Angel Eyes Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 During the 270s, Rickard Stark, Hoster Tully and Tywin Lannister were looking for prospective spouses for their children. Why didn’t Tywin consider Catelyn Tully or Lyanna Stark as a good match for his son Jaime? He didn’t seem to have a lot of foresight regarding Jaime, since Cersei got to him and convinced Jaime to become a Kingsguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Tywin's mind-set of how to arrange marriages for his children was probably different before Joanna died. Catelyn may have been promised to Brandon before Joanna died, or close enough that Tywin was still in mourning about it. We don't know how Tywin and Rickard got along, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I have to admit it surprises me that someone as prideful as Tywin Lannister would accept a second born daughter over a first. Brandon might have already been betrothed to Catelyn at that point, but I have no idea why he didn't consider Lyanna. Since all the information we get comes from either history books or from the character POVs chapters, there is a chance there is information we don't know about. Maybe Tywin didn't have great opinions on the Northerners, since they are so different to Southerners, or maybe he did try to set up a match between Jaime and Lyanna, but Rickard refused the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 My guess: Cat was nabbed before Tywin might have considered her. Lyanna doesn't bring a lot of value outside of Northern armies, The Starks are politically isolated and don't command any valuable trade routes or goods. Maybe if Tywin wanted to build a channel across the Neck by the Fever River so Westerland traders could get to Essos without having to pass half of Westeros, but I am not sure that would be feasible with Westeros tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Ser Leftwich said: Catelyn may have been promised to Brandon before Joanna died, or close enough that Tywin was still in mourning about it. We don't know how Tywin and Rickard got along, if at all. There's no basis for the idea that Catelyn was promised to Brandon in/by before 273 AC. And being in mourning did not prevent Tywin from continuing to try to betroth his daughter to Prince Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Bael's Bastard said: There's no basis for the idea that Catelyn was promised to Brandon in/by before 273 AC. And being in mourning did not prevent Tywin from continuing to try to betroth his daughter to Prince Rhaegar. I just think Tywin didn't much see past his idea of Cersei being Queen. It's also a distinct possibility he wanted to be certain of the personality of the type of woman who would be the future Lady of The Rock. He had such hangups about women and their effect on Lannister men. I wouldn't be surprised if one day during his obsession of making Cersei a Targ that Tywin awoke to find..........many first born daughters already pledged to others, ie Cat and Lyanna, etc., while he hadn't given much of a thought to what to do with Jaime anyway. Plus, I'm thinking Tywin would have probably preferred a meek wife for Jaime, or a cousin Lannister, like Joanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: There's no basis for the idea that Catelyn was promised to Brandon in/by before 273 AC. Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. So who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Ylath's Snout said: Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. So who knows? We know that Joanna died in 273 AC, and that Catelyn was promised to Brandon when she was twelve. We can safely assume that Catelyn was not a twenty year old woman who had been betrothed for a decade, and was still unwed, at the time of the Harrenhal Tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. So who knows? Catelyn was betrothed to Brandon in 276 AC at the age of 12. Why does this make me think of Joffrey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Catelyn was betrothed to Brandon in 276 AC at the age of 12. Why does this make me think of Joffrey? We don't know the year of Catelyn's birth or the year of her betrothal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 29 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: There's no basis for the idea that Catelyn was promised to Brandon in/by before 273 AC. -snip- You're right, I did my math wrong, it was about 276 that she was betrothed to Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: We can safely assume that Catelyn was not a twenty year old woman who had been betrothed for a decade, and was still unwed, at the time of the Harrenhal Tourney. Can we? I have seen some pretty wild assumptions being thrown around here, looking at you "Meereenese Knot = Meera is Jon's twin" thread from last week. Naw but for real, my bad. 12 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Catelyn was betrothed to Brandon in 276 AC at the age of 12. Why does this make me think of Joffrey? I don't know man. Brandon might have been a horn(wolf)dog but AFAIK he never cataplutet anyone into a moat for wanting to get a loan repaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: Can we? I have seen some pretty wild assumptions being thrown around here, looking at you "Meereenese Knot = Meera is Jon's twin" thread from last week. Naw but for real, my bad. I don't know man. Brandon might have been a horn(wolf)dog but AFAIK he never cataplutet anyone into a moat for wanting to get a loan repaid. Right now, the Meereenese Knot is getting harder to untie with a squid showing up. Remind me who got catapulted into the moat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Right now, the Meereenese Knot is harder to untie than the show’s Meereenese Knot. OhhhHHHhhhh, fly you fool lest the mods gets you for mentioning that-which-must-not-be-reference-ever! (Almost like trying to "solve" slavery is a bit too complex for a book series with seventy-eleven different plots.) 21 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Remind me who got catapulted into the moat. The Antler Men admittedly there was a tiny bit of treachery too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: OhhhHHHhhhh, fly you fool lest the mods gets you for mentioning that-which-must-not-be-reference-ever! (Almost like trying to "solve" slavery is a bit too complex for a book series with seventy-eleven different plots.) The Antler Men admittedly there was a tiny bit of treachery too. Changed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, EloImFizzy said: I have to admit it surprises me that someone as prideful as Tywin Lannister would accept a second born daughter over a first. What is issue with being second born daughter? Edmure will get Riverrun, no Cat or Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said: What is issue with being second born daughter? Edmure will get Riverrun, no Cat or Lysa. Sure but if Edmure and his line dies-off Cat and her children would get first dibs on Riverrun or anything else they stand to inherit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said: What is issue with being second born daughter? Edmure will get Riverrun, no Cat or Lysa. What Ylath's Snout said. 6 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: Sure but if Edmure and his line dies-off Cat and her children would get first dibs on Riverrun or anything else they stand to inherit. Plus the High Lords of Westeros are very prideful people, especially someone like Tywin Lannister, who is head of the wealthiest House in Westeros, and also the Hand of the King, the second most powerful position in Westeros. Marrying his first born son an heir to a second born daughter seems like something he would scoff at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Tyrell Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said: What is issue with being second born daughter? Edmure will get Riverrun, no Cat or Lysa. Edmure is still unmarried and without heirs, if anything happened to him Riverrun passes to Catelyn and her children by her husband. However, this is more an added bonus, I don’t particularly get the impression from the series that a younger daughter is considered a lesser marriage than her elder sister - Lysa is still a Tully and the daughter of the Lord of Riverrun. edit - I see a couple of people answered before me, but I’ll further support my view of younger daughters - men in Westeros don’t usually marry women for their inheritance, and a younger daughter is of just as noble a bloodline as an elder sister, and brings the same alliances, so I don’t see why a nobleman would care about her birth order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 @Jaehaerys TyrellLike you said it'd be a small bonus of maybe getting a claim on Riverrun but it is a bit odd that Tywin didn't go for it. Maximizing the potential reward for Jaime hand and all that seems like a Tywin move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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