honorable men Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I think I wouldn't been as nice as Tywin was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 As shitty as it sounds you have to put your own House first. Houses Reyne and Tarbeck would have run his House into the ground had Tywin let them keep living. House Targaryen are a threat to his grandchildren, House Baratheon are trying to usurp his grandchildren, and the rest are a casualty of his dickhead grandchild Joffrey's inability to think ahead. Its really not much different from House Stark killing off minor northern Kings and assimilating their daughters into House Stark, and their killing of House Greystark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 If you offer mercy then (hopefully) you can expect mercy in return, the inverse is also true. I can't remember who made it but I saw a video that suggested that Tywin broke the social code of conduct in Westero over the years resulting in much bloodier war. WHile it can be argued that the Rains of Castamere and The Red Wedding stopped violence the turned up the stacked to eleven. In The Sworn Sword we meet Eustace Osgrey. He fought for the Blacks but afterwards he lost some lands and control over a River. When you lose nowadays in Westero you and your whole House might get Rains of Castamere'd. So everyone is fighting with much more desperation. As others have pointed out the Red Wedding seems to have broken faith in Guest Right making negotiations much harder. So Tywin's actions seems to have cause large scale societal damage and be pretty iffy moraly. After all if someone has well and truly beaten the Lannisters won't they kill all the lions they can "just to be sure" or whatever? If you have uppity bannermen beat them down, take some wards and keep an eye on them. The wholesale slaughter tactic will bite you in the ass sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 First,he didn't exterminated House Baratheon. Second, we don't have any evidence that he wanted to exterminate Darries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, Kandrax said: First,he didn't exterminated House Baratheon. Second, we don't have any evidence that he wanted to exterminate Darries. He did want to exterminate house Baratheon because he was trying to kill Renly and stanis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Sensenmenn said: He did want to exterminate house Baratheon because he was trying to kill Renly and stanis. Renly and Stannis are, from Tywin's PoW, usurpers accusing his children of incest. Wanting to kill them seem fine to me, unless they surrender or something. They are adults so they can make choices and live or die with the consequences. If Tywin was planning on killing Stannis' heir Shireen as-well only then it would be a attempted extermination of a House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Only Tarbeck, Reyne and Whent (are they?) are extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 1 hour ago, The Sunland Lord said: Only Tarbeck, Reyne and Whent (are they?) are extinct. Lady Whent is alive I think? Last I remember she and her remaining house hold guard abandoned Harrenhal before Tywin could arrive to take it by force. Im not sure what happened to her afterwards though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Sensenmenn said: He did want to exterminate house Baratheon because he was trying to kill Renly and stanis. Legally, Joffrey and his siblings are Baratheons, so he would need to kill them 2 hours ago, Stormking902 said: Lady Whent is alive I think? Last I remember she and her remaining house hold guard abandoned Harrenhal before Tywin could arrive to take it by force. Im not sure what happened to her afterwards though. Yes, i think. There is also wife of Danwell Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Kandrax said: Legally, Joffrey and his siblings are Baratheons, so he would need to kill them Legally doesn't matter the blood is the house and they have none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Stormking902 said: Lady Whent is alive I think? Last I remember she and her remaining house hold guard abandoned Harrenhal before Tywin could arrive to take it by force. Im not sure what happened to her afterwards though. Littlefinger reports that Shella has died, but we have no idea where she had gone or how she passed away. Quote "Has someone made a song about Gregor Clegane dying of a poisoned spear thrust? Or about the sellsword before him, whose limbs Ser Gregor removed a joint at a time? That one took the castle from Ser Amory Lorch, who received it from Lord Tywin. A bear killed one, your dwarf the other. Lady Whent's died as well, I hear. Lothstons, Strongs, Harroways, Strongs . . . Harrenhal has withered every hand to touch it." (AFFC Alayne I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss1 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 18 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said: If you offer mercy then (hopefully) you can expect mercy in return, the inverse is also true. I can't remember who made it but I saw a video that suggested that Tywin broke the social code of conduct in Westero over the years resulting in much bloodier war. WHile it can be argued that the Rains of Castamere and The Red Wedding stopped violence the turned up the stacked to eleven. In The Sworn Sword we meet Eustace Osgrey. He fought for the Blacks but afterwards he lost some lands and control over a River. When you lose nowadays in Westero you and your whole House might get Rains of Castamere'd. So everyone is fighting with much more desperation. As others have pointed out the Red Wedding seems to have broken faith in Guest Right making negotiations much harder. So Tywin's actions seems to have cause large scale societal damage and be pretty iffy moraly. After all if someone has well and truly beaten the Lannisters won't they kill all the lions they can "just to be sure" or whatever? If you have uppity bannermen beat them down, take some wards and keep an eye on them. The wholesale slaughter tactic will bite you in the ass sooner or later. If an injury is to be inflicted on an enemy, it is to be so severe, that the enemy’s retaliation need not be feared. – Niccolò Machiavelli Killing his rebellious bannermen was the right call even the Starks did that once in a while, remember the greystarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 10 hours ago, Sensenmenn said: Legally doesn't matter the blood is the house and they have none. As far as Tywin and majority know they are Baratheons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron Lannister Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 as for the reyne-Tarback allaince, you can see with house bolto and the starks what happens if you don't deal hart enough with rebelling houses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 House Tarbeck's the only one that really counts, the Reynes all died because he chose a more expedient way of getting rid of them, the Targaryens he just killed the heirs in the city, everyone else are just on the brink because great noble houses have like 6 people in them. It's not like Tywin goes on lineage exterminating rampages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 On 8/17/2018 at 12:27 AM, Ylath's Snout said: I can't remember who made it but I saw a video that suggested that Tywin broke the social code of conduct in Westero over the years resulting in much bloodier war. This. For years, we have been arguing this. Tywin breaking the social code of conduct in Westeros, especially with condoning the breaking of the guest right. True, he won the war, but how many millions of people would die in future wars because negotiations and mutual trust in respecting certain rules are off table now. That is why Freys and Boltons "need" to be punished. Because the damage is not just in killing some Northerners. The damage is in breaking the rule that probably saved millions, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, Risto said: That is why Freys and Boltons "need" to be punished. Because the damage is not just in killing some Northerners. The damage is in breaking the rule that probably saved millions, Going by that logic is Tywin on top of the list of people that need punishment? Although I suppose two of his children commit incest, all of his grandchildren being "abominations", only having a dwarf for a legal heir and getting merced by said dwarf heir is pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: Going by that logic is Tywin on top of the list of people that need punishment? Although I suppose two of his children commit incest, all of his grandchildren being "abominations", only having a dwarf for a legal heir and getting merced by said dwarf heir is pretty bad. Do remind me how did Tywin end. His son, a glorious specimen of a man and a knight, is a cripple with terrible reputation. His daughter has been dragged naked through streets. His house is in disarray, his brother has been just killed by his enemy and his other son, the son that he hated and the one that killed him is plotting against the rest of the family. Everything Tywing worked has gone down the drains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Risto said: Everything Tywing worked has gone down the drains. If it came out that Tywin was involved with the Red Wedding somehow I wonder if all of Tywin's misery would be interpreted was divine punishment for his Guest Right breaking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Ylath's Snout said: If it came out that Tywin was involved with the Red Wedding somehow I wonder if all of Tywin's misery would be interpreted was divine punishment for his Guest Right breaking? On some certain way, it can be interpreted that way. We have not been told the story of Rat Cook for nothing. And even though I doubt Martin will ever do "divine punishment" we have enough to conclude that it was such a big "no-no" that nothing good would come for those involved in RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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