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Game of Thrones deaths won't match books, George R.R. Martin says

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5 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

He may be talking about big players, such as Olenna, Mance Rayder, Doran, etc. or he could be talking about small players, such as Rakharo, Grenn, Pyp, etc. Anything’s possible with this man.

Exactly. I am a huge Stannis fan in the books (and the show). So of course, I want him to make it. I don't think he ever would. But I could dream....

My money would be on Sandsnakes though. Possibly Jeyne Westerling..

Then probably a fair amount of the minor characters that aren't as important..

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Since the books won't come out this century, I doubt it matters. :rolleyes:

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On 8/16/2018 at 7:57 AM, btfu806 said:

https://www.cnet.com/news/george-r-r-martin-some-game-of-thrones-tv-deaths-wont-happen-in-books/

Interesting article. Of course, now I wonder who it will be but my natural thoughts are it has to do with the Sandsnakes. Just since the show wanted to kill off that plot as fast as possible (and with good reason). 

My thoughts go first to Pyp & Grenn. They're in the way of the show's narative, but in ASOIAF they have a role still.

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20 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Since the books won't come out this century, I doubt it matters. :rolleyes:

lol true, and he pulls a robert jordan to get someone else to write the books...

 

18 hours ago, honeyed chicken said:

My thoughts go first to Pyp & Grenn. They're in the way of the show's narative, but in ASOIAF they have a role still.

That would make a lot of sense as well. I completely forgot about them...

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On 8/17/2018 at 5:56 PM, honeyed chicken said:

My thoughts go first to Pyp & Grenn. They're in the way of the show's narative, but in ASOIAF they have a role still.

So did the show.

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I'm curious about two other characters: LF and Barristan Selmy. Probably both will die, but not as early as in the show, and maybe not till the end?

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17 hours ago, honeyed chicken said:

I'm curious about two other characters: LF and Barristan Selmy. Probably both will die, but not as early as in the show, and maybe not till the end?

IMO LF's downfall has to be a lot different than it was on the show. And I agree about Selmy, I want him going down a much "cooler" or better way. I couldn't stand how the show did it.

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41 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

IMO LF's downfall has to be a lot different than it was on the show. And I agree about Selmy, I want him going down a much "cooler" or better way. I couldn't stand how the show did it.

Exactly my thoughts. When/if he dies in the books it ought to be a "better" death than the show gives him.

And what about the death of Walder Frey? Most fans want him to die, but will he? To me, it seemed too easy in the show. I have a feeling that if he actually does die, it will be a whole lot messier than that.

And then there's Mance Rayder. In ASOIAF his death at Castle Black is faked. At the end of ADWD, Ramsay Bolton claims to have him alive in a cage. It's possible show Mance isn't really dead either, but I suspect he is, while book Mance may still have a role to play in the WF saga.

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1 minute ago, honeyed chicken said:

Exactly my thoughts. When/if he dies in the books it ought to be a "better" death than the show gives him.

And what about the death of Walder Frey? Most fans want him to die, but will he? To me, it seemed too easy in the show. I have a feeling that if he actually does die, it will be a whole lot messier than that.

And then there's Mance Rayder. In ASOIAF his death at Castle Black is faked. At the end of ADWD, Ramsay Bolton claims to have him alive in a cage. It's possible show Mance isn't really dead either, but I suspect he is, while book Mance may still have a role to play in the WF saga.

Walder Frey won't die like that, he will probably die of old age or something. Not a fan justice death but a death that would make sense. On top of that, to me that whole scene with the frey pie proves (to me) that the show writers or creators listen to fan theories. Since the Frey Pie theory has been a popular theory out there.

 

Mance I think in the books is going to have a prominent role still. IDK if he will make it out of TWOW but his whole plot line is so interesting. I also think he wrote the pink letter so I think his character still has a long complicated thing going on.

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3 hours ago, btfu806 said:

Walder Frey won't die like that, he will probably die of old age or something. Not a fan justice death but a death that would make sense. On top of that, to me that whole scene with the frey pie proves (to me) that the show writers or creators listen to fan theories. Since the Frey Pie theory has been a popular theory out there.

 

Mance I think in the books is going to have a prominent role still. IDK if he will make it out of TWOW but his whole plot line is so interesting. I also think he wrote the pink letter so I think his character still has a long complicated thing going on.

Two interesting points!

I had forgotten the Frey pie was a fan theory. I could also see him dying while trying to plant yet another potential heir in some young wife's belly.

This is fascinating. I'm sure the idea of Mance writing the pink letter has been mentioned in other threads, but I missed it. That would be kind of a cool twist.

Are Ramsay and Roose Bolton really dead? Probably yes, but Martin's plots are so much more convoluted than  GOT's. While I can't imagine what use Martin would put them too - I'm sure he could come up with something entertaining.  :P

The idea that Stannis would die at Brienne's sword is not one I can buy - that's just too neat and Martin rarely does neat - he does unexpected.

Edited by honeyed chicken

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4 minutes ago, honeyed chicken said:

The idea that Stannis would die at Brienne's sword is not one I can buy - that's just too neat and Martin rarely does neat - he does unexpected.

Don't even get me started on this. Stannis would never go out that way. I am sorry. I chalk that up to the whole D&D pissed off women so they were trying to make them bad-ass. Thing that was going on...

On top of that, I was re watching season 4 episode 10 last night when Brianne and The Hound fight. That whole thing was stupid too.

6 minutes ago, honeyed chicken said:

This is fascinating. I'm sure the idea of Mance writing the pink letter has been mentioned in other threads, but I missed it. That would be kind of a cool twist.

Preston on YouTube has a whole thing about it. I have read a few other theories on it too. No idea who was first. But when they really break it down. It makes sense when you see all the clues. Or well, makes sense to me...

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6 minutes ago, honeyed chicken said:

 

The idea that Stannis would die at Brienne's sword is not one I can buy - that's just too neat and Martin rarely does neat - he does unexpected.

It wasn’t even that neat. D&D just don’t like Stannis and turned Sansa into a plot device for Theon.

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6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

It wasn’t even that neat. D&D just don’t like Stannis and turned Sansa into a plot device for Theon.

One of the things that always bothered me was during the commentary of the Loot Train episode in the last season that D&D commented how it was the first time in a battle that you didn't know who to root for. 

All I could think was ... uhhh Stannis? Every battle (in my eyes) was a battle where I wanted him to win because I like him, but I get the casual reader/viewer wouldn't be sure.

I never will understand why they see him as a villain. 

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28 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

All I could think was ... uhhh Stannis? Every battle (in my eyes) was a battle where I wanted him to win because I like him, but I get the casual reader/viewer wouldn't be sure.

I never wanted him to win. He was a likable person, but with the wrong loyalty to Melisandre, with the wrong reasons to fight. If not for Melisandre, Stannis might have fought for the right thing.

Sacrificing his sweet daughter Shireen by burning her alive on a stake was so utterly cruel and despicable, so devoid of any last humane core, just blinded by stupid faith in Melisandre. Who on earth can like a Stannis like in that scene?

31 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

I never will understand why they see him as a villain. 

No, he is not a real villain. He is a victim to religious blindedness, to a lack of reason, a lack of love to his daughter. He followed the wrong person. 

But judging his character, I would say: Too weak. He messed up being a proper father. Unforgivable.

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25 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I never wanted him to win. He was a likable person, but with the wrong loyalty to Melisandre, with the wrong reasons to fight. If not for Melisandre, Stannis might have fought for the right thing.

Sacrificing his sweet daughter Shireen by burning her alive on a stake was so utterly cruel and despicable, so devoid of any last humane core, just blinded by stupid faith in Melisandre. Who on earth can like a Stannis like in that scene?

No, he is not a real villain. He is a victim to religious blindedness, to a lack of reason, a lack of love to his daughter. He followed the wrong person. 

But judging his character, I would say: Too weak. He messed up being a proper father. Unforgivable.

It's funny that you find him a likable person. I think most wouldn't. But that's interesting!

What do you mean by wrong reasons to fight? He fought because he believed he was the true heir to Westeros and had a good claim to the crown (or a decent enough claim). I also don't understand what you mean by religious blindness (though I could get it more with some of the actions the show made him do that's not in the books). In the books, he is not a victim of religious blindness, he doesn't really believe in the Lord of Light or Mel. He believes he has gotten screwed out of everything so he is willing to try this person who obviously has power to try to get him the crown. (In a clash of kings Davos and him talk about this). 

As far as burning Shireen, that happens way after the second season when Stannis fights at Blackwater bay (the first instance I would say where you don't know who to root for). Second, as far as burning his daughter, I know that GRRM supposedly told D&D that for the show, but I honestly don't get how he goes that far in the books. It doesn't make sense (and didn't make sense in the show either). Maybe he does it in in the books but being a good father was the one redeeming factor of Stannis in the books.

In the books you definitely don't know what way to go with Stannis, if he is good or not.  But since the beginning, D&D always made him to be the villain and it never made sense in my eyes. He doesn't do anything in the books for you to say, "Yep, he's a bad guy."

 

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2 hours ago, honeyed chicken said:

I had forgotten the Frey pie was a fan theory. I could also see him dying while trying to plant yet another potential heir in some young wife's belly.

They kinda laid the foundation for it already in season 4(?) when Bran told the ghost story about a cook who was punished by the gods for killing a guests son and baking him into a pie which he proceeded to feed the guest with. He wasn't punished for murder, but for breaking guest right. 

I can see this happening in the books as well.

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2 hours ago, KingMudd said:

I think Rickon will survive in the books and that Jon has taken his storyline in the show.

Yeah I have no idea about Rickon. I still think he dies but not in the same way.

 

2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

They kinda laid the foundation for it already in season 4(?) when Bran told the ghost story about a cook who was punished by the gods for killing a guests son and baking him into a pie which he proceeded to feed the guest with. He wasn't punished for murder, but for breaking guest right. 

I can see this happening in the books as well.

I don't remember that story at all. Ugh I have to rewatch some things obviously. And Frey pie theory in the books would have already happened. At Ramsey's wedding. So it could happen again like it did in the show. Be weird if it happened twice but who knows, wouldn't be the first time something has happened multiple times. 

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