Aftermath of Daenerys Campaign

[Starkz]

How will the cities Daenerys conquered be once she leaves for Westeros? So far Astapor is decimated at this point, the Yunkai still rely heavily on slaves and slave trade for the economy and Meereen is being torn apart by the Yunkai and the bloody flux is spreading.

[Sourjapes]

They'll probably be mired in anarchy and suffering for a while and then gradually revert to something like they were before Dany arrived.

[Megorova]

I think, that the moment Dany will go away, everything will return to the way it was before her reforms. Because you can't force people to strive for freedom. If they don't want to be free themselves, then they won't be able to sustain that freedom, without assistance of the outside factors. In case of Slaver's Bay, Dany is that outside factor. She was the one, who forced freedom on people, that weren't mentally ready for it. Freedom should be earned, fought for, and won, not given for free. Those people weren't ready to be free. They don't even have a concept of what a proper freedom is. They are accustomed to two sides of slavery - slaves and masters. And they don't know, how to live outside of those two patterns. Evidence of that is Astapor. Those slaves, that Dany freed, after becoming free, first thing they did, they proclaimed themselves masters and kings, and enslaved the rest of their ex-comrades. They don't have even a slightest idea, how they are supposed to live, as a free people. And nobody can teach them how to do that. So what they need, is lots of time, to progress mentally and socially. Maybe in a hundred years, or so, they will be ready to be their own masters, and not someone else's slaves or slavers. So unless GRRM is planning to use some sort of Deus Ex Machina, thru influence of which people of Essos will suddenly be enlightened, and evolve into democrats and humanists, Slaver's Bay will remain the way it was, prior Dany's intervention.

[Rosetta Stone]

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

How will the cities Daenerys conquered be once she leaves for Westeros? So far Astapor is decimated at this point, the Yunkai still rely heavily on slaves and slave trade for the economy and Meereen is being torn apart by the Yunkai and the bloody flux is spreading.

The young hero started a reform that will inspire the slaves in the other slave cities to revolt against their masters.  The slaves of Volantis are just waiting for Daenerys to give her approval, let them know she's coming, and they will tear down the slaving families.  Freedom is coming.  It will take time to remove the masters and their evil from the land but it will happen through fire and blood.  A reform of this scale, which does not have a precedent in that world, will not happen overnight.  The masters will make things worse for a while because they are too vested in the slave trade even though it is evil.  The masters will have to be killed in order for progress to happen.  Progress will happen as soon as the resistance and their terrorists organization, the Harpy, are all killed.  A better economy will rise from the ashes of the masters.  A more equitable and moral social system will take its place, all because of the heroic efforts of the mother of dragons.

The problem is the resistance of the masters.  If they will only accept the new way and cooperate everything would be so much better.  Daenerys will have to deal more harshly with them.  It could mean getting rid of all the resistance in order to bring about the emancipation for all of the slaves in Essos.  Daenerys is on the right track.  She tried the softer way.  Now is the time to show the power of the mother of dragons and bring about the demise of the masters.  The masters are evil people who want to continue to practice slavery.  

 

[chrisdaw]

I think the point is how they fare is up to them. Dany isn't supposed to rule, isn't built for it, isn't good at it. She's fire, she consumes and leaves ashes in her wake so that things may grow again. She spills a lot of blood but provides the cities a chance to rebuild something better.

If these cities fail or develop into cess pools once again I won't blame Dany, a city is the responsibility of the people who live there and is ultimately a reflection of themselves.

[Rosetta Stone]

Just now, chrisdaw said:

I think the point is how they fare is up to them. Dany isn't supposed to rule, isn't built for it, isn't good at it. She's fire, she consumes and leaves ashes in her wake so that things may grow again. She spills a lot of blood but provides the cities a chance to rebuild something better.

If these cities fail or develop into cess pools once again I won't blame Dany, a city is the responsibility of the people who live there and is ultimately a reflection of themselves.

Daenerys is the best ruler out of all the young rulers and leaders (Joffrey, Jon, Cersei, Robb. and Stannis).  Like I said, the problem at the bay are the efforts of the masters to bring back the slave trade.  Get rid of that resistance by fire and blood and the emancipation will move forward.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

How will the cities Daenerys conquered be once she leaves for Westeros? So far Astapor is decimated at this point, the Yunkai still rely heavily on slaves and slave trade for the economy and Meereen is being torn apart by the Yunkai and the bloody flux is spreading.

The cities will revert to what is familiar to them , especially as long as remnants of the old power base is left .

[Starkz]

6 minutes ago, Rosetta Stone said:

Daenerys is the best ruler out of all the young rulers and leaders (Joffrey, Jon, Cersei, Robb. and Stannis).  Like I said, the problem at the bay are the efforts of the masters to bring back the slave trade.  Get rid of that resistance by fire and blood and the emancipation will move forward.

Eh. Daenerys has made a lot of mistakes and hasn’t had much success ruling Meereen. Cersei is quite effective in ruling through fear and manipulation and Stannis is a battle hardened leader and widely respected, Jon’s command over the NW isn’t on the scale of these other leaders/rulers but he’s improved the situation at the Wall quite a bit and before his stabbing had the Wildlings ready to follow him. Regardless this post wasn’t about whether Daenerys is the “best ruler” out of others in the books. Even when slavery was rid of in Astapor a former slave rose up and reestablished it so getting rid of the masters is not going to solve the problems in these places she’s caused.

[Lord Varys]

The cities in Slaver's Bay will be destroyed. They are slaver cities and the slave trade is the only trade they know. There is no future for them.

[Gendarrion]

But those cities are very large to be razed and salt, and while Volantis, Myr,Lys  and others are still active in slave trade. so it will never diminish in Slaver's bay so Dany needs to make them kneel as well, 

Westeros Colony is wishful thinking though.

[Ylath's Snout]

One problem with Slaver's Bay is that Dany shut down the main local industry and hasn't managed to replace it with anything else. Horrible as it might be everyone's livelihood in Slaver's Bay is tied to the "production" and sale of slaves, including the slaves. Las Vegas would turn into a shit show if you outlawed gambling overnight with the backing of dragonfire.

Then there real life. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Foreign invaders could take out the local powers easy but rebuilding something that can sustain itself without massive foreign armies is hard and takes a long time. When he started ASoIaF GRRM didn't have such a clear and ongoing parallel to what Dany is doing in Slaver's Bay. If Dany just snapped her finger and solved the Meereenese Knot a lot of folks would call BS because we collectively know how fucking hard nation building is.

The only quick and believable way to extract Dany from Slaver's Bay I can see at this point is for the whole region to be destroyed, by dragonfire, the Pale Mare or something else.

[dmfn]

The economy of Slaver's Bay will be the masters' problem to deal with. An exodus, like the slaves of Valyria did when they founded Braavos could be the answer. If they can't change things from the inside, they should pioneer out and start over some place new.

[hodorisfaclessman]

44 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

One problem with Slaver's Bay is that Dany shut down the main local industry and hasn't managed to replace it with anything else. Horrible as it might be everyone's livelihood in Slaver's Bay is tied to the "production" and sale of slaves, including the slaves. Las Vegas would turn into a shit show if you outlawed gambling overnight with the backing of dragonfire.

Then there real life. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Foreign invaders could take out the local powers easy but rebuilding something that can sustain itself without massive foreign armies is hard and takes a long time. When he started ASoIaF GRRM didn't have such a clear and ongoing parallel to what Dany is doing in Slaver's Bay. If Dany just snapped her finger and solved the Meereenese Knot a lot of folks would call BS because we collectively know how fucking hard nation building is.

The only quick and believable way to extract Dany from Slaver's Bay I can see at this point is for the whole region to be destroyed, by dragonfire, the Pale Mare or something else.

Yep its amazing she never thought of the obvious ...ie pay the slaves for their former free work and their spending would be the start of a new trading based economy! 

Also keeping the fight pits open is important as meeren seems to rely on it 

[dmfn]

17 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Yep its amazing she never thought of the obvious ...ie pay the slaves for their former free work and their spending would be the start of a new trading based economy! 

Also keeping the fight pits open is important as meeren seems to rely on it 

Free market economy! Blasphemy!

[Ylath's Snout]

1 hour ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Yep its amazing she never thought of the obvious ...ie pay the slaves for their former free work and their spending would be the start of a new trading based economy! 

That's what they did in the American south (sort of) after the civil war but the problem is that those former-slaves produced things like indigo and tobacco. Slaver's Bay's (wow that looks naff) major export is slavers so how would that work?

57 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Free market economy! Blasphemy!

Well that-which-can-not-be-mentioned sort of tried that.

[The Sleeper]

They did have free market economy. They bought captives and sold slaves. 

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Gendarrion said:

But those cities are very large to be razed and salt, and while Volantis, Myr,Lys  and others are still active in slave trade. so it will never diminish in Slaver's bay so Dany needs to make them kneel as well, 

Westeros Colony is wishful thinking though.

Volantis, Lys, Myr, and Tyrosh will also end their slaver policy. Dany and her forces will see to that, too. But unlike the cities of Slaver's Bay these cities can survive without the slave trade. They will have to change, sure, but unlike the cities in Slaver's Bay they can do that.

Astapor has already been destroyed, Yunkai is likely going to be destroyed after the Wise Masters have been defeated, and Meereen might be destroyed in the wake of whatever conflict is going to be fought there.

In the end, those reformed Ghiscari that have joined Dany will accompany her and the freed slaves west. They will give up any delusions about staying in the cursed land of their birth. Many of the others might be killed or mount the Pale Mare.

[dmfn]

@Lord Varys The Pale Mare won't survive if they start digging better latrines, and quit drinking poo poo water. 

[Lord Varys]

15 minutes ago, dmfn said:

@Lord Varys The Pale Mare won't survive if they start digging better latrines, and quit drinking poo poo water. 

Not sure if there is time for that. We have one battle now, potentially a lot of unrest in the city due to the dragons, the Hizdahr arrest, and the Sons of the Harpy. Not to mention the arrival of the Ironborn. Then the Volantenes are coming.

And I'm not sure if the Pale Mare is only transferred by drinking infected water.

[rotting sea cow]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Volantis, Lys, Myr, and Tyrosh will also end their slaver policy. Dany and her forces will see to that, too. But unlike the cities of Slaver's Bay these cities can survive without the slave trade. They will have to change, sure, but unlike the cities in Slaver's Bay they can do that.

Astapor has already been destroyed, Yunkai is likely going to be destroyed after the Wise Masters have been defeated, and Meereen might be destroyed in the wake of whatever conflict is going to be fought there.

In the end, those reformed Ghiscari that have joined Dany will accompany her and the freed slaves west. They will give up any delusions about staying in the cursed land of their birth. Many of the others might be killed or mount the Pale Mare.

Indeed, Dany will end (massive) slavery in all west Essos. Yunkai will burn, however and Meeren I think it will survive but it will be a shadow of their former past.