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Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

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I didn't see what the back story on the lab had to do with anything or why we need to see it, maybe they're going to do something going forward, but it seemed really unnecessary.  

I also wasn't really buying straight as an arrow, never cuts corners Kim suddenly finding a love of defending the guilty criminals out there.  I really felt meh about the whole episode.

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I didn't see what the back story on the lab had to do with anything or why we need to see it, maybe they're going to do something going forward, but it seemed really unnecessary.  

To be honest, I kind of appreciated that they went to the trouble of explaining how that lab actually got built.  Always wondered how they could have realistically managed to do it.

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10 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I also wasn't really buying straight as an arrow, never cuts corners Kim suddenly finding a love of defending the guilty criminals out there.  I really felt meh about the whole episode.

It does feel somewhat out of the blue.

However, my reading is that this side of her manifested itself in her relationship with Jimmy. She had a desire to protect Jimmy as she saw him as someone who could rehabilitate himself. And with that on the edge of breaking, she's kinda already on the way to replacing that with helping people to avoid jail on the proviso that they seek a fresh start.

I think the timing is suggestive of this and it works on that basis.

 

A further thought: Jimmy may well get into defending criminals through following Kim into it, obviously for all the wrong reasons in opposition to Kim's decent reasons, and that may be the moment they finally part ways.

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2 hours ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

It does feel somewhat out of the blue.

However, my reading is that this side of her manifested itself in her relationship with Jimmy. She had a desire to protect Jimmy as she saw him as someone who could rehabilitate himself. And with that on the edge of breaking, she's kinda already on the way to replacing that with helping people to avoid jail on the proviso that they seek a fresh start.

I think the timing is suggestive of this and it works on that basis.

 

A further thought: Jimmy may well get into defending criminals through following Kim into it, obviously for all the wrong reasons in opposition to Kim's decent reasons, and that may be the moment they finally part ways.

Good points.

She has gained insight into people who take a wrong turn, from her time with Jimmy. She tells the woman she defends that she's good at this, helping people this way (and she finds this more fulfilling than working for a bank).

She also tells Jimmy he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, she's encouraging him to get past his wrong turn, too. And she tells the boy she defends to stay clean, but if he doesn't, she won't be there next time. This may be what happens with Jimmy, too.

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42 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I've been expecting a more creative ending for Kim than 'embraces underdogs/becomes public defender'.

 

Pretty sure that's not going to be her ending.

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16 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I didn't see what the back story on the lab had to do with anything or why we need to see it, maybe they're going to do something going forward, but it seemed really unnecessary.  

I also wasn't really buying straight as an arrow, never cuts corners Kim suddenly finding a love of defending the guilty criminals out there.  I really felt meh about the whole episode.

It did feel more in service of breaking bad than this show. Same with the opening scene. As nice as it is for a breaking bad fan it does distract from better call Saul

I don't think she has a live if defending the guilty more she is bored with masa Verde. Her and Jimmy have so much in common but bring the worst out in each other.

The change in Hamlin was shocking. The guy is falling apart.

 

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40 minutes ago, red snow said:

It did feel more in service of breaking bad than this show. Same with the opening scene. As nice as it is for a breaking bad fan it does distract from better call Saul

I don't think she has a live if defending the guilty more she is bored with masa Verde. Her and Jimmy have so much in common but bring the worst out in each other.

The change in Hamlin was shocking. The guy is falling apart.

 

I didn't really like that development either.  I was really surprised this episode got such good reviews, I thought it was among the weakest of the series.

I don't think she brings out the worst in Jimmy, take away her, and he has no reason to even fake being on the straight and narrow,

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22 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I didn't really like that development either.  I was really surprised this episode got such good reviews, I thought it was among the weakest of the series.

I don't think she brings out the worst in Jimmy, take away her, and he has no reason to even fake being on the straight and narrow,

I think the reason behind him falling apart will make or break that development but irrespective the actor and make up team did a great job at portraying the change.

I think think Jimmy in self destruct mode was still good. It does make you realise how properly used Mike and nacho are to the show.

Part of me thinks the rather aimless story for Jimmy this season is very intentional. We've yet to see the fallout from him losing his brother which was a core point of the show and his life Even if the guy was a dick to him

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23 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think the reason behind him falling apart will make or break that development but irrespective the actor and make up team did a great job at portraying the change.

I think think Jimmy in self destruct mode was still good. It does make you realise how properly used Mike and nacho are to the show.

Part of me thinks the rather aimless story for Jimmy this season is very intentional. We've yet to see the fallout from him losing his brother which was a core point of the show and his life Even if the guy was a dick to him

Agree. 

It seemed out of character to me that Howard would totally fall apart, like it seems a bit out of character that kim is randomly working as a public defender, mesa verde was always going to blow up one way or another.

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34 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Agree. 

It seemed out of character to me that Howard would totally fall apart, like it seems a bit out of character that kim is randomly working as a public defender, mesa verde was always going to blow up one way or another.

For me Howard always came across as a taut string ready to snap. Just not sure the loss of Chuck would have caused it. I think there's been other things occurring we are not yet privvy to.

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Well Howard did still have to pay Chuck millions right? Mostly out of his own pocket. Chuck seemed shocked he did it so it had to be a lot of money for Howard. 

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4 hours ago, RumHam said:

Well Howard did still have to pay Chuck millions right? Mostly out of his own pocket. Chuck seemed shocked he did it so it had to be a lot of money for Howard. 

Good point. It could be the company is going under which would explain his appearance. 

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On 9/5/2018 at 1:15 PM, Cas Stark said:

I've been expecting a more creative ending for Kim than 'embraces underdogs/becomes public defender'.

I don't think that's how she ends up. I think she's finding her way, to find out where she fits, and this is a step along that path.

They are all reacting to the death of Chuck, in a way. Kim and Howard are working through their feelings, which is what Jimmy is avoiding.

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Just caught up on the last two episodes and I agree with those that find both pretty blah.  However, I think this is fairly consistent with the trajectory of previous seasons - I've always found the middle to lull.  I also agree that Jimmy (as well as Kim) seems to be taking a back seat on his own show - even taking into account the "2 shows in 1" aspect.  Few random thoughts:

Thought it was interesting the flash forward was in color.  I think it makes sense as it denotes it was still in the BB timeline.  Kinda makes me wonder if we'll get more of such.  I can't remember if it's ever stated precisely (so please correct or specify), but I think there's about 6-10 months in between when we last see Saul in BB and when Walter returns in the final episode.  Hm.

That being said, the flash forward was basically fan service - everything done/said in the scene could be safely assumed by any BB fan without having to see it.  Which raises the issue of if they are going to do flash forwards in that timeframe, I don't see how it could possibly be tied into the events of BB.  Unless, say, Saul gives advice to Skyler or something. 

Actually, the only noteworthy part of that scene is Saul sending Francesca to a lawyer and to "tell him Jimmy sent you."  Wonder if that could be Howard?  Can't help but point out this is the first episode the two interact since the season premiere.  Oh, the other noteworthy part was him telling her to expect a call at precisely 3:00 on November 12.  Did I miss something and am supposed to know what that means?  Either way, sounds..ominous.

I agree that it's time for Mike to pull away from Stacey (if not necessarily Kaylee), but I'd like some more closure on that relationship.  For some reason I suspect him ignoring her call is all we're gonna get.

On 8/27/2018 at 10:23 PM, Nictarion said:

So the cousins could take down a stash house guarded like Fort Knox but they couldn’t kill Hank by himself in a parking lot? 

Well, I don't know if this is entirely fair.  First, Hank had the warning call from Gus which enabled him to take out the first cousin; then the second one did have Hank killed but wasted time getting the axe ("muy facil").  This is kinda like saying how is Mike able to do..all the Mike things he does but gets killed by allowing Walt to get the drop on him?  Different circumstances.

On 8/29/2018 at 7:22 PM, RumHam said:

Maybe I missed something but how did Gus know Mike was aware of Nacho's plans to kill Hector? 

Good question.  Simplest answer is Nacho told him of Mike's involvement.

On 9/5/2018 at 8:06 AM, Dolorous Gabe said:

A further thought: Jimmy may well get into defending criminals through following Kim into it, obviously for all the wrong reasons in opposition to Kim's decent reasons, and that may be the moment they finally part ways.

Interesting!  I did think Kim getting the rundown on cases from the security guard strikingly resembled how we're introduced to Saul in BB - after meeting with Badger he's discussing all the other potential clients with (presumably) Francesca.

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I just watched the last episode and loved it.  It was exquisite in its portrayal of the precision and painstaking detail necessary to create such an endeavor as the cook plant under the laundry facility.  L.O.V.E.D I.T. 

Gus has been the star of this season so far.  The writers love this guy.

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6 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

I just watched the last episode and loved it.  It was exquisite in its portrayal of the precision and painstaking detail necessary to create such an endeavor as the cook plant under the laundry facility.  L.O.V.E.D I.T. 

Gus has been the star of this season so far.  The writers love this guy.

I think the creators and the actor loves Gus. I wouldn't say he's been the star this season but always spoiled for choice in this show. Kim has had some excellent scenes. But I think Mike is consistently great and gets good stories too.

The complaints of how did Hank beat the twins or Mike get plunked by Walt. I think the point is these people tend to win until they don't. One slip or wildcard and it's game over. Mike's ending feels particularly tragic given how good he was but the point was he set himself up for it the moment he made the mistake of working with Walt - he knew he was dangerous/unpredictable yet went ahead. At least he went out calling Walt on his bullshit

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22 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

I just watched the last episode and loved it.  It was exquisite in its portrayal of the precision and painstaking detail necessary to create such an endeavor as the cook plant under the laundry facility.  L.O.V.E.D I.T. 

Gus has been the star of this season so far.  The writers love this guy.

It was awesome how they committed as much time as they did to the first guy they showed the space to just for all the better setup of the 2nd guy who seemed like maybe he wouldn't cut it due to his sickness until...he was so fucking the right guy.  

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5 hours ago, Triskjavikson said:

It was awesome how they committed as much time as they did to the first guy they showed the space to just for all the better setup of the 2nd guy who seemed like maybe he wouldn't cut it due to his sickness until...he was so fucking the right guy.  

Yeah Gus was watching the whole time and both him and Mike saw that the first guy was all bullshit. He walked around with a laser measure, didn't ask any relevant questions and was like, oh yeah we can do this, 7 months, yeah no problem, yep uh huh. 

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The first guy was way too overconfident.  What the viewer is supposed to get from that is he was either on the take or compromised.  Either way, he was disposable.  The second guy was more meticulous, sure, but I think Gilligan and co. also wanted to demonstrate that Gus hires guys in which he can identify their vulnerabilities.  Anyway, I still thought it was mostly a waste of time.

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