Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

[Martell Spy]

3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

So what are the chances Kim just ends up being disbarred, and maybe even goes to prison? 

Probably a more realistic outcome than her being killed at this point. 

I've thought this will be the case for a while now. How excited she got by Jimmy's scams made me think that. It makes sense. She's probably not dead in Breaking Bad timeline, yet her break with Saul is bound to be quite traumatic. Them having an argument and then not talking to each other ever again just seems like not enough. And her being killed by a cartel member seems like too much.

And yeah Kim is definitely breaking bad. Just read an interview where Gilligan confirmed it.

[sifth]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

There seems to be no love lost between Lalo and Juan Bolsa.  The cartel might suspect Bolsa, following what happened in the desert.

The only thing is, no one knows about this aside from Gus and Juan Bolsa himself. Lalo is naturally going to suspect it was Gus doing and Gus major arc next season will be trying to shift the blame to someone else and my money is on Nacho. It's sort of crazy, but there are times when I wish this wasn't a prequel and didn't know who was 100% safe and who wasn't, lol

[dbunting]

Have to say I was surprised Kim / Saul are still together at the end of the episode. It seemed all set up for him to push her away and instead we see Kim go full dark side. Not so keen on Lalo taking out an entire hit squad all by himself but hey, I can suspend belief for it. Lalo also had a nice long look at the decanter, the one Nacho was gone too long finding, so that sets it up that he knows Nacho was involved.

Agree that next season is set up to be pretty crazy. HHM probably destroyed, Kim falls from grace, cartel after eachother or Gus and Saul the cockroach sneaks on by and lives another day.

[Cas Stark]

13 hours ago, Nictarion said:

So what are the chances Kim just ends up being disbarred, and maybe even goes to prison? 

Probably a more realistic outcome than her being killed at this point. 

Agree.  I still don't see her getting killed or becoming a 'friend of the cartel' because that will not fit with her personal sense of justice.  So, she will do something terrible to Howard and then, hopefully, because I'm all done with her, get her punishment.

13 hours ago, Triskele said:

Not that I blame anyone, but Don Elario looked older in a way that was so different.  Everyone else like Hector, Mike, etc... they've done a great job with the time juxtaposition.  

I thought the same, Eladio does look old, but then, Mike looks older too.

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Have to say I was surprised Kim / Saul are still together at the end of the episode. It seemed all set up for him to push her away and instead we see Kim go full dark side. Not so keen on Lalo taking out an entire hit squad all by himself but hey, I can suspend belief for it. Lalo also had a nice long look at the decanter, the one Nacho was gone too long finding, so that sets it up that he knows Nacho was involved.

Agree that next season is set up to be pretty crazy. HHM probably destroyed, Kim falls from grace, cartel after eachother or Gus and Saul the cockroach sneaks on by and lives another day.

I kind of loved it.  The random sequence of events....Lalo is still up so Nacho has to do something so he can get to the gate, then the very thing he does, kitchen fire, gives Lalo extra time,  a human shield, boiling grease, which he all uses to his advantage.  Plus, you would expect Lalo is pretty good with all types of violence, so the home court advantage and the secret tunnel put him over the top.  Or, it could be that I love the character and don't care whether it was realistic or not. 

[Caligula_K3]

12 hours ago, Triskele said:

Not that I blame anyone, but Don Elario looked older in a way that was so different.  Everyone else like Hector, Mike, etc... they've done a great job with the time juxtaposition.  

I don't know about that... Mike looks pretty frail these days. And someone like the actor who plays Gomez has aged a ton since Breaking Bad.  Like you, though, I don't blame anyone for this, though it is one reason I sometimes with they'd keep the Breaking Bad cameos to a minimum.

Anyway, it was a great season finale, setting the show up in a perfect direction for season six, both through the Lalo and Kim angles. At this point I don't even try to guess anymore what Kim's ending will be, though I assume she's going to be the one who first gets Saul's shopping mall office; they've done a great job taking her character arc in surprising but believable directions.

Overall, I think this season beats out season 1 as the best of the show. It'll be probably be a long time till we get the last one... it's going to be a painful wait.

 

 

 

[Cas Stark]

Also, I loved that Lalo has a huge, walled, beautifully landscaped villa.  He and Don Eladio are the only two cartel guys who seem to enjoy the fruits of their very dangerous labor. 

[Tears of Lys]

I'm not sure whether it's because I just like the actress so much who plays Kim (Rhea Seehorn?) or what, but I find it a bit jarring to see her being so vindictive and vicious toward Howard, who really never did HER any wrong and only tried to help her.  Especially to the extent she wants to take it, to completely ruining the man personally and professionally.  All because he doesn't like Jimmy??  I don't know, but to me it doesn't ring true.  

And yeah, I think Nacho's goose is cooked as far as Lalo is concerned.  

[Cas Stark]

This is how you do a twist, where it makes you look again at the things that went before in a new light.  There is no need to retcon anything, because it was always there, only most of us didn't see it, we chose to see Kim as she and Jimmy see her, and waved away the evidence even as it continued to pile up and blamed Jimmy.  But Kim has been telling us all along that is BS, no one saves her and no one ruins her.  The dark impulses are hers too and always were. 

Jimmy may have been a bad influence on Kim, in that she may never have let her dark side surface w/out a partner in crime, but far from simply tolerating Jimmy's antics, the last ep showed that she really was 'all in' for them, she did enjoy them.  Kim Wexler became a totally different person from who most of the audience, at least me, thought she was, and she hasn't actually done anything yet, although I expect that she will follow through next season on her plan to ruin Howard.

Poor Khaleesi, she might have had a fantastic dark turn like this if her story had been in better hands.  

 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

This is how you do a twist, where it makes you look again at the things that went before in a new light.  There is no need to retcon anything, because it was always there, only most of us didn't see it, we chose to see Kim as she and Jimmy see her, and waved away the evidence even as it continued to pile up and blamed Jimmy.  But Kim has been telling us all along that is BS, no one saves her and no one ruins her.  The dark impulses are hers too and always were. 

Jimmy may have been a bad influence on Kim, in that she may never have let her dark side surface w/out a partner in crime, but far from simply tolerating Jimmy's antics, the last ep showed that she really was 'all in' for them, she did enjoy them.  Kim Wexler became a totally different person from who most of the audience, at least me, thought she was, and she hasn't actually done anything yet, although I expect that she will follow through next season on her plan to ruin Howard.

Poor Khaleesi, she might have had a fantastic dark turn like this if her story had been in better hands.  

 

Warfare can corrupt anyone (or reveal their nature).  It would not have been hard for competent writers to portray Dany as gradually resorting to methods that would once have appalled her, justifying them as militarily necessary, and blurring the distinction between guilt and innocence.  Her ideals, like Kim's pro bono work, could gradually have become pretexts.

[SpaceChampion]

Collider interview with the showrunners on Kim's arc.

[Caligula_K3]

17 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

I'm not sure whether it's because I just like the actress so much who plays Kim (Rhea Seehorn?) or what, but I find it a bit jarring to see her being so vindictive and vicious toward Howard, who really never did HER any wrong and only tried to help her.  Especially to the extent she wants to take it, to completely ruining the man personally and professionally.  All because he doesn't like Jimmy??  I don't know, but to me it doesn't ring true.  

And yeah, I think Nacho's goose is cooked as far as Lalo is concerned.  

There was that whole part of Season 2 where Howard treated Kim very badly, causing her to leave HHM. I can't remember why he did it; I just remember many scenes of him treating her terribly.

[sifth]

1 hour ago, Caligula_K3 said:

There was that whole part of Season 2 where Howard treated Kim very badly, causing her to leave HHM. I can't remember why he did it; I just remember many scenes of him treating her terribly.

I remember that season as well. Howard basically gave Kim a really crapy job at HHM. Kim was able to dig herself out of the hole and get back in Howard's good grace, but I certainly can understand why she'd hate him for that.

[Consigliere]

Howard continued being a dick to Kim even after she should have been back in his good graces (getting Mesa Verde's business). It was Chuck who made Howard take Kim out of doc review and Howard was still acting all pissy towards her. Kim being banished to doc review was heavy handed in the first place. I can see why she harbours resentment.

[Paxter]

19 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

I'm not sure whether it's because I just like the actress so much who plays Kim (Rhea Seehorn?) or what, but I find it a bit jarring to see her being so vindictive and vicious toward Howard, who really never did HER any wrong and only tried to help her.  Especially to the extent she wants to take it, to completely ruining the man personally and professionally.  All because he doesn't like Jimmy??  I don't know, but to me it doesn't ring true.  

And yeah, I think Nacho's goose is cooked as far as Lalo is concerned.  

Exactly how I feel. It's one thing for her to go "all in" with Jimmy, as she sees him as the love of her life. But to go even more evil than Jimmy re: Howard...that just seems weird. I know there's plenty of history between Kim and Howard, but that hasn't bubbled up for a long time. She has long since won that battle by getting Mesa Verde.

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Howard continued being a dick to Kim even after she should have been back in his good graces (getting Mesa Verde's business). It was Chuck who made Howard take Kim out of doc review and Howard was still acting all pissy towards her. Kim being banished to doc review was heavy handed in the first place. I can see why she harbours resentment.

Being banished to 'document review' several years ago, is not really grounds for destroying your ex boss by framing him for a series of felonies.  

[Consigliere]

28 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Being banished to 'document review' several years ago, is not really grounds for destroying your ex boss by framing him for a series of felonies.  

Yeah, Kim has broken bad and gone overboard now. She had a legitimate reason to harbour anger towards Howard but has gone too far. Nobody is denying that. 

Anyway, this was following on from the claim upthread that Howard never did her any wrong and only tried to help her. That's not entirely true. 

[Cas Stark]

Am I the only one who has wondered why BB Saul isn't more prosperous, now that we see his back story of being more involved w/the cartel than what most probably thought and having a clearer idea of who and what Mike is capable of?  BB Saul drives an old car and has a crappy mini mall office that is full of the typical low life, petty criminals that we would expect from an ambulance chasing, sleazy attorney.  This doesn't quite square with someone who rep'd Lalo Salamanca and knows some of Mike's secrets, how did he never make bank in those years with any of the cartel relationships?  

[Consigliere]

Retconning. 

[Cas Stark]

22 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Retconning. 

Partially. I'm not sure, it isn't like the show to leave such a large inconsistency. 

I have enjoyed seeing how many chances Jimmy has had to become financially successful, and he has blown them every time through self sabotage.  So, I hope that in the final season we will see how he becomes persona non grata for everyone except marginal street criminals, because Jimmy is actually a good lawyer, he could easily have been ABQ answer to a real life Mark Geragos type even w/out cartel clients. 

 

[dbunting]

45 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Am I the only one who has wondered why BB Saul isn't more prosperous, now that we see his back story of being more involved w/the cartel than what most probably thought and having a clearer idea of who and what Mike is capable of?  BB Saul drives an old car and has a crappy mini mall office that is full of the typical low life, petty criminals that we would expect from an ambulance chasing, sleazy attorney.  This doesn't quite square with someone who rep'd Lalo Salamanca and knows some of Mike's secrets, how did he never make bank in those years with any of the cartel relationships?  

Well, he has to maintain some appearance of being an ambulance chasing lawyer right? I mean if he starts flashing money around he draws more real attention (DEA, FBI etc.) to himself and by association his clients? Also,(just my guess) I think that next season we will see him not working with the cartel, but just Gus, through Mike and we know Gus would never use Saul to carry $7 million, therefor no big paydays.