Why did George give daenerys everything

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

How is any leader suppose to know/see with great certainty that some people close to them are going to kill them?

In this story they can't. It boils down to definitions.

Leadership and ruling are two different things.

Mance, although he has a title is a leader not a ruler.

Mormont was a commander and leader not a ruler. The seasoned Mormont did not see the mutiny coming.

Robert was a ruler/King who delegated the running of his kingdom to his Hand and to his council. Members of his council knew plans were afoot and no one told.

 

 

[Clegane'sPup]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not so sure about that... I'd say one of Martin's many talents is writing scenes like this in a way that will make different people react/feel differently about it. In other words, I don't believe the reader is supposed to feel one way or another, but rather to think and ponder these things. Just my 2p, of course.

I agree.

It is my opinion that martin writes a multi faceted story that challenges the intellect. As a reader I get to try to follow where the author is taking me. Based on my age, social, economic, spiritual, and educational background I get to decide and I get to espouse my thoughts and ideas. I do not control other people's emotion nor do I need to try to persuade other individual posters that my interpretation is the only correct one ( though occasionally I do).

 

 

[Clegane'sPup]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

We use the word empathy when we see a person in pain and try to help/comfort them because we inadvertently put ourselves in their shoes - and that's also what well-written fiction does.

Empathy is me feeling your suffering, joy, etc

Pity is me acknowledging your suffering

Sympathy is me caring about your suffering

Compassion is me wanting to relieve your suffering

 

[Morte]

27 minutes ago, Starkz said:

You’re kidding right? Julius Ceaser was one of the greatest leaders and politicians ever. Rome was in ruins because of the Senate and Julius implemented a ton of reforms that brought Rome back from the brink and prospering again. The Senate was as dysfunctional as it gets and Julius knew this and took charge. You really need to do some research on Ceaser if you think he was a bad politician. Reforming calendar, relationship with Eqypt and other rulers, turning Rome from a republic to a monarch etc. Do I have to go on?

Last one, as this doesn't belong here:

1.) It's a difference between don't being "great" at something and being "bad" at something. Don't you think so?

2.) Reforming the calendar was a good deed, yes. But this was one of the few things he had consensus from almost everybody (because how much the old Roman calendar was already out of synch).

3.) He wanted to turn it into a monarchy. They killed him for this.

4.) Other rulers? Herodes the Great - Augustus (Herodes became king under him, before that, he was just a vicegerent). The Parthians? Caesar wanted to go to war against them - It was again Augustus who made a lasting peace with them. But if you mean Cleopatra - well, she was playing him, using him for her own goal of a stable, rich and powerful Egypt, just like she later did with Antonius (which was very understandable from her side. And she played the game well, better then both her men).

4.) It was Augustus who changed the res publica into the Principate.

And he is actually quite an interesting example for how to learn to rule (just some of the things he had to learn):

a) Have friends (in high places? even better).

b) Don't send your friends away!

c) Sometimes you have to go through with that god damned subscription lists...

d) Convince people. (Especially those you need and/or really don't want to put on a list) Give them the feeling they are needed and important, even if they no longer are or never were.

[nicgolightly]

The dragon has 3 heads

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, Starkz said:

So by being a paranoid leader like Aerys? Jon did name people to positions he trusted and yet a couple posts ago you were complaining about it, hypocritical much? Why would Jon care for Marsh’s support? Jon notes Marsh leaving the room and says he cares not that he doesn’t need or want him. I’m not sure if Jon has ever listened to anything Marsh has ever said, Marsh tells Jon to do the opposite of everything he does, naming Satin steward, Wildlings coming south etc. Marsh never supported Jon, all he did was tolerate him and Jon tolerated Marsh in return.

There is a spectrum to that, too. There is a reason why kings do use informers and spies in this world - they need information about their friends, enemies, and subjects.

Jon sent his friends and supporters away - sure, some got important offices (Grenn and Pyp did not, though, and Aemon was sent away to die, basically). One could even doubt that sending Sam to the Citadel was a stupid idea at this time.

Jon basically had no need for Marsh after the point he realized he knew what the man was saying before he did say it - that was the point to sent the man into retirement and name a Lord Steward of your own choice.

If you want to make changes you first ensure your ducks are in a row - and people do what you tell them. You can afford to be sabotaged or assassinated by your own bureaucracy.

3 hours ago, Morte said:

d) Convince people. (Especially those you need and/or really don't want to put on a list) Give them the feeling they are needed and important, even if they no longer are or never were.

That is the point that ended up under the rug when we started talking about the 'don't get assassinated' part - Jon makes no coordinated attempt to win the love of his people, so to speak. He makes no attempt to convince the high officers of his new agenda - in private talks, say - nor any approaches to the rank-and-file of the NW - he just ignores those people. He trains with the young recruits in the yard, but he makes no attempt to actually talk to them about what he plans to do.

When he makes his contract with the Iron Bank he doesn't tell anyone - not even after he collects the gold from the wildlings which is supposed to serve as collateral for the loan he wants to take.

He is not a great communicator, and this is always important in a political leader, especially one who wants to change things (fundamentally).

The example of Augustus you give there underlines it very well - his greatest achievement is, perhaps, that he did not suffer the fate of his granduncle. And that was only possible because he crushed his enemies, surrounded himself with a cadre of very loyal and competent friends, and because he gradually won the undecided and the common people to his side.

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

There is a spectrum to that, too. There is a reason why kings do use informers and spies in this world - they need information about their friends, enemies, and subjects.

It didn't help Robert much.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

When he makes his contract with the Iron Bank he doesn't tell anyone - not even after he collects the gold from the wildlings which is supposed to serve as collateral for the loan he wants to take.

The Iron Bank representative came looking for Stannis.

Why?

[Lucas_d_Aquina]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:14 AM, manchester_babe said:

Why did Geroge give Dany everything in book 1, inhuman beauty, dragons, her becoming queen in the end. 

She will probably die in the end, at least in the books. Probably from miscarriage. 

[Lord Varys]

38 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

It didn't help Robert much.

Did anybody ever said Robert Baratheon was a competent ruler, giving high offices only to people he could count upon and trust?

Robert did get killed because he surrounded himself with people he couldn't trust, too.

[Bowen Marsh]

28 minutes ago, Lucas_d_Aquina said:

She will probably die in the end, at least in the books. Probably from miscarriage. 

That would make me said.  If it happens in the books.  Because I am a fan of hers.  This is something more likely to happen on the show.  

You can say this about anybody.  Any character can die.  That is the point of this story.  All men must die at some point.  Jon has just as good a chance of dying.  His chances of survival are no better than hers.  

[Aetta]

On 8/20/2018 at 8:47 PM, Euron Lannister said:

maybe to take it from her.

This made my heart smile <3

[Bowen Marsh]

On 8/29/2018 at 3:22 PM, Wm Portnoy said:

I find it in balance.  She lost her baby.  That is the hardest loss for a mother to take.  The price for the dragons have been paid.  She is the queen because she fought for the right to rule.  George took away her family's land and kingdom, killed all of her loved ones (Drogo, brothers, father, mother), and put her through a hellish childhood.  It is only fair to balance all that suffering.  She deserves to climb the ladder of success and reign as the ruling Queen of Westeros for the next fifty years.  

Would you feel better if George killed Arya before bringing Jon back to life?  You see, I would feel cheated if Jon came back to life and George did not kill his beloved sister as the price.   Many would feel the price has to be paid and paid dearly.  Merely killing Shireen is not an adequate price because she means nothing to Jon Snow.  The price has to be the love of his life, Arya Stark.  

[Bowen Marsh]

On 8/29/2018 at 4:40 PM, El Guapo said:

How is it going successfully?  As far as I can tell the vast majority of them are still ling in holes in Moles Town?  I mean Jon did marry one of them off to Alys it will be interesting to see how the northerners react to that/

Not well, my friend.  Not well at all.  That marriage between a noble woman and a wildling will not be received well in any part of the Westeros.  That puts lands that belonged to the monarch in the hands of a wildling.  That will not go over well.  

[Bowen Marsh]

On 8/28/2018 at 9:32 PM, Sire de Maletroit said:

The war against the slaving families is not over until the harpy is gone.  I doubt she will leave until the slavers are thoroughly defeated.  

I believe this is true.

On 8/28/2018 at 9:36 PM, Sire de Maletroit said:

Absolutely true.  A person with good ideas is not going to get much done without the power to make it happen.  Good ideas are not enough.  That is true in business and life in general.  George has to give the heroine something to work with.  

She has a big task ahead of her.  To end slavery.  She will need all of the materials at her disposal.  Be they the world's best infantry, best cavalry, most loyal army of former slaves, and her three dragons.  It is a world building task that would require the best assets in order to complete and many years.  

[Lord Varys]

To answer the original question:

Because George loves Dany. Read 'The Glass Flower' and 'Fevre Dream' - George really has a thing for those (proto-)Targaryens.

There was never any doubt that Dany is one of his favorite characters.

[Bowen Marsh]

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

To answer the original question:

Because George loves Dany. Read 'The Glass Flower' and 'Fevre Dream' - George really has a thing for those (proto-)Targaryens.

There was never any doubt that Dany is one of his favorite characters.

Mine too.  I love that young lady.

I don't think that is the reason why he gave her a lot.  He also took a lot away from her.  Daenerys Targaryen has suffered more loses than just about anyone in the novels.  

George Martin is also said to like Tyrion, Arya, Samwell, Jon.  I guess we can count on Snowball coming back to life because the author likes him.    

[Aetta]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:34 AM, Starkz said:

If never seen anyone say they don’t like her because she’s a women and that’s a terrible reason to dislike her character.

True dat. I dislike her because she's an idiot. 

Yes, yes, she can speak the mother tongue and Viserys et al gave her an education at least better than that of the average smallfolk. So she's book smart. Cat, Sansa and Cersei are also highly educated political morons. (Well, Sansa is learning from her mistakes, I hope). 

Being able to burn people with your dragons doesn't make ya great, either. A conqueror, sure. A leader of nations, not necessarily. Queen Visenya was no great diplomat, either, but she was capable of being iron-fisted, highly organized and wasn't swayed by the penis.

Dopey Dany has caused more misery and suffering than her "mad" brother ever would have, given he just wanted to grab an army and head to Westeros, not tear apart Essos by taking out the economy and socio-political structure on his way out.

Strong, capable young women in this series are a'plenty. Arya Stark, Asha Greyjoy, Meera Reed, Ygritte, Sarella Sand, and we'll see how Val develops. All are leaps and bounds beyond Dany as far as repping the XX Nation.

[Clegane'sPup]

39 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Did anybody ever said Robert Baratheon was a competent ruler, giving high offices only to people he could count upon and trust?

Robert did get killed because he surrounded himself with people he couldn't trust, too.

Nope, I do not remember anyone saying or typing that.

What I remember is innuendo and insinuation about leaders and and rulers.

The Iron Bank representative came looking for Stannis.   Why?

 

[Aetta]

11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

To answer the original question:

Because George loves Dany. Read 'The Glass Flower' and 'Fevre Dream' - George really has a thing for those (proto-)Targaryens.

There was never any doubt that Dany is one of his favorite characters.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

But you're right, which is why it's so ironic. GRRM hates war, but he gave his girl the ultimate destructive weapons. Curious to see how he resolves that.  Might be worse for him than when he wrote the Red Wedding.

(GRRM can redeem himself if Dany's blood is drained in Lord Rivers tree and it causes him to revive, become youthful, and come back on the scene. God, I love that sexy albino)

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, Aetta said:

God, I love that sexy albino)

Hear, hear!