full of bad and good impulses, and this situation with Acker is similarly very nuanced, it is no simple tale of a big bad bank v. little guy.  

[SeanF]

6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Which is why I love this show, it never takes the easy out, never creates a cardboard villain, even the Salamancas, while more card boardish, still have plenty of nuance.  But, for Jimmy's story, Chuck was a very well drawn character, realistic, full of bad and good impulses, and this situation with Acker is similarly very nuanced, it is no simple tale of a big bad bank v. little guy.  

It must be one of the best series on television.

It is everything that the Abomination was not, in later seasons.

[Cas Stark]

22 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It must be one of the best series on television.

It is everything that the Abomination was not, in later seasons.

Gilligan is everything everyone thought the GOT showrunners were [but they weren't]:  attention to detail, hugely creative directorial style, wonderful writing and dialogue, character driven work, and knows how to 'subvert expectations' without pulling something out of his ass at the last minute.  

[Ran]

Just saw the episode. Terrific, and the complexity it gives to Kim is amazing. Rhea Seahorn is such a great actress.

Little-mentioned in the discussion of Kim is the opening with her mother. I think taking that into account directs interpretations a bit. 

Kim is going to destroy herself, IMO, if she doesn't get away from Jimmy.

[RumHam]

God Jimmy is such a shit, but I lost it at the one two punch of "Bare Penis / my bank was funding terrorists!"

Oh and as bad as the bank stuff was I felt worse for poor Howard. What the hell Jimmy.

[Cas Stark]

8 minutes ago, RumHam said:

God Jimmy is such a shit, but I lost it at the one two punch of "Bare Penis / my bank was funding terrorists!"

Oh and as bad as the bank stuff was I felt worse for poor Howard. What the hell Jimmy.

Yes, he's almost wholly unsympathetic now.  

[Sverna]

7 hours ago, SeanF said:

Is this because in some US jurisdictions, a wife can't give evidence against her husband?

That’s an interesting theory and something to explore. 

[Relic]

14 hours ago, Ran said:

Just saw the episode. Terrific, and the complexity it gives to Kim is amazing. Rhea Seahorn is such a great actress.

Little-mentioned in the discussion of Kim is the opening with her mother. I think taking that into account directs interpretations a bit. 

Kim is going to destroy herself, IMO, if she doesn't get away from Jimmy.

Kim is by far the best character in this show. I have zero idea what that character sees in Jimmy, however. He's the worst. 

[SeanF]

14 hours ago, Ran said:

Just saw the episode. Terrific, and the complexity it gives to Kim is amazing. Rhea Seahorn is such a great actress.

Little-mentioned in the discussion of Kim is the opening with her mother. I think taking that into account directs interpretations a bit. 

Kim is going to destroy herself, IMO, if she doesn't get away from Jimmy.

Kim is going to destroy herself.  Her actions have become quite self-destructive.

[Consigliere]

11 minutes ago, Relic said:

I have zero idea what that character sees in Jimmy, however. He's the worst. 

Saviour complex, I think, which has blinded her to the fact that Jimmy is a lost cause and so she has ended up digging herself into an ever deepening hole. Tragic indeed. 

[dbunting]

I think they showed us young Kim with her addicted mother to start giving us insight as to why she chooses Saul. If I had to guess I'd say that we see more of that night with her mom, that her mom dies in a wreck that night and Kim going forward thinks that if she had gotten into the car she could have saved her, guided her.

I had same reaction to the commercial montage, a little long until the word terrorist got blurted out, then I laughed at that one.

 

[Sverna]

19 hours ago, SeanF said:

Is this because in some US jurisdictions, a wife can't give evidence against her husband?

Marital Privilege 

Kim is worried about her career and her dirty dealings with Jimmy. I think she sees him for exactly who he is now and doesn’t want to lose everything she’s worked so hard for. Marrying him might be the only way to get out of possibly being prosecuted and disbarred. 

[Le Cygne]

On 3/25/2020 at 6:43 AM, SeanF said:

Kim is going to destroy herself.  Her actions have become quite self-destructive.

I think Kim walked away from her mother, but she's not walking away from Jimmy (at least not yet). You never listen! Well, she listened to Jimmy.

Here's from the podcast:

Editor: He's the worst boyfriend!
Peter Gould (showrunner): He's trying to make her dream come true!

Jimmy is like a cat who kills a mouse and lays it at the feet of his mistress. It's his gift to her. And she looks at him, and sees why he did it, and pets him.

And she does things for Jimmy, like when Chuck was so nasty to him. They do that for each other, but it's not always in the best ways (understatement).

Here's more, Bob Odenkirk, when asked about the marriage proposal (is there a legal reason?):

"It’s a legal thing primarily, but at the same time, you can’t discount there’s a closeness between the characters that grows because of it."

I think the proposal was a great twist, they didn't go down the predictable road, and I like that Kim has a darker side, too. (Makes for a good story.)

Also I like that Kevin, who has been so tone deaf all along, knew when to fold it. I liked the handshake (we'll see if it sticks). Also justice for Olivia Bitsui!

[Cas Stark]

 

That quote by Odenkirk makes it sound like they go through with it, which then, you have to wonder, exactly what kind of terrible thing will Saul do that finally splits them up?  Because I do not for an instant believe that he was going home to Kim during his BB days.  Jimmy is a fuck up.  There is nothing he does not fuck up, including, he ultimately also fucked up his chance at big time criminal $$ when he met Walt. 

[SeanF]

7 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I think Kim walked away from her mother, but she's not walking away from Jimmy (at least not yet). You never listen! Well, she listened to Jimmy.

Here's from the podcast:

Editor: He's the worst boyfriend!
Peter Gould (showrunner): He's trying to make her dream come true!

Jimmy is like a cat who kills a mouse and lays it at the feet of his mistress. It's his gift to her. And she looks at him, and sees why he did it, and pets him.

And she does things for Jimmy, like when Chuck was so nasty to him. They do that for each other, but it's not always in the best ways (understatement).

Here's more, Bob Odenkirk, when asked about the marriage proposal (is there a legal reason?):

"It’s a legal thing primarily, but at the same time, you can’t discount there’s a closeness between the characters that grows because of it."

I think the proposal was a great twist, they didn't go down the predictable road, and I like that Kim has a darker side, too. (Makes for a good story.)

Also I like that Kevin, who has been so tone deaf all along, knew when to fold it. I liked the handshake (we'll see if it sticks). Also justice for Olivia Bitsui!

Yes, I think she must blame herself in some way for what happened to her mother.

 

4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

 

That quote by Odenkirk makes it sound like they go through with it, which then, you have to wonder, exactly what kind of terrible thing will Saul do that finally splits them up?  Because I do not for an instant believe that he was going home to Kim during his BB days.  Jimmy is a fuck up.  There is nothing he does not fuck up, including, he ultimately also fucked up his chance at big time criminal $$ when he met Walt. 

I don't think Kim's story will end well.  I suspect, thanks to Jimmy, she ends up committing some serious offence.  

I hope she doesn't end up running foul of Gus or Lalo.