Why did George give daenerys everything

[Starkz]

2 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

I'm not arguing that she everything on her own; I'm arguing against you implying everything she achieved was down to dragons, as if any other character could get to where she did if they were just given dragons.

The majority of everything she has achieved has been because of dragons. I’m not implying anything, it’s a fact. Different characters would do different things with 3 dragons saying that other characters couldn’t “get to where she did” is ridiculous. Maybe some couldn’t, maybe some would get farther. Could you imagine Tywin with 3 dragons? Stannis with 3 dragons? They would get very very far in their goals.

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, Gendarrion said:

She's a dragon rider and can command them when to breath fire to her enemies, I think that's the best combat capability anyone can ask for.

A dragon can’t fit in close quarters. And Unsullied don’t do well either.

[Starkz]

1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

A dragon can’t fit in close quarters. And Unsullied don’t do well either.

Unsullied in close quarters in formation I would imagine would be pretty effective.

[Angel Eyes]

Just now, Starkz said:

Unsullied in close quarters in formation I would imagine would be pretty effective.

They how do they get outmatched by Sons of the Harpy in Meereen?

[Starkz]

1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

They how do they get outmatched by Sons of the Harpy in Meereen?

Element of surprise, home territory advantage, planned attacks?

[Anck Su Namun]

On 8/20/2018 at 8:14 PM, manchester_babe said:

Why did Geroge give Dany everything in book 1, inhuman beauty, dragons, her becoming queen in the end. 

What Daenerys Targaryen has over other beautiful women (Cersei and Sansa for example) is her intelligence.  She is also very brave and quite resourceful.  The choices she made gave her the dragons.  She earned the loyalty of her Unsullied.  George gave Daenerys a lot of assets but he also took away a lot of things.  She lost her kingdom, parents, siblings, husband, and son.  That is more tragedy suffered by anyone.   The hero must have her weapons to fight evil and that is what she has.

[Anck Su Namun]

4 hours ago, Starkz said:

The majority of everything she has achieved has been because of dragons. I’m not implying anything, it’s a fact. Different characters would do different things with 3 dragons saying that other characters couldn’t “get to where she did” is ridiculous. Maybe some couldn’t, maybe some would get farther. Could you imagine Tywin with 3 dragons? Stannis with 3 dragons? They would get very very far in their goals.

Not really.  Stannis has a fatal character flaw.  His lack of compassion will end up turning people against him.  He would burn all of the people who didn't believe his accusations against Joffrey.  The man burned his own soldiers.  Tywin would use dragons to further the glory of his own house.  But he would fail in the end because his children are fuckups.  Having dragons is not going to stop the idiocy of Jaime and Cersei.   Give Jon a dragon and he would break his night's watch oaths to attack the Boltons with fire.  That is very irresponsible for someone who took the vows of the night's watch to do.  

 

[thi4f]

1 hour ago, Anck Su Namun said:

He would burn all of the people who didn't believe his accusations against Joffrey.

Based on what?

[Springwatch]

On 9/5/2018 at 11:30 AM, Hodor the Articulate said:

Lyanna is in no way portrayed as a "quite a force" except in her romance with Rhaegar. The general consensus in Westeros is that Lyanna was a pretty girl but I don't get the sense that she was someone who had every man falling at her feet - only one man did that ( I've given reasons as to why her affect on Robert and Ned doesn't count).

I've given reasons too - we're talking past one another. And who said anything about every man falling at her feet?

On 9/5/2018 at 11:30 AM, Hodor the Articulate said:

I don't know why Robert's fidelity keeps on getting brought up. He was whoring his way through Westeros while he was supposedly fighting for Lyanna's honor.

Fidelity in love. 15 years later, he's still in love. (Yes, I know what you think.)

On 9/5/2018 at 11:30 AM, Hodor the Articulate said:

She got the Unsullied by tricking Kraznys. She got her people to follow her through the Red Waste by being all "bitch, I'm the leader. Do as I say".

Kraznys acted incredibly stupidly in Dany's presence.  She didn't say anything amazingly clever to achieve this, so we have to say it's either random, unsupported craziness, or that mind-bending, stupefying beauty is indeed a thing in Westeros, to a degree well beyond the impact of smooth, symmetrical features.

The only measure of beauty that we've got is the sum of the consequences of those irrational acts, done for the beautiful one.

So Dany gets three dragon eggs from Ilyrio, Kraznys loses the control of all Unsullied, Xaro is incredibly generous, Drogo commits to the one thing Dothraki fear - crossing the poison water - and for no personal advantage, just to give a crown to Viserys.

The sum of that irrationality says that Dany's beauty scores incredibly high. But even Dany's beauty doesn't work on every man, every time.

There's a substantial sum to be calculated for Lyanna, too...

[Starkz]

6 hours ago, Anck Su Namun said:

Not really.  Stannis has a fatal character flaw.  His lack of compassion will end up turning people against him.  He would burn all of the people who didn't believe his accusations against Joffrey.  The man burned his own soldiers.  Tywin would use dragons to further the glory of his own house.  But he would fail in the end because his children are fuckups.  Having dragons is not going to stop the idiocy of Jaime and Cersei.   Give Jon a dragon and he would break his night's watch oaths to attack the Boltons with fire.  That is very irresponsible for someone who took the vows of the night's watch to do.  

 

Everyone has different goals and dreams. You don’t know what Stannis,Tywin or Jon would do with dragons you’re just speculating, quite poorly I might say by speculating that they would be horrible/fail with them. Stannis is a fair hard man and convincing people of Jamie and Cersei wouldn’t be that hard even without 3 dragons considering people already have their doubts about Cersei’s children. Stannis would easily be on the Throne by now if he had three dragons and he isn’t as blind as the rest of the Southerns to the threat at the Wall. Tywin with 3 dragons would acomplish a lot and would solidify the Lannisters rule of the IT for many years to come, even without dragons he accomplished a lot more than anyone else has. For Jon him having three dragons would be a great thing for the war against the dead and displacing the Bolton’s rule of the North and unifying the North once again under the Stark name. Jon uniting the North and restoring the Stark name would be the most responsible thing he’s ever done.

[argonak]

On 9/6/2018 at 12:11 AM, Anck Su Namun said:

What Daenerys Targaryen has over other beautiful women (Cersei and Sansa for example) is her intelligence.  She is also very brave and quite resourceful.  The choices she made gave her the dragons.  She earned the loyalty of her Unsullied.  George gave Daenerys a lot of assets but he also took away a lot of things.  She lost her kingdom, parents, siblings, husband, and son.  That is more tragedy suffered by anyone.   The hero must have her weapons to fight evil and that is what she has.

The first time I read Dany's chapters, I found her to be a bit mary sue and felt like she had too much plot armor.  I'm rereading the books (up to AFFC) and have a bit of a different reaction now.  I think I was too caught up in wanting to read about Starks to really pay attention to her storyline.  

I still feel like she has a bit too much plot armor, but she's certainly earned quite a few of her victories.  The trick with the unsullied was all her, as was giving them their freedom (which has made them go from unswearvingly loyal brainwashed slave soldiers to nigh fanatical death commandos).  Defeating Yunkai, was all her ideas, risky, but it paid off.  Mereen was her too, although mostly in having the will to order men to fight through a hellish sewer, and the charisma for them to actually go.  And I totally buy her having the charisma and inspiring the loyalty she does.  

And most of the time George has been relatively practical in how the world reacts to her "hero moments."  Astapoor she freed the slaves, and left it with a council of wise men to rule it justly.  Just like a storybook hero would do.  A mad butcher took the place over and murdered the wise men, and the city turned into a charnel house.  At Yunkai all the slaves were freed, but it nearly destroyed her because she couldn't feed them.  When she loses track of her mission, conquer westeros, things generally go bad for her.  I really like her story though now, becuse its a interesting twist on the typical hero journey. 

The dragon thing is her first hero moment.  It drives everything else.  Did she earn the dragons?  No, of course not.  But most heroes don't earn their first hero moment.  Arthur pulling the sword in the stone.  Luke feeling the force.  Most heroes get the first gift from fate, but then have to earn the rest of their journey.  And I think Dany is generally earning her journey.

[Targaryen Restoration]

On 9/4/2018 at 5:35 PM, Night Train to Kathmandu said:

I strongly disagree with you.  George Martin said he would have fought against the Nazis.  The slave-owning masters are worse than the Nazis.  George Martin has also said, if he wanted to write about the war in Iraq he would, but that is not the story he is writing.  There is no comparison to the war against slavery.  

Ah the Rolling Stone interview.  He mentioned WWII is a war he would be glad to fight in.  He said the same thing on a Y-tube interview.  

Yup, the slavers are worse than the Nazis.  

Quote

In 1966, you entered Northwestern, in Evanston, Illinois. I know that in the years that followed you underwent some serious moral and political changes due to your opposition to the Vietnam War.
I was, like many kids of my generation, a hawk. I accepted that America was the good guys, we had to be there. When I got into college, the more I learned about our involvement in Vietnam, the more it seemed wrong to me. Of course, the draft was happening, and I decided to ask for the conscientious-objector status. I wasn’t a complete pacifist; I couldn’t claim to be that. I was what they called an objector to a particular war. I would have been glad to fight in World War II. But Vietnam was the only war on the menu. So I applied for conscientious-objector status in full belief that I would be rejected, and that I would have a further decision to make: Army, jail or Canada. I don’t know what I would’ve done. Those were desperately hard decisions, and every kid had to make them for himself. To my surprise, they gave me the status. I was later told – I have no way to prove this – that I was granted the status because our conservative draft board felt that anyone who applied for CO status should be granted it, because that would be punishment enough: Then it would be part of their permanent record, and everybody would know that they were a Commie sympathizer, and it would ruin their lives.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-242487/

 

Fighting against slavery is the one of the few justified wars.  It is a much better cause than Robb's.  And way better and more beneficial than Jon's planned attack on House Bolton.

[Lord Varys]

In relation to the dragons one has to keep in mind that it is not the dragons that make the Dothraki effectively make Dany their living goddess after the pyre. It is the fact that she hatched those dragon eggs and survived a fire that should have killed without so much as blister on her skin.

This is a huge and impressive miracle, and George quite correctly portrays people witnessing such a powerful event - it transcends their culture and motivates to really pledge themselves to this woman because she larger than everything they have seen before - or dreamed they would ever see.

We also see this with belief in R'hllor spreading in the Riverlands. Thoros works real miracles, and that causes many of his men to abandon their old religion and join this new cult which actually can deliver where the others all offer only empty promises.

[Starkz]

56 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

Ah the Rolling Stone interview.  He mentioned WWII is a war he would be glad to fight in.  He said the same thing on a Y-tube interview.  

Yup, the slavers are worse than the Nazis.  

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-242487/

 

Fighting against slavery is the one of the few justified wars.  It is a much better cause than Robb's.  And way better and more beneficial than Jon's planned attack on House Bolton.

GRRM also has said in interviews how he’s against a foreign power going to other places and trying to institute changes. Slavers are not worse than Nazis and if anyone thinks that you need to go back to school. Robb was fighting for his family and a unified North with a Stark in Winterfell will be very important when the dead come, more important than a fight against slavery.

[Sigella]

2 minutes ago, Starkz said:

Slavers are not worse than Nazis and if anyone thinks that you need to go back to school. 

Not worse? Really? If you have some backing for the nazis mass-prostituting children, having world-renowned forced gladiator shows, and making soldiers like the unsullied I'd love to hear it.

 

FYI all the nobles are nazis in Planetos: they think they have a birthright, they make war on others lands, they kill people and they work them to death - which is what the nazis did.

[Starkz]

4 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Not worse? Really? If you have some backing for the nazis mass-prostituting children, having world-renowned forced gladiator shows, and making soldiers like the unsullied I'd love to hear it.

 

FYI all the nobles are nazis in Planetos: they think they have a birthright, they make war on others lands, they kill people and they work them to death - which is what the nazis did.

You must have missed the part in class where they went over the experiments the Nazis did on them. There are several accounts of Nazis raping them and the experiments were far far worse. Mutilation, gas chambers, forced evolution just to name a few.  

 Not to mention the amount of people that died in war because of them and concentration camps.

[Lord Varys]

Guys, it makes no sense to compare Nazis and slavers as if they were villains in some video game.

This makes no sense, though:

23 minutes ago, Starkz said:

Robb was fighting for his family and a unified North with a Stark in Winterfell will be very important when the dead come, more important than a fight against slavery.

Robb and Ned both failed to do the right thing and focus on the threat north of the Wall. The North is as weak as it is now because Ned didn't hear on his gut/Bloodraven, and Robb just rushed off in a pointless war when he should instead have listened to Osha and Bran.

The Starks are responsible for the state their house is in right now, as well as for the state the North is in. If they hadn't been the morons they were Eddard Stark would still be the Stark in Winterfell. And he would be a man much better suited to deal with this threat than some half-grown children.

[Varysblackfyre321]

29 minutes ago, Starkz said:

GRRM also has said in interviews how he’s against a foreign power going to other places and trying to institute changes. Slavers are not worse than Nazis and if anyone thinks that you need to go back to school. Robb was fighting for his family and a unified North with a Stark in Winterfell will be very important when the dead come, more important than a fight against slavery.

Robb was fighting for vegence and to a lesser extent glory perhaps. For his war he was willing to sacrifice his sisters, and his entire war-effort seemed lost and his own mother begged him to think about all his loved ones that could be killed should he continue he makes clear him not making peace is merely pride-the lanisters "murdered his father, and thus he cannot submit to them no matter what the detriment to whoever innocent or guilty. His war driven by want for revenge and his ego isn't more important than a war driven by the desire to make sure millions are no longer enslaved.  Robb's war even if it did succeed merely made the North more vulnerable from attacks from the Ironborn and the actual cost of fighting it made sure rescources that could be spent on the white walkers weren't. 

Jon isn't a stark; even if was  to somehow beat House Bolton,  he's still bastard, oathbreaker, desertor and reported wildling lover(to which the lords don't like since the wildlings have been kidnapping then raping their women, and pillaging their lands for centuries) I imagine many of the lords of the north are not going to be ready to swear fealty to such a man. And honestly his actual chance of succeeding is not great to say the least. Jon himself tells Ygritte when that mance's invasion of the north with a wildling horde will not work-they are not disciplined, they're weapons are inferior. And Mance had a plenty more wildling Warriors than Jon and the northern province of being insecure given the powers that be are in the south-yet there wasn't a doubt in Jon's mind, the lords of the north could readily quash the wildlings invasion and Mance was leading his people to their deaths.

[Starkz]

9 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Robb was fighting for vegence and to a lesser extent glory perhaps. For his war he was willing to sacrifice his sisters, and his entire war-effort seemed lost and his own mother begged him to think about all his loved ones that could be killed should he continue he makes clear him not making peace is merely pride-the lanisters "murdered his father, and thus he cannot submit to them no matter what the detriment to whoever innocent or guilty. His war driven by want for revenge and his ego isn't more important than a war driven by the desire to make sure millions are no longer enslaved.  Robb's war even if it did succeed merely made the North more vulnerable from attacks from the Ironborn and the actual cost of fighting it made sure rescources that could be spent on the white walkers weren't. 

Jon isn't a stark; even if was  to somehow beat House Bolton,  he's still bastard, oathbreaker, desertor and reported wildling lover(to which the lords don't like since the wildlings have been kidnapping then raping their women, and pillaging their lands for centuries) I imagine many of the lords of the north are not going to be ready to swear fealty to such a man. And honestly his actual chance of succeeding is not great to say the least. Jon himself tells Ygritte when that mance's invasion of the north with a wildling horde will not work-they are not disciplined, they're weapons are inferior. And Mance had a plenty more wildling Warriors than Jon and the northern province of being insecure given the powers that be are in the south-yet there wasn't a doubt in Jon's mind, the lords of the north could readily quash the wildlings invasion and Mance was leading his people to their deaths.

I didn’t say Jon would take over Winterfell. He can reclaim it for the Stark name for Rickon or Sansa. Jon can integrate the Wildlings into Northern society also. He’s already began it by marrying Alys off.

[Starkz]

14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Guys, it makes no sense to compare Nazis and slavers as if they were villains in some video game.

This makes no sense, though:

Robb and Ned both failed to do the right thing and focus on the threat north of the Wall. The North is as weak as it is now because Ned didn't hear on his gut/Bloodraven, and Robb just rushed off in a pointless war when he should instead have listened to Osha and Bran.

The Starks are responsible for the state their house is in right now, as well as for the state the North is in. If they hadn't been the morons they were Eddard Stark would still be the Stark in Winterfell. And he would be a man much better suited to deal with this threat than some half-grown children.

Robb and Ned weren’t fully aware of the threat at the Wall. Ned tried to do the right thing and was executed for it. Robb began fighting to free his father and sisters.