honorable men Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Would people share the same hatred to the Freys(boltons&lannisters) to the Starks instead? or is there some double standard here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkz Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 If Starks turned the wedding into a slaughter on the Frey’s I’d lose respect for both Robb and Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, honorable men said: Would people share the same hatred to the Freys(boltons&lannisters) to the Starks instead? or is there some double standard here? Do you mean a) If the Starks instead of the Freys pulled a RW would it be as bad? or b) If the Starks pulled a vengeance-RW would it be just as despicable as the OG RW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honorable men Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Just now, Sigella said: Do you mean a) If the Starks instead of the Freys pulled a RW would it be as bad? or b) If the Starks pulled a vengeance-RW would it be just as despicable as the go RW? I would go with A for now but for B, as vengeance, (would include pretty much everyone that a had a hand in the RW. ) Later on... maybe 5-10-20-50 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honorable men Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Like it or not, The Freys built a strategic stronghold that is vital lifeline to the North. It would be tempting for a Stark Loyalist to hold the lands.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Doesn't matter that they are named Frey. It matters that they murdered house-guests under false pretenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Just now, honorable men said: I would go with A for now but for B, as vengeance, (would include pretty much everyone that a had a hand in the RW. ) Later on... maybe 5-10-20-50 years from now. Ok. if A: Robb as King carries more juridical weight than Walder, but if he'd break guest right towards the Freys at RR under the guise of a truce he'd probably get his head sewn to Grey Winds body justifiably (in-world) if B: much trickier, since murder rarely have a statute of limitations (at least in Sweden) but justice and vengeance do differ so THAT is a really good topic for discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honorable men Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 ***When I say B, I include EVERYONE and their in-laws, brother, sister, kids, uncles, aunts, grand kids, etc basically your entire Kins and everyone else in your house and everyone that is associated with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 57 minutes ago, honorable men said: ***When I say B, I include EVERYONE and their in-laws, brother, sister, kids, uncles, aunts, grand kids, etc basically your entire Kins and everyone else in your house and everyone that is associated with them... You think B equals a complete eradication of all Frey descendants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honorable men Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sigella said: You think B equals a complete eradication of all Frey descendants? Thats what the mob wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Just now, honorable men said: Thats what the mob wants You decide this topic, not the mob. (unless they are holding you at gun point) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 King Robb orchestrating a "Grey" wedding to kill/capture a bunch of Freys and other families with the same level of "justification" then that would be really dirty of him. To use a wrestling term it be one hell of a "Heel turn". That is assuming close to identical circumstances of course, if Robb turned the table on Walder after he learn of his plot of something is different. The Starks killing Frey while under Guest Right in the future would be pretty shady but not as wrong as the original. Walder's action have effectively made all Freys outlaws. Given Westerosi morals killing outlaws is more or less totally fine no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, honorable men said: Like it or not, The Freys built a strategic stronghold that is vital lifeline to the North. It would be tempting for a Stark Loyalist to hold the lands.... This is a good observation. The one thing is that WotN could easily tax traders crossing Moat Cailin and White Harbor if they wanted to swell their coffers, probably ruining the Twins right there if they wanted to, esp if the Vale and Riverrrun followed suit, which they would be legally bound to if commanded. Also being one of the trade "choke holds" of the North it is a very tempting prize to any enemy of whomever rules the North. Robb was dumb in many other regards but snubbing Rosling was his big blunder. At the same time it is quite lame imo not to expect revenge for violating guest right and desecrating cropses of unsuspecting allies. If the Freys has a right to their revenge so does the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 H&H Magnum Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 hours ago, honorable men said: Would people share the same hatred to the Freys(boltons&lannisters) to the Starks instead? or is there some double standard here? I already do not like the Starks. But to answer your question, for some on this forum, it will be double-standard. To tell you the truth, put the Starks in the same position as the Freys and they may do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, 300 H&H Magnum said: I already do not like the Starks. But to answer your question, for some on this forum, it will be double-standard. To tell you the truth, put the Starks in the same position as the Freys and they may do the same thing. The Starks would need a complete personality transplant to even consider it. That is why it was so successful in the first place. It never even occurred to the Starks that anybody would do such a thing. As for one done in revenge, as a Stark fan I would be quite disappointed. If it was wrong when the Freys did it, and it was, it is still wrong if Stoneheart & co. do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Nevets said: As for one done in revenge, as a Stark fan I would be quite disappointed. I think that is a good word for it, disappointed. IMHO it would be "less" wrong as some Freys escalated things to the point that Red Weddings aren't unthinkable anymore but it would deffenetly be disappointing. The first one to draw a knife in a fist fight can't complain as much if they wind up stabbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said: I already do not like the Starks. But to answer your question, for some on this forum, it will be double-standard. To tell you the truth, put the Starks in the same position as the Freys and they may do the same thing. Lmao the Starks would have did a RW? Your nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 hours ago, honorable men said: ***When I say B, I include EVERYONE and their in-laws, brother, sister, kids, uncles, aunts, grand kids, etc basically your entire Kins and everyone else in your house and everyone that is associated with them... This is a very iffy what if you present. I'll call it, 'what iffy'. Short answer is, it would be a completely different story. Because from what we know of these characters makes it virtually impossible for them to pull a RW on anyone. And no, I'm not at all saying they're too nice for that. But just that this type of thing is really not how they operate. And the worst of the RW is not even the deaths of those at the feast, but the common soldiers being trapped in their tents to burn alive? Nope, really don't see it. Guts hanging from a heart tree? Hell yeah. The RW is something altogether different. It's not for nothing that we are told about the Reynes and Tarbecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said: Walder's action have effectively made all Freys outlaws. I can't aggree with that. This way of thinking never brought anything good. Does this include innocent children? Using that logic, are all Germans (even children) outlaws thanks to Hitler, or Croats thanks to Pavelic, or Serbs thanks to Milosevic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 7 hours ago, honorable men said: Like it or not, The Freys built a strategic stronghold that is vital lifeline to the North. It would be tempting for a Stark Loyalist to hold the lands.... It's not critical unless they invade the riverlands and end up trapped on the wrong side of the trident. That's happened, what, once (maybe twice) in the last 300 years? Traffic going north is going to travel up the kingsroad or into white harbor for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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