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Why did George give daenerys everything


manchester_babe

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42 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

You seem to want to argue against the actual text. It's not a hypothetical or questionable, without her presence the place falls apart, the Harpy goes back to killing and the peace ends. It happened.

And in her presence they were chipping away at her, waiting her out.

Again it happened because Baristan reneged on her deal. He unlawfully imprisoned someone who was officially his ruler after being manipulated and lied to by the shavepate.

Can I ask you who you believe poisoned the locusts? I don't understand where you are coming from and that might help me because it is a very important point.

How were they (the Meereenese nobles/harpy) chipping away at her after she agreed to marry? Opening the fighting pits was a compromise which she agreed to. Transitioning culture during a revolution is extremely difficult and George wanted to show that. It's a story of compromise and consequences showing how hard it is to make peace after a hostile invasion, why it is worth striving for, but also allowing her character to suffer from the inner conflict he loves to write about and realistically transitioning her into a darker character.

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1 hour ago, BigBoss1 said:

How can she win the masters over when she herself kidnapped the children.

First she wants to play the ruthless ruler and then the gracious queen. Thats indecisive and ineffective.

Not really.  I meant she does not need to win the masters.  She will need to win over their children because they are the future.  The masters will likely continue to impede the path to freedom and there will be no other choice except to fight them.  She wants to free the slaves, the masters want to keep the slaves.  The children being fostered can be taught a better way.  

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1 minute ago, The Pink Letter said:

Not really.  I meant she does not need to win the masters.  She will need to win over their children because they are the future.  The masters will likely continue to impede the path to freedom and there will be no other choice except to fight them.  She wants to free the slaves, the masters want to keep the slaves.  The children being fostered can be taught a better way.  

How many children she took 10? Less?

Thats not nearly enough for changing a whole civilization's ways. And how does she know the children don't resent  her for taking them from their families. You know Ned treated Theon with dignity and look at what happened.

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Just now, BigBoss1 said:

How many children she took 10? Less?

Thats not nearly enough for changing a whole civilization's ways. And how does she know the children don't resent  her for taking them from their families. You know Ned treated Theon with dignity and look at what happened.

Fair question.  But taking the children is a good start in their deprogramming.  Or their new programming.  They will need to be raised to think slavery is wrong.  Sure, some will buy into it and some won't.  You can never win them all.   

The alternative is to let them grow up with their prejudice, slaver parents.  They will never change that way.  They will never see the light.  The path to goodness will continue to be hidden from them.   Their generation will be little different from their slaver parents.

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1 hour ago, Makk said:

Again it happened because Baristan reneged on her deal. He unlawfully imprisoned someone who was officially his ruler after being manipulated and lied to by the shavepate.

Which happened because she wasn't there. Meanwhile this ruler who you suppose is going to enforce her laws in her absence was breaking the law that was the major point of contention.

Who poisoned the locusts doesn't matter to this point.

Yes, it is a story of compromises and consequences. And a failure in leadership.

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11 hours ago, Makk said:

Again it happened because Baristan reneged on her deal. He unlawfully imprisoned someone who was officially his ruler after being manipulated and lied to by the shavepate.

Can I ask you who you believe poisoned the locusts? I don't understand where you are coming from and that might help me because it is a very important point.

How were they (the Meereenese nobles/harpy) chipping away at her after she agreed to marry? Opening the fighting pits was a compromise which she agreed to. Transitioning culture during a revolution is extremely difficult and George wanted to show that. It's a story of compromise and consequences showing how hard it is to make peace after a hostile invasion, why it is worth striving for, but also allowing her character to suffer from the inner conflict he loves to write about and realistically transitioning her into a darker character.

To be fair to Barry, what the Shavepate says ring true. He was probably the one behind the locusts, but they and Drogon did their work well. Dany's peace was done for after the pit and the Volantenes are on their way. Deposing Hizdhar at this juncture was a matter of survival. 

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13 hours ago, The Pink Letter said:

That's correct.  This is the same thing the Starks might have done to Theon.  Raising him away from his pirate of a family might make a good man out of him.  It's worth a try.  

That could have been one of the deciding factors for Robert.  Sending Balon's heir to be raised away from the ironborn might change their culture for the better.  

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19 hours ago, Makk said:

Again it happened because Baristan reneged on her deal. He unlawfully imprisoned someone who was officially his ruler after being manipulated and lied to by the shavepate.

Can I ask you who you believe poisoned the locusts? I don't understand where you are coming from and that might help me because it is a very important point.

How were they (the Meereenese nobles/harpy) chipping away at her after she agreed to marry? Opening the fighting pits was a compromise which she agreed to. Transitioning culture during a revolution is extremely difficult and George wanted to show that. It's a story of compromise and consequences showing how hard it is to make peace after a hostile invasion, why it is worth striving for, but also allowing her character to suffer from the inner conflict he loves to write about and realistically transitioning her into a darker character.

Everything regarding Shavepate is speculation until the next book. Regardless of who tried to posion her it shows there was never peace in Meereen when your people/advisers are still trying to kill you.

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18 hours ago, The Pink Letter said:

Fair question.  But taking the children is a good start in their deprogramming.  Or their new programming.  They will need to be raised to think slavery is wrong.  Sure, some will buy into it and some won't.  You can never win them all.   

The alternative is to let them grow up with their prejudice, slaver parents.  They will never change that way.  They will never see the light.  The path to goodness will continue to be hidden from them.   Their generation will be little different from their slaver parents.

So taking them prisoner against their will  threatening to kill them is a good thing because Daenerys knows better than their parents? The children being prisoners of Daenerys isn’t going to teach them that slavery is “right” or “wrong”. In this world, it’s their way of life. Their generation might be different but only because slavery will be forcefully banned. 

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Well I'd agree she has a plot armour so far, but everything?

She has no family besides Viserys, who's temper is getting worse and worse until he is murdered in a hideous fashion in front of her.

Include Khal Drogo in the everything package, a rapist and slaver who wed her to be his bride.  

And also Jorah, who is a creep and a double agent among other things. 

That's messed up enough to begin with.

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40 minutes ago, Starkz said:

So taking them prisoner against their will  threatening to kill them is a good thing because Daenerys knows better than their parents? The children being prisoners of Daenerys isn’t going to teach them that slavery is “right” or “wrong”. In this world, it’s their way of life. Their generation might be different but only because slavery will be forcefully banned. 

Well, to be fair their parents thinks slavery is great. They think Unsullied-training is great. Or forcing children to learn of the way of the seven sighs. 

Shielding children from such isn't bad.

Can you give one valid reason why they should be allowed access to children? Any old pedophile might argue just like you, you know "We've always done this in our family". Is that really where you are at?

19 hours ago, BigBoss1 said:

How many children she took 10? Less?

Thats not nearly enough for changing a whole civilization's ways. And how does she know the children don't resent  her for taking them from their families. You know Ned treated Theon with dignity and look at what happened.

A boy and a girl from every pyramid. How many pyramids? 

Quote

Meereen had a score of lesser pyramids

-SoS Dany VI

So forty hostages. Two from every family.

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2 hours ago, Sigella said:

Well, to be fair their parents thinks slavery is great. They think Unsullied-training is great. Or forcing children to learn of the way of the seven sighs. 

Shielding children from such isn't bad.

 

They’re not her children nor is she from their culture. She’s not “shielding” them from anything. Also I thought she only took about 10 hostages from the dubious families she was suspicious of?

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On 8/20/2018 at 8:14 PM, manchester_babe said:

Why did Geroge give Dany everything in book 1, inhuman beauty, dragons, her becoming queen in the end. 

Do you think GM gave Daenerys more than he gave the other characters?  I will have to disagree.  GM took a lot away from Daenerys.  Rhaego, parents, brothers, husband.  That is a lot of tragedy dumped on one person.  I am really glad for Daenerys to have power, beauty, brains, dragons, and a parade of suitors.  

On 8/20/2018 at 9:15 PM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

This reads like it's coming from a bitter and jealous Jon-fan (and Dany-hater).  George didn't give Dany everything.  Dany earned all of the goodness that she has. 

  1. Do you expect somebody like Sansa Stark to have the guts to lead a khalasar through the desert?  No way, right.  Three minutes into the hike and Sansa Stark would demand for her butt to be carried.  
  2. Dany gave up her lover in order to marry a man she didn't love, for the good of the people.  Can you expect Robb Stark to do the same?  No.
  3. Is King Joff brave enough to walk into fire to hatch dragon eggs?  Joffrey is not brave enough to do that.  
  4. Dany gave mercy to her cupbearers even if their families might be involved in terrorism, because the hostages had nothing to do with it.  Would Stannis show the same mercy?  I don't think so.  He didn't show any to his starving men.

Dany spent a lot of her childhood in the streets.  She was forced to marry a barbarian.  She made the best of  it and earned the man's respect.  She is a genius and a very resourceful young girl.  She earned her gifts.  

:agree:

The most deserving character of everything good that has come their way.  

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5 hours ago, Starkz said:

So taking them prisoner against their will  threatening to kill them is a good thing because Daenerys knows better than their parents? The children being prisoners of Daenerys isn’t going to teach them that slavery is “right” or “wrong”. In this world, it’s their way of life. Their generation might be different but only because slavery will be forcefully banned. 

Taking them away from their parents is a necessary step in order to change the mentality of the future Ghiscari.  These children can be the start of a new Ghiscari people.  Educate them that slavery is a great wrong committed by their parents and their ancestors.  That is giving them the opportunity to change and become better people.  I am sure there will be a few who will resist this and they will join the harpy when they get the chance.  But we don't know ahead of time who can be saved.   Do not kill them until they prove they can't be saved.  If they can't be changed then they are the enemies of freedom and there is nothing to do but fight them like the rest of the harpies.  

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On 8/21/2018 at 8:29 PM, Bowen 747 said:

Might as well also ask why George made Jaime Lannister good looking, rich, skilled in arms.  How about Jon Snow getting so many easy breaks at wall.  Holy crap, Jon got away with midnight desertion, attempted murder of Ser Alliser Thorne, and the unjust execution of Janos Slynt.  Why not ask about that?  Might also ask how it is that Sansa managed to keep her virginity intact after all of this time.  Is that even realistic?  Oh man, talk about a creature with 9 lives!  That's her virginity for you.  :D  And little Arya Stark waltzing through the river lands and Braavos without getting murdered.  All I am saying is, it is unfair to single out Daenerys for being lovely, great leadership skills, smarts, fire resistant, and having dragonsDaenerys has a lot in her arsenal and she is using it to rescue slaves from their masters.  We should all be supporting her.  :)  

Why should somebody like Sansa, who is self-serving, have the same kind of arsenal.  It would be useless and misused on Sansa.  What would Arya do with this kind of firepower?  Yeah, kill everyone who she thinks was responsible for hurting the Starks.  What a waste of firepower that would be.  I'm not bashing on Arya.   Comparison with other characters is fair whenever one is singled out for either praise or criticism.   I am just saying there are others who have been given as much and some of them have not earned it.  And the gifted Cersei, who probably never went hungry in her life unless she was doing the Jenny Craig week, born rich, lovely, powerful, queen of westeros, victor over the Starks.  I say she was given these things without have to work for it.  She had it far easier than Daenerys.  Daenerys had to work for her resources.  The poor girl grew up without parents, abused by her brother, went through many days of hunger, suffered a childhood on the run, watched her brother sell their mother's crown just to eat, and then married off to the Dothraki.  Daenerys earned her resources and deserve her power.

I'm not starting a quarrel with manchester-babe.   :)   I hope she does not take my disagreement as such.  I suppose if we get down to the brass tacks, our differences are down to who we support in the books and who we want to succeed.  I am obviously a fan of the Khaleesi.  I spent enough time on this web site to know the division which exists among the fans.  It is always at play here on the majority of the posts.  We all know who we like and do not like.   :)

 

hahahah, yeah do start a quarrel.  :D  Just kidding.

If anybody earned the good things in their life it is this young lady.  I agree.  It took a lot of bravery to walk into Drogo's flames.  The strategy she used against Kraznys and the slavers was pure genius.  She earned The Unsullied.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

She has no family besides Viserys, who's temper is getting worse and worse until he is murdered in a hideous fashion in front of her.

Include Khal Drogo in the everything package, a rapist and slaver who wed her to be his bride.  

And also Jorah, who is a creep and a double agent among other things. 

That's messed up enough to begin with.

Yeah, she' was pretty much surrounded by pedophiles. You can also add Illyrio, who admitted to Tyrion that he thought about taking her himself when he thought Viserys might right before she was wedded to the horse savage. 

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5 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

Taking them away from their parents is a necessary step in order to change the mentality of the future Ghiscari.  These children can be the start of a new Ghiscari people.  Educate them that slavery is a great wrong committed by their parents and their ancestors.  That is giving them the opportunity to change and become better people.  I am sure there will be a few who will resist this and they will join the harpy when they get the chance.  But we don't know ahead of time who can be saved.   Do not kill them until they prove they can't be saved.  If they can't be changed then they are the enemies of freedom and there is nothing to do but fight them like the rest of the harpies.  

Slavery is already ended in Meereen. There is no reason for her to be taking the children especially when she can’t follow through on her threats. It’s not like she is trying to build herself a home in Meereen. Eventually she will leave and won’t go back regardless of whether slavery resumes there.

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