Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

[RumHam]

17 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Stringer Bell is up there, too. 

I'd have said Marlo before Stringer. Don't get me wrong Stringer is the more developed character, but he's actually not especially evil. He's practically a tobacco executive compared to Marlo. 

So hey it was Bolsa who made the call. I agree with some of you above that the plotting has been a little looser this year. Like didn't a full day or two pass between Saul bailing Lalo out and Lalo going to wait for the cousins? Is it that weird that Saul's car wasn't still sitting there? Wouldn't he have just assumed Saul was having it fixed or donated to Kars 4 Kids or whatever? 

Something's gonna happen with Nacho that teaches Gus "fear is not a good motivator" because he says that re: Walt in Breaking Bad. Speaking of which how long was Tuco out of prison when we met him on Breaking Bad? I wonder if Lalo did have someone from the Cartel keeping an eye on him, or if he never got a chance to set that up. 

Also if Lalo/the Cartel can throw away $7 million to get him back to mexico without batting an eye, why is Hector rotting in that nursing home clearly unhappy? 

I hope that we get at least one flash forward in the finale. I'd really like an explanation to this from season four:

Quote

In a flash forward to sometime between the events of the Breaking Bad episodes "Ozymandias" and "Granite State",[1] Saul Goodman frantically collects money and other important possessions from his office while Francesca shreds incriminating paperwork. As he says goodbye to her, Saul gives Francesca a lawyer's business card and says that if she needs legal help, she should tell the attorney "Jimmy" sent her. They agree that she will be at a particular location on November 12 at 3 PM to receive a phone call and she says if the phone doesn't ring at exactly 3 o'clock, she'll leave immediately. He says the last few years have been "quite a ride", then contacts his "disappearer" for a new identity.

I mentioned in the Watching thread that I didn't think Breaking Bad was a top tier show, I think the cousins are a big part of that. But also it's tendency to sometimes put style over substance or logic. 

Like in one episode they're sitting on Walt's bed waiting to ax murder him. Then they get a text consisting solely of the spanish word for chicken, and somehow this tells them to back off? They didn't even know Gus and Walt had a relationship.  

[Cas Stark]

27 minutes ago, RumHam said:

 

Something's gonna happen with Nacho that teaches Gus "fear is not a good motivator" because he says that re: Walt in Breaking Bad. 

 

I agree, I thought the same thing. 

[Le Cygne]

Enjoyed the podcast.

Director/writer of the episode said he wanted us to think Kim would die. Oranges. Target. And more. Maybe since they played it up so much, it won't happen.

They carefully filmed the fish moments (GO FISH!) and talked about that a bit.

There are a couple of moments where they talk about the finale. Rhea Seehorn starts talking about it and they bleep it out. Then Peter Gould says this:

We have to take risks and that goes for everybody. We take risks in the story, oh my god, such big risks this season.

And you guys listening don't even know what's coming up in the next episode, but we have been swinging for the fences, swinging and assuming and hoping the audience will follow us down roads which may or may not seem promising to them, but we have to try.

We have to go for  it, because frankly we have the opportunity to. We have enough success that we can kind of do the things that we think we should, and use our guts, and if we don't swing with these characters and with these situations then we've really wasted an opportunity.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/509-better-call-saul-insider/id966297954?i=1000471456630

[Cas Stark]

Hmmm.  That sounds kind of alarming, because "Kim leaves Jimmy and NM to start over" is not what I would call a swinging for the fences type of resolution, so it must be something crazier.  I can't imagine that there is any Kim Wexler in Saul's BB life, that would really undercut both shows, so she hash to be out of ABQ one way or the other.  

But the show has always excelled at making the stuff you knew was going to happen, like Chuck dying, still be surprising and meaningful. 

[SpaceChampion]

I think "Gene" is making sure no one is on to him before moving to a location wherever Kim is.  Final scene might them meeting up at a bar, as strangers introducing themselves to each other.  Perhaps there will be a call back by them taking the names of Betsy and Craig Kettleman.

I never predict these things but always think my ideas for ending are better than what the showrunners decide.  Be better than me, Vince Gilligan!

 

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Enjoyed the podcast.

Director/writer of the episode said he wanted us to think Kim would die. Oranges. Target. And more. Maybe since they played it up so much, it won't happen.

They carefully filmed the fish moments (GO FISH!) and talked about that a bit.

There are a couple of moments where they talk about the finale. Rhea Seehorn starts talking about it and they bleep it out. Then Peter Gould says this:

We have to take risks and that goes for everybody. We take risks in the story, oh my god, such big risks this season.

And you guys listening don't even know what's coming up in the next episode, but we have been swinging for the fences, swinging and assuming and hoping the audience will follow us down roads which may or may not seem promising to them, but we have to try.

We have to go for  it, because frankly we have the opportunity to. We have enough success that we can kind of do the things that we think we should, and use our guts, and if we don't swing with these characters and with these situations then we've really wasted an opportunity.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/509-better-call-saul-insider/id966297954?i=1000471456630

I've said it before, but all season I've been dreading Kim being taken for a one way trip out into the desert.

[Nictarion]

33 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I've said it before, but all season I've been dreading Kim being taken for a one way trip out into the desert.

That would be an even bigger gut punch than having Jessie watch Andrea be executed. 

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Nictarion said:

That would be an even bigger gut punch than having Jessie watch Andrea be executed. 

Which is one reason for hoping that Kim escapes with her life, I think.  Would they go down that route a second time?  Also, it's how Werner already met his end.

[Ran]

I feel like there's no chance Kim gets killed. I find it very hard to see how Jimmy/Saul could continue to tout his "friend of the cartel" status if Kim is killed due to them. 

[dbunting]

I also do not see any way that Kim dies. If anything she will remind herself that despite the commitment her and Jimmy made to each other he will still lie to her, still take unnecessary risks, and still put her in danger and she will leave him. Maybe he just comes home to a dear John letter or she delivers an emmy worthy speech and leaves.

IMO, if he had lost Kim, he would feel guilty for it and the Saul we see in BB is not one who caused the love of his life to be murdered.

[Ran]

34 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I also do not see any way that Kim dies. If anything she will remind herself that despite the commitment her and Jimmy made to each other he will still lie to her, still take unnecessary risks, and still put her in danger and she will leave him. Maybe he just comes home to a dear John letter or she delivers an emmy worthy speech and leaves.

Yeah. I think she's going to remove herself from his life somehow. Or, worse, she ends up becoming the cartel's Helen (re: Ozark) and then removes herself from his life (very doubtful she'd go that way, but... you never know).

I also suspect that she'll feature in the final season's opening/closing flashforward.

[SpaceChampion]

On 4/14/2020 at 2:25 PM, Cas Stark said:

No, because 1) Fring actually took out all of his enemies, including Eladio staying alive long enough to know that he was behind it,  [unlike Doran, who has sat on his ass and done nothing, gotten revenge on no one]  2) his final failure wasn't due to dithering but to arrogance and a need to stick it to Hector one final time.  

I still believe the fish are not likely to make it out of the series alive unless Kim takes them w/her when she leaves.  

Gus was successful, doesn't mean he wasn't like Doran in cautiou disposition, strategy and methods.  My actual point is Doran could have been the Gus Fring of Westeros.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

Finally caught up with all eight episodes of S5. What a fucking disappointment. I watched eight episodes with four episodes worth of plot. I feel like they took everything that was wrong with S4 and just made it worse--languid pace, characters in a rut, no real sense of danger for our main characters because we all know how their fates play out in Breaking Bad, and prolonged side stories with characters I could not care less about. I mean, even when things finally pick up in S5E7 & 8 we know there's no real danger for Saul, Mike & Gus. 

[Le Cygne]

Rhea Seehorn. And the final cryptic clue!

How much illumination on Kim and Jimmy's relationship will there be in the finale?

The depths of how complex this relationship is and how deep it runs with both of them is illuminated. Even more. [Laughs]

After a season of so many surprises, how many more can physically be packed into this finale?

... Sometimes the penultimate episode can wrap up a few of the stories, and then you do other ones for the finale. But in this case, no, the surprises aren’t done, not for any of us. I wasn't sure what else there was to mine because I felt breathless after [episode] 9, but you are going to have a hard time breathing through [episode] 10. And some of it is because there are some scenes with some humor in them, but they're so coded now with what we know about the bigger picture.

What is one final cryptic clue that you can drop about Kim in the finale?

The fear and the worry that people have for Kim — and what's happening to her — is merited.

https://ew.com/tv/better-call-saul-rhea-seehorn-kim-lalo-scene/

[akh]

2 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Finally caught up with all eight episodes of S5. What a fucking disappointment. I watched eight episodes with four episodes worth of plot. I feel like they took everything that was wrong with S4 and just made it worse--languid pace, characters in a rut, no real sense of danger for our main characters because we all know how their fates play out in Breaking Bad, and prolonged side stories with characters I could not care less about. I mean, even when things finally pick up in S5E7 & 8 we know there's no real danger for Saul, Mike & Gus. 

I don't get it. One of my good friends was a huge Breaking Bad fan and never started BCS exactly because he knew that the main characters were safe. If that's a key point for you - why would you watch it in the first place? And I don't mean anything by it, I'm genuinely curious.

[SeanF]

19 hours ago, Ran said:

Yeah. I think she's going to remove herself from his life somehow. Or, worse, she ends up becoming the cartel's Helen (re: Ozark) and then removes herself from his life (very doubtful she'd go that way, but... you never know).

I also suspect that she'll feature in the final season's opening/closing flashforward.

Kim becoming " a friend of the cartel" like Helen would also be a sad ending.

[Cas Stark]

I don't see her being murdered and I can't see her becoming a friend of the cartel either, her whole self image, whether it is accurate or not, is bound up in doing the right thing+helping the underdog.  I can't see her becoming Lalo Salamanca's legal counsel.  I initially thought it was a nice clean break from her past fuck ups when she quit and left Mesa Verde since those were tainted by her various frauds with Jimmy, but it is impossible for her to get any fresh start as a PD with the Lalo stuff.  It will be interesting  how they end up resolving her departure from Jimmy's life.

[Le Cygne]

Kim would never be a friend of the cartel, she'd do something drastic first. Jimmy doesn't even really want to be, he's just stuckon Bad Choice Road.

Maybe she kills someone in self-defense. That would be a game changer, she'd have to get away. Or maybe Jimmy pushes her away to protect her.

[Cas Stark]

It also may be that there is no resolution to Kim until the final season, Kim and Nacho are the only main characters whose 'end' is not known via BB, so it would make sense to keep them in the show for the final season, even though Kim and Jimmy's relationship already feels much past its sell by date.  Not only does Rhea need to get her fucking Emmy, but she's certainly the most popular character/actress with the critics and maybe with the fans also. 

I still feel like the show never really recovered from the loss of Chuck, so losing Kim and still having another season would be hard to make it work well unless they went full BB for the whole last season.  But, the show is excellent at taking twists and making decisions that are unexpected but still work for the characters, unlike another once popular show that we all watched.

*Also I think Lalo may be very similar to Jesse Pinkman in that they found a characterization that is much more than what they initially saw/intended and so the role has been somewhat expanded and he too may survive for the final season.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

It also may be that there is no resolution to Kim until the final season, Kim and Nacho are the only main characters whose 'end' is not known via BB, so it would make sense to keep them in the show for the final season, even though Kim and Jimmy's relationship already feels much past its sell by date.  Not only does Rhea need to get her fucking Emmy, but she's certainly the most popular character/actress with the critics and maybe with the fans also. 

I still feel like the show never really recovered from the loss of Chuck, so losing Kim and still having another season would be hard to make it work well unless they went full BB for the whole last season.  But, the show is excellent at taking twists and making decisions that are unexpected but still work for the characters, unlike another once popular show that we all watched.

*Also I think Lalo may be very similar to Jesse Pinkman in that they found a characterization that is much more than what they initially saw/intended and so the role has been somewhat expanded and he too may survive for the final season.

Just imagine what this production team would have done with A Game of Thrones.  It would have been a gripping character-driven drama to the end.