Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

[Winterfell is Burning]

On 4/17/2020 at 3:32 AM, akh said:

I don't get it. One of my good friends was a huge Breaking Bad fan and never started BCS exactly because he knew that the main characters were safe. If that's a key point for you - why would you watch it in the first place? And I don't mean anything by it, I'm genuinely curious.

That's specially silly because major characters getting murdered has always been very much an exception in TV history. Not like anyone thought Joey Tribbiani is going to end in prison for life or Don Draper would end up getting killed by the Mafia in the last episode. 

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Not like anyone thought Joey Tribbiani is going to end in prison for life 

Wait, is that not how his spin-off ended?

[Caligula_K3]

I finally caught up on this season and am so excited for the finale. I loved season 1 of this show and aspects of the last three seasons, but I always felt that the Jimmy/Kim side of the show was much stronger than the cartel/Mike/Gus side of the show, which too often felt underdeveloped and verged on just answering questions I didn't care about from Breaking Bad (how did Hector have his stroke? How did Gus start putting together the superlab). By finally combining these plotlines, focusing on the show's new characters for the cartel side, like Nacho and Lalo, and allowing the characters to interact more than one a season, it finally feels like Better Call Saul is coming into its own. The last three episodes in particular have been phenomenal television, culminating in that great sequence in Jimmy and Kim's apartment. Yes, we know that Jimmy is safe in this scene (though not Kim), but even so, the director was fantastic at ratcheting up the tension.

In general, I'm not sure I understand the complaints that the show is boring because we know that Jimmy and Mike aren't going to die. Better Call Saul has elements of the "tension, plot twist" show, especially with characters like Chuck, Kim, and Nacho, but it's never been that kind of show. It's a Greek tragedy. We know the ending, we know it's going to be bad, and the point is seeing how these characters develop, and our sadness at seeing them make increasingly bad choices. 

 

 

[Cas Stark]

So, I guess my days of rooting for Kim Wexler are over.  

[Minsc]

27 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

So, I guess my days of rooting for Kim Wexler are over.  

Yeah, is she pulling a reverse Sklyer and becoming less symapthetic as the show goes on?

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Minsc said:

Yeah, is she pulling a reverse Sklyer and becoming less symapthetic as the show goes on?

Fuck Skyler, she's channeling Walt, where I began thinking that the darkness was always in her and this is why she has been so tightly controlled and play by the book, because otherwise, she will break bad, and  now she has.  

[Minsc]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Fuck Skyler, she's channeling Walt, where I began thinking that the darkness was always in her and this is why she has been so tightly controlled and play by the book, because otherwise, she will break bad, and  now she has.  

I find it interesting how she is now complicit in working to destroy the two men (Chuck and Howard) likely most responsible for her actually becoming a lawyer.  Seen how it was likely Howard and Chuck that decided to have HHM pay her way through law school.

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Fuck Skyler, she's channeling Walt, where I began thinking that the darkness was always in her and this is why she has been so tightly controlled and play by the book, because otherwise, she will break bad, and  now she has.  

Walt was always bad at heart, I think.  Power revealed what kind of man he was.

While I think Kim shares Walt's hidden rage at the world, her grievances were more real than his were, as well as her anger at injustice. But, her descent into corruption, and now, outright cruelty, is clear enough.  I've moved from worrying about what could be done to Kim, to worrying about what she will do.

I know I've compared this show to the abomination, previously, but this is how you show a sympathetic character turning dark;. you don't try to pull a surprise on the viewers.

[sifth]

I have to say Tony Dalton has been amazing on this show as Lalo. I was honestly expecting this series to go down hill without Chuck and to be honest I was feeling that way at the start of season 4, but dam Lalo has been a really great character in my book. Every scene with this guy is filled with so much tension, to the point where I can't turn my head away from the tv.

[SeanF]

36 minutes ago, sifth said:

I have to say Tony Dalton has been amazing on this show as Lalo. I was honestly expecting this series to go down hill without Chuck and to be honest I was feeling that way at the start of season 4, but dam Lalo has been a really great character in my book. Every scene with this guy is filled with so much tension, to the point where I can't turn my head away from the tv.

Lalo has been a real revelation.

He's such a nice, amusing, friendly, guy, until he decides to kill you.

[Le Cygne]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

Walt was always bad at heart, I think.  Power revealed what kind of man he was.

While I think Kim shares Walt's hidden rage at the world, her grievances were more real than his were, as well as her anger at injustice. But, her descent into corruption, and now, outright cruelty, is clear enough.  I've moved from worrying about what could be done to Kim, to worrying about what she will do.

I know I've compared this show to the abomination, previously, but this is how you show a sympathetic character turning dark;. you don't try to pull a surprise on the viewers.

I've enjoyed the Viktor and Giselle stuff for a long time, so I really liked the way Kim out-did Jimmy in the end. I can't wait for next season to learn more about her, and see what happens next!

I like characters with a dark side to them. Hopefully she and Jimmy get their shit together in the end, but it's a fun ride, and the show is so entertaining! I want to rewatch the whole thing now.

Yeah, nothing like the abomination. This was slow and good.

[Cas Stark]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

Walt was always bad at heart, I think.  Power revealed what kind of man he was.

While I think Kim shares Walt's hidden rage at the world, her grievances were more real than his were, as well as her anger at injustice. But, her descent into corruption, and now, outright cruelty, is clear enough.  I've moved from worrying about what could be done to Kim, to worrying about what she will do.

I know I've compared this show to the abomination, previously, but this is how you show a sympathetic character turning dark;. you don't try to pull a surprise on the viewers.

I'm sad that now I dislike Kim Wexler, and will be interested in a rewatch if there are signs all along about the 'real' Kim.  I also read an interesting review that mentions how audiences are conditioned to see 'bad boy ruins nice girl's life' and so that is what the audience has been seeing the whole time--Jimmy corrupting Kim--but the reality may be very different. Like Walt, she was always corrupt on the inside, this is why she is with Jimmy.   It's always been interesting that Kim/Jimmy have zero sexual chemistry and their relationship is hardly about sex at all.....but this gives the answer, Kim loves Jimmy not in spite of his faults but because of them.  I'm not sure I can watch Howard's life get destroyed next season.

And yes, I admit it, I was rooting for Lalo to make it to next season alive.  

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

I'm sad that now I dislike Kim Wexler, and will be interested in a rewatch if there are signs all along about the 'real' Kim.  I also read an interesting review that mentions how audiences are conditioned to see 'bad boy ruins nice girl's life' and so that is what the audience has been seeing the whole time--Jimmy corrupting Kim--but the reality may be very different. Like Walt, she was always corrupt on the inside, this is why she is with Jimmy.   It's always been interesting that Kim/Jimmy have zero sexual chemistry and their relationship is hardly about sex at all.....but this gives the answer, Kim loves Jimmy not in spite of his faults but because of them.  I'm not sure I can watch Howard's life get destroyed next season.

And yes, I admit it, I was rooting for Lalo to make it to next season alive.  

I don't know what the US equivalent is, but over here, framing someone for a crime they never committed is perverting the course of justice.  It's about the worst thing any legal professional could do (there have been some prominent cases), other than murder or sexual offences. 

[Cas Stark]

38 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I don't know what the US equivalent is, but over here, framing someone for a crime they never committed is perverting the course of justice.  It's about the worst thing any legal professional could do (there have been some prominent cases), other than murder or sexual offences. 

I'm not sure, I think it would be some kind of fraud, as well as probably evidence tampering.  At this point, sad to say, I hope she gets disbarred, because it turns out, she is worse than Jimmy, who at least in his schemes there is only collateral damage, those who are hurt accidentally, he has never created a scheme for the sole purpose of harming anyone.  And despite her idea of running a pro bono law firm, $2 million is not much of a bankroll, that would only last a couple of years, her real goal here is to hurt Howard because she dislikes him and hates him for calling Jimmy the spade that he is. 

ETA and it may be that she really did want to destroy Kevin's reputation and business.  It was Jimmy afterall who made the handshake deal, not Kim.  

[Minsc]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

ETA and it may be that she really did want to destroy Kevin's reputation and business.  It was Jimmy afterall who made the handshake deal, not Kim.  

It is interesting that she only pulls back when she fears some pushback against her.  Similarly, despite Jimmy getting everything that she supposedly wanted that she is still outraged primarily because how it negatively impacted her.

[Cas Stark]

11 minutes ago, Minsc said:

It is interesting that she only pulls back when she fears some pushback against her.  Similarly, despite Jimmy getting everything that she supposedly wanted that she is still outraged primarily because how it negatively impacted her.

I have to wonder if she wasn't always more interested in fucking with Kevin because he refused to take her advice.  Kim's 'do good' stuff seemingly is much more about her playing god, her righting wrongs that SHE sees, than about helping people who need it.  I had believed she was legitimately upset about what happened to Chuck and this made it harder to understand why she kept on doing this BS with Jimmy over and over.....but it seems that the reason is, she likes it.  She likes to stick it to people who she thinks have disrespected her in some way.  She likes to be powerful and play god.  

How awful, but yeah, this is how you do a heel turn, it is still surprising, but makes sense in hindsight, the truth was there all along.

[RumHam]

I think I might have missed something re: the Lalo hit. If just killing him was an option why didn't they take it sooner? I can understand if they didn't want him to die in the US to avoid suspicion, but really who would the cartel suspect if he was gunned down by a hit squad at his home? Why not just have Nacho shoot him or poison him? Why did they need Nacho to open the gate at all when Lalo's guards are so horribly inept? "unkown SUV approaching." So the guard walks up to its tinted windows slowly, only raising his gun briefly towards the end. 

I always figured that Salamanca from Breaking Bad who

Jessie kills in Salud 

was Lalo's kid. I guess he still could be, but it's a shame they didn't bring the actor back for a bit more continuity. 

I still think Lalo dies next season, but there's now a tiiiny chance that he doesn't. We always figured he was dead beause Gus taunt's Hector about being the last (male?) Salamanca. Well, now Gus think's he's dead. But plot wise I don't see how they can continue Lalo's story without Gus and Mike learning he's alive. 

Going back to the end of the previous episode, I'm curious how people read Lalo's abrupt exit from the apartment? Did Kim actually shame him and make him realize he had a good soilder in Nacho and needed to put more trust in him? 

 

[Nictarion]

Really glad Lalo made it. The final season should be crazy on the cartel side. It would seem Nacho is fucked, but who knows...

[Nictarion]

So what are the chances Kim just ends up being disbarred, and maybe even goes to prison? 

Probably a more realistic outcome than her being killed at this point. 

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, RumHam said:

I think I might have missed something re: the Lalo hit. If just killing him was an option why didn't they take it sooner? I can understand if they didn't want him to die in the US to avoid suspicion, but really who would the cartel suspect if he was gunned down by a hit squad at his home? Why not just have Nacho shoot him or poison him? Why did they need Nacho to open the gate at all when Lalo's guards are so horribly inept? "unkown SUV approaching." So the guard walks up to its tinted windows slowly, only raising his gun briefly towards the end. 

I always figured that Salamanca from Breaking Bad who

  Hide contents

Jessie kills in Salud 

was Lalo's kid. I guess he still could be, but it's a shame they didn't bring the actor back for a bit more continuity. 

I still think Lalo dies next season, but there's now a tiiiny chance that he doesn't. We always figured he was dead beause Gus taunt's Hector about being the last (male?) Salamanca. Well, now Gus think's he's dead. But plot wise I don't see how they can continue Lalo's story without Gus and Mike learning he's alive. 

Going back to the end of the previous episode, I'm curious how people read Lalo's abrupt exit from the apartment? Did Kim actually shame him and make him realize he had a good soilder in Nacho and needed to put more trust in him? 

 

There seems to be no love lost between Lalo and Juan Bolsa.  The cartel might suspect Bolsa, following what happened in the desert.