U.S. Politics: Covfefe Boys

[LongRider]

12 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I don't see him as one of the characters that helped cultivate the current insanity on the right these days

Um, Sarah Palin.  He selected her and thanks to that she did her part in the tea party and other ruinous stuff.  Not to mention grifting the true believing rubes.   So I don't agree with you there. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

18 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Um, Sarah Palin.  He selected her and thanks to that she did her part in the tea party and other ruinous stuff.  Not to mention grifting the true believing rubes.   So I don't agree with you there. 

I agree with you about Palin, but 10 years on she's a marginal figure at best.  The current political climate would be exactly the same with or without her VP nomination in 2008.  The Tea party didn't need her to get started.

[Bonnot OG]

So glad that liberals are white washing what McCain was. 

[A True Kaniggit]

I'm undecided on how to feel about McCain dying.

Some have mentioned that people with cancer should get sympathy, that because of being sick we should think better of them.

But it's not true. If someone is a POS in life and gets sick, they don't magically become a better person. They just become a sick POS. I've seen too many times a POS come in with cancer, and their estranged family rally around to take care of them, to help them pull through. I think the lucky families were the ones who had the person die before they recovered. Because guess what? All too often the POS pulled through and didn't change. Getting sick didn't change their personality. They recovered and stilled abused their SO or were still racist as hell or still treated everyone else in the world like scum. But now that POS was back in their lives again.

Not sure if this applies to McCain. But just because he died of brain cancer doesn't make him a good man.

POS: Piece of Shit

[Crazydog7]

When I think of John McCain the image that leaps to mind is the 2000 Presidential Primary in South Carolina I was a Sophomore in High School and just starting to take an interest in political matters.  Went to school one morning and got home to find a crudely drawn, misspelled pamphlet in our mailbox that claimed among other idiotic things that McCain’s Vietnamese adopted children were actually the product of an illicit relationship between John and a black woman.  This claim was so and stupid and idiotic that even I at 15 years of age was able to see how stupid and idiotic it was.  My Grandfather was living with us at the time saw the pamphlet laughed and said “mark my words grandson this will be what pushes that idiot Bush over the top”

People forget that before he won the South Carolina primary the political aspirations of Bush 43 were a joke.  I like to think there is a parallel universe out there were McCain fought a little on the dirty side and was able to send him packing back to Texas.   

That was the day I learned the two golden rules of American politics

1.        Always trust the Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

2.       Never underestimate the ability of idiots to believe stupid things. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Henry Kissinger is still alive, did I read that post right?

Geezus that is depressing.

[maarsen]

John McCain was a fuck up for his  entire life. Only his family and his wife's money let him sail past where you and I would be dropped in the shit. 

And yes I had someone close to me die of the same cancer. Not only that all of Canada watched Gord Downie die of brain cancer with wit and compassion and more heroism than McCain ever showed. 

I'm with Jace. Fuck him. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, maarsen said:

John McCain was a fuck up for his  entire life. Only his family and his wife's money let him sail past where you and I would be dropped in the shit. 

And yes I had someone close to me die of the same cancer. Not only that all of Canada watched Gord Downie die of brain cancer with wit and compassion and more heroism than McCain ever showed. 

I'm with Jace. Fuck him. 

Are you buying into the BS story that claims Sen. McCain was responsible for the Forrestal fire?  If so, its bullshit:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-mccain-fire-uss-forrestal/

[Larry of the Lawn]

McCain's maverickism was something he cultivated and fed to the world by the hatin' spoonful.  He was a spoiled rich kid born in the third baseline who became a rich politician and generally supported the partyline while ocassionally taking some high-profile, low-risk moral stance against them.  It was a dog and pony show.  

My condolences to his family but I'm not going to get emotional or wistful or start blowing smoke up the guys ass.  This country is better off without him.  

[maarsen]

He will always be remembered for bringing Sarah Palin onto the international stage. He might as well have picked Curly from the Three Stooges. That would have been a slight improvement. 

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

This country is better off without him.  

I agree McCain was misguided, and his policies were not what America needs right now. But really? With our current Congress you think this? Let's hope these words don't come back to haunt us when Mike Pence breaks a tie vote in the Senate on Brett Kavanaugh. I suppose I'm glad he stuck around long enough to vote on the ACA (as well as Murkowski and Collins). The country certainly wouldn't be a better place if that vote were held now.

7 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

POS: Piece of Shit

This is what really astounds me, that on a forum dedicated to a work of literature best known for conveying the myriad shades of gray and moral ambiguity found in human nature, so many can reduce a man to either a good person or a piece of shit. Can we have a little bit of perspective here? Now in particular, when we have actual white supremacists, Russian spies, and holocaust deniers running for (and attaining) political office, it is important for America to recognize the difference between an ignorant friend, and a hateful enemy.

This attitude is exactly why we have Trump in office right now, instead of the hyper-competent centrist that he was running against. Too many well-intentioned, educated, more-liberal-than-thou-art Democrats of my generation decided that she wasn't as pure as the person they wanted to have the nomination, and flushed their votes down a third party toilet.

[Fez]

McCain held a lot of bad views IMO and advanced a lot of bad legislation. But anyone who claims he was just a partisan hack is badly glossing over the full measure of who he was; including the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform act that pissed off Republicans so much, at least until the Supreme Court gutted it.

Also, anyone who claims the country is "better off without him" is just factually wrong. At the most base, transactional level, him being alive and occupying a Republican senate seat without ever voting meant that Republicans only had a 50-49 majority. Once Gov. Ducey appoints a replacement, they'll be back up to a 51-49 majority. Still very slim, but does give at least a one vote margin of error to McConnell. McCain's last great act, even if it was for the selfish reason of wanting to die a senator (not arguing he's not a complicated figure), was preventing McConnell from doing almost anything on a strictly party-line basis this year.

[Martell Spy]

So, the entire project of the Trump Presidency has come down to keeping a single felon from facing justice. Are Republicans so cult-like that they will defend the felon for the next 6 years?

[Morpheus]

23 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

So, the entire project of the Trump Presidency has come down to keeping a single felon from facing justice. Are Republicans so cult-like that they will defend the felon for the next 6 years?

Yes. 

If they can get legislation they want, there is no limit to how far they will sink. Tax cuts for the wealthy, supreme court seats, the anti-LGBT fight, all of that could be undermined. While it may seem like a true believer like Pence would be a better vehicle for achieving their goals, he has no reach beyond the evangelical base and he would never have gotten within sniffing distance of th WH without Trump. I think Pence would have a hard time getting reelected if he were to take over. His slavish devotion to Trump means he is easily tainted as part of a corrupt regime.

I think the elephant in the room which is never addressed is one of legitimacy. If Trump were removed from office because of a crime he committed in seeking office, it would lead to a lot of  logical questions regarding his administration and office. Should any of it count? Can Pence really be President if the top of his ticket, the guy people actually vote for, was tainted? What are we to make of two SC seats filled by a man who illegally occupied the office? 

If they admit that Trump should never have been President due to criminal activity, it calls into question their entire enterprise during the time he lead the party.

[Martell Spy]

36 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Yes. 

If they can get legislation they want, there is no limit to how far they will sink. Tax cuts for the wealthy, supreme court seats, the anti-LGBT fight, all of that could be undermined. While it may seem like a true believer like Pence would be a better vehicle for achieving their goals, he has no reach beyond the evangelical base and he would never have gotten within sniffing distance of th WH without Trump. I think Pence would have a hard time getting reelected if he were to take over. His slavish devotion to Trump means he is easily tainted as part of a corrupt regime.

I think the elephant in the room which is never addressed is one of legitimacy. If Trump were removed from office because of a crime he committed in seeking office, it would lead to a lot of  logical questions regarding his administration and office. Should any of it count? Can Pence really be President if the top of his ticket, the guy people actually vote for, was tainted? What are we to make of two SC seats filled by a man who illegally occupied the office? 

If they admit that Trump should never have been President due to criminal activity, it calls into question their entire enterprise during the time he lead the party.

Robert Reich recently called for Trump Presidency to be annulled. While I would support this, I just do not see it happening.

I think the best we can hope for is something similar to the post Watergate reforms. And that is if things go well.

It's not fair what has happened, but R's have been cheating since 2000.

I do think we should look at court packing or related concepts. However that should be done in response to SC overreach. If they repeal Obamacare from the bench, it should be war on the court.

 

[Martell Spy]

Robert Reich: Don’t Impeach Trump, Annul His Presidency – OpEd

https://www.eurasiareview.com/25082018-robert-reich-dont-impeach-trump-annul-his-presidency-oped/

Quote

 

Suppose, just suppose, Robert Mueller finds overwhelming and indisputable evidence that Trump conspired with Putin to rig the 2016 election, and the rigging determined the election’s outcome.

In other words, Trump’s presidency is not authorized under the United States Constitution.

Suppose these findings are so compelling that even Trump loyalists desert him, the Republican Party decides it has had enough, and Fox News calls for his impeachment.

What then? Impeachment isn’t enough.

 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

So, the entire project of the Trump Presidency has come down to keeping a single felon from facing justice. Are Republicans so cult-like that they will defend the felon for the next 6 years?

yes. their base will eat them alive if they don't.

[Zorral]

Those who are now saying McCain isn't in any way responsible for the horror show that is the current US and the presidency and all its ilks and works -- two words: Sarah Palin.  Just that alone shows what he was.  The same people who adore the orange nazi because he has given them both permission and cover to act out like the empty assholes of hatred and racism that they are, adored Sarah Palin for the same reasons.  And if ever there was anyone as unfit to be in government as the orange nazi it was Sarah Palin.  And that's all on McCain.  Things have only gotten steadily worse once the rethugs put her on the scene, front and center, even as she grifted even the RNC with her sartorial shopping sprees (in hideous taste too) for herself and family.

[TheKitttenGuard]

My thoughts on McCain are as tangled up as many are. Overall I despised his Foreign Policy outlook and most of his Domestic Policy. He gave us Sarsh Palin which only embolden the elements of the Republican Party that led to Trump.

He is also someone whom was the target of some of the most vicious attack that came within his party like the 2000 primary. He did stand against some terrible elements of the Republican in fairly often. 

I am someone who believe to let the dead have their time.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

6 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Those who are now saying McCain isn't in any way responsible for the horror show that is the current US and the presidency and all its ilks and works -- two words: Sarah Palin.  Just that alone shows what he was.  The same people who adore the orange nazi because he has given them both permission and cover to act out like the empty assholes of hatred and racism that they are, adored Sarah Palin for the same reasons.  And if ever there was anyone as unfit to be in government as the orange nazi it was Sarah Palin.  And that's all on McCain.  Things have only gotten steadily worse once the rethugs put her on the scene, front and center, even as she grifted even the RNC with her sartorial shopping sprees (in hideous taste too) for herself and family.

Is he responsible for Rush Limbaugh? Glenn Beck?  Sean Hannity? PNAC? Birtherism?  The religious right?  I could go on.

Yes, Sarah Palin was a colossal mistake, for more reasons than one.  Personally I think her rhetoric post 2008 with respect to the financial crisis was especially damaging, but it was not unique.  It wasn't even that extreme relatively speaking.  Even he acknowledges it was the wrong decision (though for not the right reasons).

Like I said before, Palin or no Palin, things today would be no different.