King's Landing's riot

[Lady Winter Rose]

Is it possible Tyrekk Lannister or whatever his name was, the one disappeared in riot, was just a victim of regular riot or Varys really had it's fingers in that riot? As far as we know, Varys was just absent from entourage, busy in some other scheme, no?

[Stormking902]

His body would have turned up at least, so my guess is Varys does have him hidden away some where. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

The riot was just the dissatisfaction of the people being expressed.  I don't think Varyz orchestrated it.

 

[Euron III Greyjoy]

I don't think the riot was set up specifically so Varys could nab Tyrek, but I do feel like Varys could have taken advantage of the situation. It would be like how Stannis wanted Jon Snow so that he could have a Stark on his side. Maybe Varys took Tyrek so Aegon could have a Lannister on his side. 

It just seems weird to me how much Tyrek gets brought up considering what a nothing character he was. 

[John Suburbs]

It doesn't seem that the riot was staged. It's pretty hard to involve a mass number of people in a conspiracy. And yet, when Joffrey throws gold coins at the woman with the dead baby, she ignores them. Maybe she is just in deep grief, but it is gold after all. So mayhaps she was a plant, and the dung thrower as well, with the idea that the city is ripe for a minor disturbance to escalate into a full-blown riot -- and that certainly sounds like something Varys would do.

But I don't think we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that Varys then grabbed Tyrek. Tyrek was one of Robert's pages, along with Lancel. We don't know for certain if Tyrek was with Robert on the hunt, but it is certainly possible. That would mean Tyrek probably knows how the king died, and why. So Cersei could very well have taken the opportunity to remove a witness to her crime. Also interesting is the fact the Ser Preston Greenfield, who was also present at the bore hunt, was killed in the riot as well.

[Rufus Snow]

35 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

It doesn't seem that the riot was staged. It's pretty hard to involve a mass number of people in a conspiracy. And yet, when Joffrey throws gold coins at the woman with the dead baby, she ignores them. Maybe she is just in deep grief, but it is gold after all. So mayhaps she was a plant, and the dung thrower as well, with the idea that the city is ripe for a minor disturbance to escalate into a full-blown riot -- and that certainly sounds like something Varys would do.

Actually, it was just a single silver, but I take your point because men in the crowd started fighting over it after the woman ignored it.... It could well have been a set-up. Immediately before that we have clear signs that there was trouble brewing:

 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion IX

They crossed Fishmonger's Square and rode along Muddy Way before turning onto the narrow, curving Hook to begin their climb up Aegon's High Hill. A few voices raised a cry of "Joffrey! All hail, all hail!" as the young king rode by, but for every man who picked up the shout, a hundred kept their silence. The Lannisters moved through a sea of ragged men and hungry women, breasting a tide of sullen eyes. Just ahead of him, Cersei was laughing at something Lancel had said, though he suspected her merriment was feigned. She could not be oblivious to the unrest around them, but his sister always believed in putting on the brave show.

 

so when the woman steps out and only Sansa's intervention prevents Joff 'riding her down', it provided the final spark for it to kick off. That dung-thrower may well have been a plant, and it sure did the trick...

 

35 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

But I don't think we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that Varys then grabbed Tyrek. Tyrek was one of Robert's pages, along with Lancel. We don't know for certain if Tyrek was with Robert on the hunt, but it is certainly possible. That would mean Tyrek probably knows how the king died, and why. So Cersei could very well have taken the opportunity to remove a witness to her crime. Also interesting is the fact the Ser Preston Greenfield, who was also present at the bore hunt, was killed in the riot as well.

If Tyrek's disappearance was about his role in the boar hunt, we might expect Lancel to have gone the same way, the opportunity was just too juicy to ignore. I keep wondering if 'Wetnurse' didn't just run off, fearing consequences of the boar hunt story coming to light, and also just damn sick of his wife's constant bawling We also know there is a strand of wanderlust in the Lannister psyche, what with Gerion, Tyrion and Tommen II.

[The Sleeper]

His absence from the procession suggests that at the least he suspected that trouble was possible. Staging would not pose much difficulty, it does not seem however the best circumstances to achieve reliable results. It might seem like a good opportunity to get away with an abduction or an assassination or two, but riots are unpredictable. 

36 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

If Tyrek's disappearance was about his role in the boar hunt, we might expect Lancel to have gone the same way, the opportunity was just too juicy to ignore. I keep wondering if 'Wetnurse' didn't just run off, fearing consequences of the boar hunt story coming to light, and also just damn sick of his wife's constant bawling We also know there is a strand of wanderlust in the Lannister psyche, what with Gerion, Tyrion and Tommen II.

That is a good idea. Given that he was fourteen and an orphan he might have become disillusioned and frightened by his inclusion in his relatives schemes. I think he may have ended up beneath the house of Black and White, being the suicide Arya found beneath the Stranger when she was blind. 

[bemused]

4 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

I think he may have ended up beneath the house of Black and White, being the suicide Arya found beneath the Stranger when she was blind. 

Interesting idea, but I have doubts ... I have a feeling the suicide was more likely tied to the Blackfyres, somehow...

Being blind, everything is black for Arya, yet she knows (by her sense of smell) that the candle would have bathed his body in "a ruddy glow" ... without GRRM saying so outright, black and red are hinted at.

Later, when she is stripping the young man's body....  

Quote

The old woman had no purse, no wealth at all but for a ring on one thin finger. On the handsome man she found four golden dragons out of Westeros. She was running the ball of her thumb across the most worn of them, trying to decide which king it showed, when she heard the door opening softly behind her.

... ADWD, The Blind Girl

... Although she can now identify a lot by touch, she's rubbing her thumb over the most worn of the Westerosi dragons she finds on his person, trying to decide which king it represents... GRRM doesn't tell us whether all the coins were kept in a pouch or pocket or whether the one was kept separate from the others, like a talisman or a keepsake.

These are questions that interest me because when I read that passage, I couldn't help but think about Dunk, in The Mystery Knight... 

Quote

Dunk took a closer look. The face on the coin was young, clean-shaved, handsome. King Aerys was bearded on his coins, the same as old King Aegon. King Daeron, who'd come between them, had been clean-shaved, but this wasn't him. The coin did not appear worn enough to be from before Aegon the Unworthy. Dunk scowled at the word beneath the head. Six letters. They looked the same as he had seen on other dragons. DAERON, the letters read, but Dunk knew the face of Daeron the Good, and this wasn't him. When he looked again, he saw that something odd about the shape of the fourth letter, it wasn't… "Daemon," he blurted out. "It says Daemon. There never was any King Daemon, though, only—"

"—the Pretender. Daemon Blackfyre struck his own coinage during his rebellion."

Dunk's coin does not appear very worn, but Arya is musing over her coin 150 yrs. later...

So I  suspect Tyrek is alive somewhere. Every once in a while some character mentions him - so that we'll be sure to think about his disappearance.

And I think it's very reasonable to assume he was with Robert on the boar hunt, and thus may know enough that others - for various reasons- wouldn't want him speaking out.(

I lean toward Varys' involvement, because if it was Cersei, Tyrek probably would have been killed "in the riot" (Of course, if LF was involved, someone should be scouring his brothels.)

[Rufus Snow]

3 hours ago, bemused said:

So I  suspect Tyrek is alive somewhere. Every once in a while some character mentions him - so that we'll be sure to think about his disappearance

I think you're right on this - too many people seem to care, and I like your thinking about the coins... hmmm, I think you've set tonight's re-reading agenda ...

[The Sleeper]

4 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

I think you're right on this - too many people seem to care, and I like your thinking about the coins... hmmm, I think you've set tonight's re-reading agenda ...

Well, if he is the suicide, his face would be due for a reappearance. Basically, the description of the suicide doesn't exclude him, being a young handsome, wealthy Westerosi with curly hair and him being the most prominent unaccounted person we have (other than Benjen). 

[rotting sea cow]

On 8/19/2018 at 1:25 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The riot was just the dissatisfaction of the people being expressed.  I don't think Varyz orchestrated it.

 

Indeed, the riot was about to happen anyway. Nevertheless, in such circumstances it is very easy to set up few provocateurs to achieve an intended purpose. We see it all the time in our real world. Even the most peaceful demonstrations can turn violent under particular conditions. So, yes, I think Varys didn't organize it but highly likely placed some people to make it sure it happened in a way he can achieve some profit.

[Michael Snyder]

1. One, a fourteen year old page is not mature enough to run off on his own, even a Lannister. If he was at the riot and ran away, he would have gone back to the Keep.

2. He is a very fringe character (for now). Cersei tied Lancel to herself with sex, at least until he finds religion (if he does). Everyone else involved in the plot either has good reason to keep silent through fear of punishment or being silenced by Cersei's agents. There is no reason to believe Cersei had Tyrek killed. He could have even been manipulated without his knowledge.

3. What Tyrek knows, Varys already knows. And what Tyrek knows isn't important enough to kidnap him and sweat him or try to use him as evidence of the plot against Robert. Everyone involved in the developing War of the Five Kings has already formed their opinion's on this matter. There is no reason for Varys to kidnap him.

4. Even in a story as complex as GRRM has written, there are simply characters that exist as background and simply appear and disappear. Tyrek is probably such a character. 

[Sigella]

On 8/19/2018 at 12:32 AM, Lady Winter Rose said:

Is it possible Tyrekk Lannister or whatever his name was, the one disappeared in riot, was just a victim of regular riot or Varys really had it's fingers in that riot? As far as we know, Varys was just absent from entourage, busy in some other scheme, no?

I don't think he was killed due to the lack of remains and I don't think the riot was orchestrated by anyone other than Joff and Cersei's poor pr-skills, empathy and political shortcomings.

Like, who'd have thought that showing off fancy, well fed and arrogant people in front of starving masses might ever turn ugly? 

[John Suburbs]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:44 PM, Rufus Snow said:

If Tyrek's disappearance was about his role in the boar hunt, we might expect Lancel to have gone the same way, the opportunity was just too juicy to ignore. I keep wondering if 'Wetnurse' didn't just run off, fearing consequences of the boar hunt story coming to light, and also just damn sick of his wife's constant bawling We also know there is a strand of wanderlust in the Lannister psyche, what with Gerion, Tyrion and Tommen II.

Maybe not. Lancel was the one who knowingly fed Robert the strongwine, so he has just as strong a motivation to keep quiet about it as Cersei. Tyrek and Preston would have just been witnesses.

Tyrek is still a young boy, and very richly dressed, so I doubt he would choose this moment to flee into a city of starving, ragged commoners.

[Nevets]

On 8/20/2018 at 7:19 AM, Michael Snyder said:

1. One, a fourteen year old page is not mature enough to run off on his own, even a Lannister. If he was at the riot and ran away, he would have gone back to the Keep.

Of course he is.  Arya did it at age 9.  Even in real life, I have seen accounts of runaways roughly that age, especially in the late 60s, early 70s, and in the 1930s.  So it can be done.  And children in Westeros are a lot more self-reliant than their modern equivalent.  If he had money with him (he is a Lannister, after all), he could probably do just fine.  I personally think he is in Braavos, hiding out until Cersei is gone.

On 8/20/2018 at 7:19 AM, Michael Snyder said:

2. He is a very fringe character (for now). Cersei tied Lancel to herself with sex, at least until he finds religion (if he does). Everyone else involved in the plot either has good reason to keep silent through fear of punishment or being silenced by Cersei's agents. There is no reason to believe Cersei had Tyrek killed. He could have even been manipulated without his knowledge.

He may have been tasked by Cersei with something in case Lancel didn't succeed.   In any event, being Robert's quire, he likely knows about all sorts of things.

On 8/20/2018 at 7:19 AM, Michael Snyder said:

3. What Tyrek knows, Varys already knows. And what Tyrek knows isn't important enough to kidnap him and sweat him or try to use him as evidence of the plot against Robert. Everyone involved in the developing War of the Five Kings has already formed their opinion's on this matter. There is no reason for Varys to kidnap him.

Varys doenst know everything, believe it or not.  As Robert's squire, Tyrek coudl knnow quite a bit, and Cresei might have spoken to him out of earshot of Varys or his spies.  the man is not omniscient.  He just pretends to be.

On 8/20/2018 at 7:19 AM, Michael Snyder said:

4. Even in a story as complex as GRRM has written, there are simply characters that exist as background and simply appear and disappear. Tyrek is probably such a character. 

Yes, characters can just disappear.  But Tyrek has been mentioned too much.  And GRRM said in an old SSM (from 1999, I believe) that we would find out what happened to Tyrek.  While he might have changed his mind since then, i think we'll see him in the future.  I am certainly going to keep my eyes open for mysterious blond teenagers from Westeros.