Why did George give daenerys everything

[Hodor the Articulate]

7 hours ago, Starkz said:

"Dragons are nuclear deterrent, and Dany has them, which makes her the most powerful person in the world. But is that sufficient? Power is more subtle than that. You can have the power to destroy, but it doesn’t give you the power to reform, or improve, or build."

 

-GRRM, 2014.

"But is that sufficient? Power is more subtle than that" So....GRRM agrees with me.

7 hours ago, Starkz said:

Right the action of hatching the dragons lol. Y’all are just finding different ways to say the same thing. She hatched dragons, she earned their respect and they followed her afterwards.

Yes, but they don't respect her because she owns dragons, which is what you implied. If she walked out of that pyre with three chickens, they'd still respect her. She'd still be "the Unburnt".

3 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Yes, I think Lyanna does have an enormous effect on men:

• Robert the philanderer remains in love his entire life.
• Oh-so-serious Rhaegar abandons his kingdom to war and destruction.
• Her own brother (Ned) thinks she's transcendently beautiful.
• Family man Kevan finds himself struggling to define her beauty in comparison to Cersei.

All this seems madly out of character for each of them.

• Robert was as in love with Lyanna as Sansa was with Joffrey. The image of the girl he had in his head didn't look or act anything like the real Lyanna, as evidenced by the crypt scene and all the times he wrongly portrays her personality. Robert's "love" for Lyanna had nothing to do with Lyanna, herself.
• I don't recall Ned describing her beauty as "transcendental". Besides, he's her brother...and not in a Targ way.
• Kevan doesn't struggle in comparing her to Cersei at all. He calls Lyanna a "wild beauty" but also says that "however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun". You could call him biased because he is related to Cersei, but his assessment of Cersei being extremely beautiful is backed up by just about every other character.

So all you really have is Rhaegar, and I don't think that was because Lyanna was the most desired woman in Westeros. She was just the right girl for his personal tastes. To everyone else, she wasn't conventionally beautiful as Cersei or Dany is. Nor was she charming as Sansa is.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Size does matter ;-).

I think GRRM has a personal preference for little skinny chicks though. And big nipples.

[Starkz]

2 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

"But is that sufficient? Power is more subtle than that" So....GRRM agrees with me.

Yes, but they don't respect her because she owns dragons, which is what you implied. If she walked out of that pyre with three chickens, they'd still respect her. She'd still be "the Unburnt".

• Robert was as in love with Lyanna as Sansa was with Joffrey. The image of the girl he had in his head didn't look or act anything like the real Lyanna, as evidenced by the crypt scene and all the times he wrongly portrays her personality. Robert's "love" for Lyanna had nothing to do with Lyanna, herself.
• I don't recall Ned describing her beauty as "transcendental". Besides, he's her brother...and not in a Targ way.
• Kevan doesn't struggle in comparing her to Cersei at all. He calls Lyanna a "wild beauty" but also says that "however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun". You could call him biased because he is related to Cersei, but his assessment of Cersei being extremely beautiful is backed up by just about every other character.

So all you really have is Rhaegar, and I don't think that was because Lyanna was the most desired woman in Westeros. She was just the right girl for his personal tastes. To everyone else, she wasn't conventionally beautiful as Cersei or Dany is. Nor was she charming as Sansa is.

So either way her having supernatural ability/dragons is why people respect/follow her which is what we’ve both been saying the whole time but you continually seem to be denying what I am saying for some reason. 

Every characters comment on Lyanna seems to imply that she was indeed beautiful and had a wild nature to go along with it which both Rheager and Robert seemed to have liked. She could of been even more desirable than both Cersei and Dany but that’s left to readers personal opinions on what we prefer. 

[Hodor the Articulate]

43 minutes ago, Starkz said:

So either way her having supernatural ability/dragons is why people respect/follow her which is what we’ve both been saying the whole time but you continually seem to be denying what I am saying for some reason. 

The reason is that it's misleading and reductive to say people follow her for her dragons. It implies that's the only reason she's amassed her following, and ignores the underlying reason people follow her.

50 minutes ago, Starkz said:

Every characters comment on Lyanna seems to imply that she was indeed beautiful and had a wild nature to go along with it which both Rheager and Robert seemed to have liked. She could of been even more desirable than both Cersei and Dany but that’s left to readers personal opinions on what we prefer. 

"Wild beauty" is another way of saying unconventional beauty. She may have been 100% to some people's tastes (as she was for Rhaegar), but she didn't fit the Westeros standard of beauty like Cersei, Dany, and Sansa. Those three characters are regarded by everyone as beautiful.

I doubt the real Lyanna would have appealed to Robert. He thinks Lyanna was far more beautiful than her statue in the crypt, which shows he idealised her looks in his head. He also thinks Lyanna wouldn't challenge him when she's just as temperamental as Cersei.

[Springwatch]

3 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

"Wild beauty" is another way of saying unconventional beauty. She may have been 100% to some people's tastes (as she was for Rhaegar), but she didn't fit the Westeros standard of beauty like Cersei, Dany, and Sansa. Those three characters are regarded by everyone as beautiful.

Lyanna didn't have features like Dany & co., but people thought she was beautiful all the same (everyone at Winterfell said she was beautiful, Ned said her beauty was 'surpassing'). It doesn't really matter where beauty stops and charm begins - whatever 'it' is, Lyanna had it.

Kevan had no imagination, Robert had no fidelity, Ned was a non-Targ brother, Rhaegar had dedicated his life to his kingdom.  Whatever Lyanna had was quite a force. The way love is being portrayed in these books is like a glamour.

[Sea Dragon]

On August 30, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Lord Varys said:

To answer the original question:

Because George loves Dany. Read 'The Glass Flower' and 'Fevre Dream' - George really has a thing for those (proto-)Targaryens.

There was never any doubt that Dany is one of his favorite characters.

I don't think it is fair to say that just because the author wrote something 20 years ago that he is doing it again. I mean, I never read that book so how would I know that?

[Sea Dragon]

On September 2, 2018 at 9:02 PM, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

This is her story .

Yes. Danaerys and Jon and Arya will remake Aegon the conquerer and marry and rule on the iron throne together. Maybe each one will cover a specific area or something? 

[Sea Dragon]

22 hours ago, Starkz said:

"Dragons are nuclear deterrent, and Dany has them, which makes her the most powerful person in the world. But is that sufficient? Power is more subtle than that. You can have the power to destroy, but it doesn’t give you the power to reform, or improve, or build."

 

-GRRM, 2014.

Wow. I never heard the author say this before. I was curious what else he said so I looked up the quote. This is the full quote I found and it seems like the author doesn't have faith the USA? What do you think he means? 

Quote

“Dragons are the nuclear deterrent, and only Daenerys Targaryen has them, which in some ways makes her the most powerful person in the world,” Martin said in 2011. “But is that sufficient? These are the kind of issues I’m trying to explore. The United States right now has the ability to destroy the world with our nuclear arsenal, but that doesn’t mean we can achieve specific geopolitical goals. Power is more subtle than that. You can have the power to destroy, but it doesn’t give you the power to reform, or improve, or build.”

 

[T and A]

17 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Natalie Dormer was no good choice for Margaery due to the age gap, but I'd say she met the criteria pretty much. Dormer is not one of the most stunning woman alive. She has a nice figure and a pretty face - which is also all Margaery has. She is great beauty.

But tastes differ.

In the show the characters are much older than in the books. In the Show, Margaery is not a teenager. Neither are Jon, Danny and co. (which btw. I find much better than showing thirteen year old kids having sex). Dormer was 29 when she was casted as Margaery. She played a mid twenty year old character, which is pretty OK from a casting perspective. Also Natalie did not really look as a end 20 year old women, especially given the amazing make up artists of the show. So, imo she was the perfect choice for Margaery. Anyway, each their own ;).

[Starkz]

10 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

The reason is that it's misleading and reductive to say people follow her for her dragons. It implies that's the only reason she's amassed her following, and ignores the underlying reason people follow her.

"Wild beauty" is another way of saying unconventional beauty. She may have been 100% to some people's tastes (as she was for Rhaegar), but she didn't fit the Westeros standard of beauty like Cersei, Dany, and Sansa. Those three characters are regarded by everyone as beautiful.

I doubt the real Lyanna would have appealed to Robert. He thinks Lyanna was far more beautiful than her statue in the crypt, which shows he idealised her looks in his head. He also thinks Lyanna wouldn't challenge him when she's just as temperamental as Cersei.

Well how did Dany get the Unsullied? How did Dany get her people to follow her across the Red Waste? Because she has dragons. Without dragons she wouldn’t have amassed the following she has it’s a fact not an opinion.  People follow her because she has dragons and there’s nothing wrong with that it’s how GRRM made it.

[Starkz]

1 hour ago, Sea Dragon said:

Wow. I never heard the author say this before. I was curious what else he said so I looked up the quote. This is the full quote I found and it seems like the author doesn't have faith the USA? What do you think he means? 

 

GRRM is very very against war as we all know especially unjustified ones such as the U.S has found themselves in. He uses some of Dany’s journey as a conduit to this comparing what Dany is doing to the U.S. in Vietnam and Iraq going there and trying to change things when the U.S. had no right to and the U.S. is able to do this because of how powerful it is compared to these other countries. I believe he’s mirroring  the U.S failure in these places to Dany right now as she is trying to use her power to institute change in a place she has no right to. I do believe it may have a different outcome for her though but only time will tell.

[Night Train to Kathmandu]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:29 PM, Bowen 747 said:

Might as well also ask why George made Jaime Lannister good looking, rich, skilled in arms.  How about Jon Snow getting so many easy breaks at wall.  Holy crap, Jon got away with midnight desertion, attempted murder of Ser Alliser Thorne, and the unjust execution of Janos Slynt.  Why not ask about that?  Might also ask how it is that Sansa managed to keep her virginity intact after all of this time.  Is that even realistic?  Oh man, talk about a creature with 9 lives!  That's her virginity for you.    And little Arya Stark waltzing through the river lands and Braavos without getting murdered.  All I am saying is, it is unfair to single out Daenerys for being lovely, great leadership skills, smarts, fire resistant, and having dragons.  Daenerys has a lot in her arsenal and she is using it to rescue slaves from their masters.  We should all be supporting her.    

Why should somebody like Sansa, who is self-serving, have the same kind of arsenal.  It would be useless and misused on Sansa.  What would Arya do with this kind of firepower?  Yeah, kill everyone who she thinks was responsible for hurting the Starks.  What a waste of firepower that would be.  I'm not bashing on Arya.   Comparison with other characters is fair whenever one is singled out for either praise or criticism.   I am just saying there are others who have been given as much and some of them have not earned it.  And the gifted Cersei, who probably never went hungry in her life unless she was doing the Jenny Craig week, born rich, lovely, powerful, queen of westeros, victor over the Starks.  I say she was given these things without have to work for it.  She had it far easier than Daenerys.  Daenerys had to work for her resources.  The poor girl grew up without parents, abused by her brother, went through many days of hunger, suffered a childhood on the run, watched her brother sell their mother's crown just to eat, and then married off to the Dothraki.  Daenerys earned her resources and deserve her power.

I'm not starting a quarrel with manchester-babe.      I hope she does not take my disagreement as such.  I suppose if we get down to the brass tacks, our differences are down to who we support in the books and who we want to succeed.  I am obviously a fan of the Khaleesi.  I spent enough time on this web site to know the division which exists among the fans.  It is always at play here on the majority of the posts.  We all know who we like and do not like.   

 

Great response to the op.  

[Night Train to Kathmandu]

4 hours ago, Starkz said:

GRRM is very very against war as we all know especially unjustified ones such as the U.S has found themselves in. He uses some of Dany’s journey as a conduit to this comparing what Dany is doing to the U.S. in Vietnam and Iraq going there and trying to change things when the U.S. had no right to and the U.S. is able to do this because of how powerful it is compared to these other countries. I believe he’s mirroring  the U.S failure in these places to Dany right now as she is trying to use her power to institute change in a place she has no right to. I do believe it may have a different outcome for her though but only time will tell.

I strongly disagree with you.  George Martin said he would have fought against the Nazis.  The slave-owning masters are worse than the Nazis.  George Martin has also said, if he wanted to write about the war in Iraq he would, but that is not the story he is writing.  There is no comparison to the war against slavery.  

[Starkz]

34 minutes ago, Night Train to Kathmandu said:

I strongly disagree with you.  George Martin said he would have fought against the Nazis.  The slave-owning masters are worse than the Nazis.  George Martin has also said, if he wanted to write about the war in Iraq he would, but that is not the story he is writing.  There is no comparison to the war against slavery.  

GRRM constantly draws inspirations from history and his own personal views and he has said he is very against war. There is comparison to what Dany is trying to do and what the US tried to do in Vietnam and Iraq and there are clear parallels between the two. I just provided a paraphrase of it above. Slave-owners are definitely not worse than Nazis. You need to do some research on the Nazis and Germany during WWII if you seriously think that.

[Clegane'sPup]

What say posters get back on book track and leave nazis, vietnam and iraq outta the mix.

55 minutes ago, Night Train to Kathmandu said:

George Martin said he would have fought against the Nazis. 

When a poster throws that out I would expect a reliable source to be provided.

5 hours ago, Starkz said:

Well how did Dany get the Unsullied? How did Dany get her people to follow her across the Red Waste? Because she has dragons. Without dragons she wouldn’t have amassed the following she has it’s a fact not an opinion.  People follow her because she has dragons and there’s nothing wrong with that it’s how GRRM made it.

I would add that in story superstitious people and gossip spread the word that Dany walked into a fire ---- in which she survived and dragons hatched. I do agree that without the dragons Dany would be powerless to achieve what she has.

For me part of the discussion is that individuals in story understand the power potential of the dragons. As of the end of DwD, Dany has no absolute control of her dragons. People in story want the dragons. Some want the dragons live and some want the dragons dead. A full grown controllable dragon in this story is the ultimate weapon.

Dany's cliffhanger in DwD is that she went to stand beside her dragon as Khal Jhaqo and his 50 men approached. That leaves a bunch of speculation.

The Dothraki are excellent bowmen. Do they kill Drogon or bow down? Or, or , or

 

[Hodor the Articulate]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:07 PM, Springwatch said:

Lyanna didn't have features like Dany & co., but people thought she was beautiful all the same (everyone at Winterfell said she was beautiful, Ned said her beauty was 'surpassing'). It doesn't really matter where beauty stops and charm begins - whatever 'it' is, Lyanna had it. 

Kevan had no imagination, Robert had no fidelity, Ned was a non-Targ brother, Rhaegar had dedicated his life to his kingdom.  Whatever Lyanna had was quite a force. The way love is being portrayed in these books is like a glamour.

Lyanna is in no way portrayed as a "quite a force" except in her romance with Rhaegar. The general consensus in Westeros is that Lyanna was a pretty girl but I don't get the sense that she was someone who had every man falling at her feet - only one man did that ( I've given reasons as to why her affect on Robert and Ned doesn't count).

I don't know why Robert's fidelity keeps on getting brought up. He was whoring his way through Westeros while he was supposedly fighting for Lyanna's honor.

17 hours ago, Starkz said:

Well how did Dany get the Unsullied? How did Dany get her people to follow her across the Red Waste? Because she has dragons. Without dragons she wouldn’t have amassed the following she has it’s a fact not an opinion.  People follow her because she has dragons and there’s nothing wrong with that it’s how GRRM made it.

She got the Unsullied by tricking Kraznys. She got her people to follow her through the Red Waste by being all "bitch, I'm the leader. Do as I say".

[Lord Varys]

Lyanna was only 13-14 years old at Harrenhal. She wasn't a woman yet, she was still a girl. She was Lord Rickard's only daughter and as such she was the princess of the North, getting everything she wanted considering she had Arya's personality and no older sister to compete with who was truly beautiful.

Whatever charms Lyanna may have had would have much more to do with her personality and character than her looks.

Lyanna may already have had the body of a woman at that young age, but an Arya with breasts and hips is not going to lose her long face - which is clearly not very beautiful compared to people with truly beautiful facial features.

This doesn't mean that people won't fall in love with Arya or Lyanna, just that even those people won't say Arya/Lyanna is more beautiful than Sansa, Daenerys, Cersei, Ashara, etc.

[Starkz]

8 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

 

She got the Unsullied by tricking Kraznys. She got her people to follow her through the Red Waste by being all "bitch, I'm the leader. Do as I say".

How did she trick him? What did she offer him? Why did she become “the leader”? Arguing she did these things on her own is ridiculous. Dany’s accomplishments come from her dragons arguing otherwise is ridiculous.

[Angel Eyes]

I'd say George hasn't given her everything, since Daenerys, as far as I know, doesn't have combat capabilities. 

[Hodor the Articulate]

4 hours ago, Starkz said:

How did she trick him? What did she offer him? Why did she become “the leader”? Arguing she did these things on her own is ridiculous. Dany’s accomplishments come from her dragons arguing otherwise is ridiculous.

I'm not arguing that she everything on her own; I'm arguing against you implying everything she achieved was down to dragons, as if any other character could get to where she did if they were just given dragons.

[Gendarrion]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'd say George hasn't given her everything, since Daenerys, as far as I know, doesn't have combat capabilities. 

She's a dragon rider and can command them when to breath fire to her enemies, I think that's the best combat capability anyone can ask for.