Why did George give daenerys everything

[Firefae]

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

The Dorthraki she has follow her because she has dragons. The sellswords aka Daario followed her because of her looks.

Agreed about Daario. But @manchester_babe was talking about ACOK.

 

[Hodor the Articulate]

7 hours ago, Starkz said:

The Dorthraki she has follow her because she has dragons. The sellswords aka Daario followed her because of her looks.

The Dothraki follow her because she has strength and power. The dragons were just glorified lizards when they first submitted to her.

Daario followed her for the same reason. His fascination with her has as much to do with her Queenliness as it does her beauty. If it was just about her looks, he would have just found a brothel in Lys.

13 hours ago, Springwatch said:

It's a good point.

I would still include Lyanna in that group, because of the effect she has on people (mostly men) - not because of her physical appearance so much as everything else that makes up beauty: charm, animation, attitude. It's notable that Robert is disappointed with her statue even though it was almost certainly carved by someone who knew her well. The statue was lifeless, and that made all  the difference.

Does she have that affect that men? We're told of only two men who were besotted with her, and one of those men was clearly more in love with the image of her that the actual girl. That scene with the statue was showing how little Robert knew of the real Lyanna, not that it didn't capture her spirit.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

This is her story .

[Starkz]

1 hour ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

The Dothraki follow her because she has strength and power. The dragons were just glorified lizards when they first submitted to her.

Daario followed her for the same reason. His fascination with her has as much to do with her Queenliness as it does her beauty. If it was just about her looks, he would have just found a brothel in Lys.

Does she have that affect that men? We're told of only two men who were besotted with her, and one of those men was clearly more in love with the image of her that the actual girl. That scene with the statue was showing how little Robert knew of the real Lyanna, not that it didn't capture her spirit.

The Dragons are her strength and power... that’s why they follow her, because she has dragons. Daario followed her because of her looks and he enjoyed the power she gave him/that she had yes. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

29 minutes ago, Starkz said:

The Dragons are her strength and power... that’s why they follow her, because she has dragons. Daario followed her because of her looks and he enjoyed the power she gave him/that she had yes. 

She was able to bring these great beasts back-that's why they follow her-if she could do that there is no telling what great things she can do. If the dragons just hatched in their own, likely the dothraki  would have not cared that the eggs were in Daenarys' possession when it happened-I imagine they'd just take them and still deliver Daenarys to Vaes Darek to spend the rest of her days. She proved herself exctraordinary-that's why they follow her. 

[Starkz]

3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

She was able to bring these great beasts back-that's why they follow her-if she could do that there is no telling what great things she can do. If the dragons just hatched in their own, likely the dothraki  would have not cared that the eggs were in Daenarys' possession when it happened-I imagine they'd just take them and still deliver Daenarys to Vaes Darek to spend the rest of her days. She proved herself exctraordinary-that's why they follow her. 

So we both agree they follow her because she has dragons, correct?

[Hodor the Articulate]

3 hours ago, Starkz said:

So we both agree they follow her because she has dragons, correct?

Well, you could also say the Northmen made Robb KitN because his Grey Wind bit off Greatjon's fingers, but that would be extremely reductive. Again, the dragons were lizards when they hatched. It was Dany's actions that earned the respect of her khalasar.

[Geddus]

On 9/2/2018 at 8:04 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Robert idealizes things during that period. Lyanna in particular we see this when he says Lyanna would approve of him participating in his own tournament for instance.  It's very possible Robert  is committing the same sin in regards to remembering what she looked like aesthetically.

Not really. Robert isn't saying that Lyanna would have let him participate, he's saying that she wouldn't have shamed him by forbidding him to fight in front of the entire court.

Here:

Quote

 

“The woman tried to forbid me to fight in the melee. She’s sulking in the castle now, damn her. Your sister would never have shamed me like that.”

“You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert,” Ned told him. “You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath. She would have told you that you have no business in the melee.”

 

But Ned doesn't know the whole story. Varys later tells him, and...

Quote

 

“Your friend, I know, yet a fool nonetheless… and doomed, unless you save him. Today was a near thing. They had hoped to kill him during the melee.”

For a moment Ned was speechless with shock. “Who?”

Varys sipped his wine. “If I truly need to tell you that, you are a bigger fool than Robert and I am on the wrong side.”

“The Lannisters,” Ned said. “The queen… no, I will not believe that, not even of Cersei. She asked him not to fight!”

“She forbade him to fight, in front of his brother, his knights, and half the court. Tell me truly, do you know any surer way to force King Robert into the melee? I ask you.”

Ned had a sick feeling in his gut. The eunuch had hit upon a truth; tell Robert Baratheon he could not, should not, or must not do a thing, and it was as good as done.

 

So Robert was most probably right, he wasn't idealizing Lyanna. Could be that his other memories of her were correct as well.

[The Commentator]

On 8/29/2018 at 10:40 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

I better not highlight your personal bias on this issue, lest my post mysteriously disappears again.

Let me instead counter your argument, by stating the obvious, which is that Jon’s path is quite clearly the classic hero’s journey, with his current “death” the low point before his “enlightenment” and embrace of his destiny. One has to be blind not to see it.

I sure hope Jon's path has ended with his assassination.   By destiny, I hope you don't mean for this bonehead to rule the kingdom.   Jon's fans must be blind if they don't see how unfit he is for the leadership of a realm.  A man who cannot follow rules that he expects others to follow is not good leadership material for a society.  The only place where his personality would fit in is with the wildlings.

[The Commentator]

On 9/1/2018 at 10:57 PM, Starkz said:

Arya is said to look like Lyanna whom a war was started over. Lyanna was beautiful and when Arya gets older she too will probably be but only time can tell. Pretty and beautiful are rather the same thing so I’m not sure what you’re getting at by saying some characters are beautiful and some are pretty. I suppose if you’re trying to start a spectrum some character might rank lower in the beautiful rankings but that doesn’t mean they’re not or that there is a shortage. The “stunning women” you noted are just your opinion of who are at the top of your spectrum. Majority of the main woman characters GRRM creates are made as beautiful/pretty and considered such. I don’t doubt for a second that there isnt always one somewhere that will be more beautiful than the next.

 

Being beautiful to someone has more to do with than just looks.

Ned was only trying to make Arya feel better.  Arya can share some of the same features with Lyanna and still not look the same.  The Freys have weak chin but they don't all look the same.  The Manderly's are all apple shaped people but they don't all look the same.  You can tell them apart.  So it is possible for Arya and Lyanna to share the same family appearance but still not look like twins.  Arya is not called horseface simply for having slightly long face.  She must also have features that are not attractive.  And to your point that she may grow up looking alright, yeah, that is very possible.

[Starkz]

3 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

I sure hope Jon's path has ended with his assassination.   By destiny, I hope you don't mean for this bonehead to rule the kingdom.   Jon's fans must be blind if they don't see how unfit he is for the leadership of a realm.  A man who cannot follow rules that he expects others to follow is not good leadership material for a society.  The only place where his personality would fit in is with the wildlings.

The rules of the NW are constraints stopping Jon from doing what he really needs to do. It’s the whole point GRRM has been trying to make in all the books to this point. Jon has been fighting his inner nature to do what he thinks is right because of his vows. This is how GRRM is going to get him out of his vows. The “rules” Jon doesn’t follow is that of not getting involved in the realm which he needs to be if the North has any chance of surviving the AoTD. Also quite a few members of the NW go to Moles Town so they too are breaking the “rules”.

[Starkz]

7 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Well, you could also say the Northmen made Robb KitN because his Grey Wind bit off Greatjon's fingers, but that would be extremely reductive. Again, the dragons were lizards when they hatched. It was Dany's actions that earned the respect of her khalasar.

"Dragons are nuclear deterrent, and Dany has them, which makes her the most powerful person in the world. But is that sufficient? Power is more subtle than that. You can have the power to destroy, but it doesn’t give you the power to reform, or improve, or build."

 

-GRRM, 2014.

[Starkz]

7 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Well, you could also say the Northmen made Robb KitN because his Grey Wind bit off Greatjon's fingers, but that would be extremely reductive. Again, the dragons were lizards when they hatched. It was Dany's actions that earned the respect of her khalasar.

Right the action of hatching the dragons lol. Y’all are just finding different ways to say the same thing. She hatched dragons, she earned their respect and they followed her afterwards.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

9 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Well, you could also say the Northmen made Robb KitN because his Grey Wind bit off Greatjon's fingers, but that would be extremely reductive. Again, the dragons were lizards when they hatched. It was Dany's actions that earned the respect of her khalasar.

Daenerys is a proven great leader.  They follow her because she has proven her abilities when she led them through the Red Waste and saved The Unsullied from their owners.  

[White Ravens]

On 9/2/2018 at 8:08 AM, manchester_babe said:

Well she worshiped everywhere she goes. Why is that? I just don't understand. Why he'd do that. I mean that made her queen at the end/beginning of a clash of kings. 

She isn't worshiped everywhere she goes.  She makes plenty of enemies along the way.  But it is pretty easy to see why many of the characters she comes in contact with would support her.  The whole world thought that the Targaryen empire had died, but here she is, ready to challenge the Iron Throne for her right to rule Westeros and she's got three weapons of mass destruction (dragons) to strengthen her claim.  People throw their support behind her because they think she can succeed in overthrowing the Baratheons and Essos already has quite a few people who passionately wish for that to happen.  GRRM needed to set her up early in the books as a very real threat that is capable of mustering an invading force to back her dragon muscle.  Also, she isn't just pretty, she is off the scale, just like all the rest of the Valyrians.  On a human scale of 1 to 10 Daenerys is an 11.  People are often gullible suckers when dealing with very attractive people. 

[Springwatch]

20 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Does she have that affect that men?

Yes, I think Lyanna does have an enormous effect on men:

• Robert the philanderer remains in love his entire life.
• Oh-so-serious Rhaegar abandons his kingdom to war and destruction.
• Her own brother (Ned) thinks she's transcendently beautiful.
• Family man Kevan finds himself struggling to define her beauty in comparison to Cersei.

All this seems madly out of character for each of them.

 

[Lord Varys]

On 9/2/2018 at 12:19 PM, Springwatch said:

I would still include Lyanna in that group, because of the effect she has on people (mostly men) - not because of her physical appearance so much as everything else that makes up beauty: charm, animation, attitude. It's notable that Robert is disappointed with her statue even though it was almost certainly carved by someone who knew her well. The statue was lifeless, and that made all  the difference.

The fact that a woman has a strong impact on a bunch of important men doesn't mean she must have been very beautiful. Lyanna does not fit traditional criteria of beauty in Westeros which is why I think we should not count her among such women.

Charisma, passion, intelligence, etc. are all important criteria if you are looking for a companion, partner, or spouse, but they have nothing to do with physical beauty. If I say you are beautiful I've said nothing about your character, intelligence, charisma, temperament, etc.

On 9/2/2018 at 12:53 PM, T and A said:

George RR Martin would strongely disagree . He once stated that from all the women in Westeros he created, Ariane is the most beautiful and the hottest of them all. But beauty is a matter of taste, so no point to argue about that I guess. 

I recall somewhat like that, but from how he describes Arianne she is not exactly in the same league as Cersei or Daenerys (or even Val). She is very sexy and all, but we don't get descriptions of her in a manner that everybody pretty much has to look at her. And she has inherited her mother's small stature, which objectively limits her beauty somewhat, even if she were otherwise perfect (although that's an issue Dany has to deal with, too).

Size does matter ;-).

On 9/2/2018 at 12:53 PM, T and A said:

Before I watched GOT, I pictured Margaery Tyrell as a good looking girl, but not a beauty. Since she was played by Natalie Dormer, I only envision her as Natalie when I read about her, and now she is the best looking girl in whole Westeros for me .

Natalie Dormer was no good choice for Margaery due to the age gap, but I'd say she met the criteria pretty much. Dormer is not one of the most stunning woman alive. She has a nice figure and a pretty face - which is also all Margaery has. She is great beauty.

But tastes differ.

[Rufus Snow]

26 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Yes, I think Lyanna does have an enormous effect on men:

• Robert the philanderer remains in love his entire life.
• Oh-so-serious Rhaegar abandons his kingdom to war and destruction.
• Her own brother (Ned) thinks she's transcendently beautiful.
• Family man Kevan finds himself struggling to define her beauty in comparison to Cersei.

All this seems madly out of character for each of them.

 

I think where Kevan is concerned you are 180 degrees out:

Quote

She will never wash the stain away, no matter how hard she scrubs. Ser Kevan remembered the girl she once had been, so full of life and mischief. And when she'd flowered, ahhhh … had there ever been a maid so sweet to look upon? If Aerys had agreed to marry her to Rhaegar, how many deaths might have been avoided? Cersei could have given the prince the sons he wanted, lions with purple eyes and silver manes … and with such a wife, Rhaegar might never have looked twice at Lyanna Stark. The northern girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled, though however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun.

Lyanna was a 'torch' to Cersei's 'sun'. That is hardly a resounding endorsement of Lyanna's beauty, IMHO.

Regarding the others, I'm not sure Robert was 'in love' his whole life - he may well have been obsessed, but even Ned tells Robert he never really knew Lyanna. Robert seemed to to me to be more concerned that Rhaegar took her from him, more than about what he had lost.

And Rhaegar is no longer around to question, but the questions abound nonetheless - was he swayed by prophecy, overwhelmed by her spirit, or was he one of those rare men who can truly love and appreciate a woman for reasons beyond simple physical beauty?

Ned - I don't recall any such claim from him, but brothers can be most chivalrous to their sisters.....

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Melisandre should also be taken into consideration for her beauty.  The red eyes might be a bit creepy though.

[Starkz]

26 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Melisandre should also be taken into consideration for her beauty.  The red eyes might be a bit creepy though.

Forgot about her. She definitely has some voo doo keeping her looking good.