Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

[Cas Stark]

6 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Hmm I dunno about that. They both got into the meth business but at different levels. Like I don't get the impression Jessie was a party to murder before he met Walt, where as for Nacho and Tuco it's a matter of course. (remember the story about that guy Tuco shot for no reason and part of his skull was still lodged in Nacho?) Yeah most of that was probably Tuco, but I get the impression if Nacho was told to kill someone he would. and don't forget he asked Mike to kill Tuco for him rather than solving that problem some other way. 

As I recall Jessie never participated in killing anyone other than in self defense. He wasn't involved in the prison shanking or anything like that. But I might be forgetting something. 

Jesse is from an upper middle class family and is also quite good looking, so all he had to do is not do something crazy, like become a meth cook, and his life would almost surely have been cushy.  He also had numerous chances to get out from under Walt's grip but was always manipulated back into things.  Nacho's father is a working class Mexican immigrant, so his options are already much more limited than Jesse's from the beginning and he would now get out if he could.  My impression is that Nacho is not inherently violent like Tuco, but yes he probably has done more violent acts than Jesse.  I can't fault Nacho for wanting to kill a bat shit insane person like Tuco, at all. 

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Her participation in the various frauds against Chuck to save Jimmy was a 'do not cross' line for me, sure he was an asshole, also mentally ill and also right about Jimmy all down the line.  Their actions led to his suicide, IMO.  

Jimmy ratting out Chuck to the insurance company was what led to his suicide. After the shenanigans at the Bar hearing, Chuck finally accepted that his illness was mental rather than physical, was getting help and actually improving. Kim is certainly no angel though - she clearly gets a kick out of engaging in unsavoury tactics now and again (or when it benefits her). At least Jimmy is honest about the kind of lawyer he intends to be whereas Kim wants to have her cake and eat it too. 

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Jesse is from an upper middle class family and is also quite good looking, so all he had to do is not do something crazy, like become a meth cook, and his life would almost surely have been cushy.  He also had numerous chances to get out from under Walt's grip but was always manipulated back into things.  Nacho's father is a working class Mexican immigrant, so his options are already much more limited than Jesse's from the beginning and he would now get out if he could.  My impression is that Nacho is not inherently violent like Tuco, but yes he probably has done more violent acts than Jesse.  I can't fault Nacho for wanting to kill a bat shit insane person like Tuco, at all. 

Hey, Nacho is pretty hot.

My understanding is that Jessie's parents had cut him off due to his drug use. Whereas Nacho could have made a modest living working at his dad's car detailing place. I also don't think Nacho is inherently violent, nor is Jessie. But Nacho is more.... Like Jessie wouldn't have broken into the squat cobbler's house and stolen his baseball cards unless he was desperate for a fix. Nacho did it cause... he could. Not cause he really needed that extra money. 

[Chad Vader]

Was nice seeing Hank make an appearance. 

[Le Cygne]

On 3/4/2020 at 2:28 PM, RumHam said:

I wonder if this will be the last normal season. It's already starting to feel a lot more Breaking Badish. I feel like by the end of this season his relationship with Kim will be over, and Nacho and Lalo could be gone and we could be pretty close to the start of Breaking Bad. The final season could be all Gene, or take place concurrently with Breaking Bad. 

Gene story will be interesting! I have a feeling Kim will be back next season (or maybe I just hope she will be).

As Gene he uses a Kansas City Royals lunch bag, and that's her team. They said they deliberately had her wear a KC Royals shirt.

Found a pic of the Royals bag! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9GM3ucVoAEjoRr?format=jpg

[Le Cygne]

On 3/4/2020 at 2:37 PM, Relic said:

I'm not watching much of anything anymore so if there is a better acted, directed, and shot show that this airing right now can someone let me know what it is? Previous fav show was Succession s2. 

It's the best show on TV, IMHO, and has been for a while. It's one of those ones that really stays with you, and not in a bad way (like a certain adaptation of a book series we all know).

I think they spent the whole podcast for this episode talking about the yodeling ants, but it was a fun listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-call-saul-insider-podcast/id966297954

[Le Cygne]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:27 AM, SeanF said:

I like Kim.  I like the fact she is basically decent but not a girl scout.

Yeah, me, too. Kim is trying to do the "right thing" and it's not working for her, either. Life is a struggle like that, so what they are going through is very relatable.

She tries to make things up to the man in the house, and he doesn't believe her. Just like nobody believed Jimmy when he was trying to be good. (I also like how they showed her breaking in to his fence, like she's done this before. All these little subtle glimpses into her past.)

So then she gets to where Jimmy was feeling before with the bottle on the edge, and she not only knocks it over, she throws it off. So they are bad together. It's a moment of understanding. Where they each go from this (and may choose different paths) will be interesting.

The struggle will continue and we know he's losing it. How far does she go, and what gives them both some resolution in the end is just very compelling to watch.

[RumHam]

On 3/4/2020 at 12:49 PM, Cas Stark said:

Will Nacho get out alive?  I actually have significantly more sympathy for him than I do for Kim at this point.  Agree 3 guys trying to jump Mike would have been more realistic.

I was figuring he would be killed, but thinking about it Saul has to learn about Ed the vacuum cleaner guy at some point. Hopefully cause Nacho uses him to get out alive. 

[Cas Stark]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:09 PM, RumHam said:

I was figuring he would be killed, but thinking about it Saul has to learn about Ed the vacuum cleaner guy at some point. Hopefully cause Nacho uses him to get out alive. 

I doub it will happen because VG is more about payoff than he is 'subverting expectations' but it isn't impossible that Kim gets the tragic ending instead of Nacho. I'm interested what they do w/Lalo because Saul thinks he's still alive during BB but he never appears and I don't think? anyone ever references him, maybe Mike will disappear him.....

[Consigliere]

21 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I doub it will happen because VG is more about payoff than he is 'subverting expectations' but it isn't impossible that Kim gets the tragic ending instead of Nacho. I'm interested what they do w/Lalo because Saul thinks he's still alive during BB but he never appears and I don't think? anyone ever references him, maybe Mike will disappear him.....

Lalo's fate may have been indirectly referenced in BB when Gus taunts Hector about him being the last male Salamanca after Jesse had killed Hector's grandson. Although Gilligan could think up something to get around that if he has further plans for the character. 

[dbunting]

On 3/7/2020 at 9:48 AM, Le Cygne said:

Gene story will be interesting! I have a feeling Kim will be back next season (or maybe I just hope she will be).

As Gene he uses a Kansas City Royals lunch bag, and that's her team. They said they deliberately had her wear a KC Royals shirt.

Found a pic of the Royals bag! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9GM3ucVoAEjoRr?format=jpg

It would be interesting and a bit heart breaking if the last shot of the series is Gene looking out his window (or at a park) staring at someone and we see it's Kim with her husband and kid or two. He see's what could have been.

But, since Gene's first inclination when the cab driver called him out was to run, and if Kim was there in KC I don't think he would be so quick to run. So I doubt she is there.

[SeanF]

On 3/8/2020 at 9:31 PM, Cas Stark said:

I doub it will happen because VG is more about payoff than he is 'subverting expectations' but it isn't impossible that Kim gets the tragic ending instead of Nacho. I'm interested what they do w/Lalo because Saul thinks he's still alive during BB but he never appears and I don't think? anyone ever references him, maybe Mike will disappear him.....

If Kim gets a tragic ending, I think it will be her going to jail for cutting the wrong corner, rather than her being murdered.

[Cas Stark]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

If Kim gets a tragic ending, I think it will be her going to jail for cutting the wrong corner, rather than her being murdered.

I can't see her going to prison, but I would be surprised if this latest idea of having Jimmy rep the old guy doesn't result in her losing her current  job... which may get her to see that she can't really straddle the two worlds, that of the pro bono do gooder and the corporate lawyer the way she wants to.  I would assume there will be something unexpected in what happens to Kim, beyond 'she leaves Jimmy and ABQ' since that was something that has been baked into the cake since the show started.  

I don't really like what they are doing with Mike because he's in worse shape emotionally than he was during BB, where he was just a super cynical almost dead eyed badass, but now he's suicidal, and so for what reason will he pull himself together again?.  He's been doing nothing but half measures which he supposedly learned NOT to do back in his cop days.  I love Mike but his storylines are not feeling very authentic to me.  

[Über]

I still can't believe Mike is an actual racist.

[Le Cygne]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:09 PM, RumHam said:

I was figuring he would be killed, but thinking about it Saul has to learn about Ed the vacuum cleaner guy at some point. Hopefully cause Nacho uses him to get out alive. 

Oh I hope so. I'm really afraid his father will die. When it seemed like it this season, I almost lost it. Just watching Nacho's face when he thought it would happen! It's like Hitchcock said, just show the audience the look on their faces, and we'll imagine worse than anything that could be shown.

[Le Cygne]

On 3/10/2020 at 7:12 AM, SeanF said:

If Kim gets a tragic ending, I think it will be her going to jail for cutting the wrong corner, rather than her being murdered.

It could be she just up and leaves. And he never forgets her. He's in Omaha, Nebraska as Gene. She's in... where could she be (assuming the worst doesn't happen)? Maybe he doesn't know where she is. Oh I just thought of that song that played when he's Gene, Address Unknown.

 

[SeanF]

On 3/13/2020 at 11:55 PM, Le Cygne said:

It could be she just up and leaves. And he never forgets her. He's in Omaha, Nebraska as Gene. She's in... where could she be (assuming the worst doesn't happen)? Maybe he doesn't know where she is. Oh I just thought of that song that played when he's Gene, Address Unknown.

 

After Episode 5, I think we've reached a watershed.  Saul has corrupted Kim.  Gus has corrupted Mike.  Not so much in the case of the latter (he's much further down that road already).  But, I think we've reached a point where Kim will now cut any corner to achieve her ends. Will she pull back from it, or will she go down to the bitter end?

[Cas Stark]

18 minutes ago, SeanF said:

After Episode 5, I think we've reached a watershed.  Saul has corrupted Kim.  Gus has corrupted Mike.

Yeah.  I have a very, very bad feeling that one way or the other, we're going to see a tragic outcome for Kim's dipshit idea of using Jimmy's con man strategy to help the old man. 

[SeanF]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah.  I have a very, very bad feeling that one way or the other, we're going to see a tragic outcome for Kim's dipshit idea of using Jimmy's con man strategy to help the old man. 

Compare it to the Abomination.  

Corruption is not something that happens over the course of two episodes.  If a sympathetic character is corrupted, it ought to take a season or two.  Kim is a  nice person, but she is not flawless.  Potentially, she fulfils the role of Aristotle's tragic hero, a person who is brought down due to some fatal flaw in their character, rather than inherent depravity. 

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Compare it to the Abomination.  

Corruption is not something that happens over the course of two episodes.  If a sympathetic character is corrupted, it ought to take a season or two.  Kim is a  nice person, but she is not flawless.  Potentially, she fulfils the role of Aristotle's tragic hero, a person who is brought down due to some fatal flaw in their character, rather than inherent depravity. 

Yes, more than any show that comes to my mind BCS shows how all the little compromises eventually add up to a big change, you keep breaking the rules and your own rules for 'reasons' and one day, you look in the mirror and you're a different person.