Stone men appreciation thread

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Hatred does not stir the stone men half so much as hunger.^[2]

– Haldon

[Dorian Martell's son]

so, appreciate them some. What the hell is that meager quote? Talk about all the scenes you loved that they were in. Talk about how you fantasize about them when you are alone and in the dark. Say something.......

[kissdbyfire]

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

so, appreciate them some. What the hell is that meager quote? Talk about all the scenes you loved that they were in. Talk about how you fantasize about them when you are alone and in the dark. Say something.......

At the very least the op is not:

what if the stone men were... the WWs, or Daario, or Euron, or, worst ever, secret Targs, every last one of them!

[Kandrax]

Ladies, they are really hard in bed.

[shameeka]

ASOIAF version of leprosy stigma. The disfigured look and lack of treatment led them to be isolated from society. They're people who are very sick and famished, but circumstances made them become monsters. An insight of how medieval era dealt with epidemic without proper medical knowledge.

[Mordred]

Shireen and Connington will spread the disease.  Stone Men versus Snow Men.  

[Lollygag]

I’m not really sure exactly how we’re supposed to appreciate the stonemen but an analysis thread sounds like a fun idea. I think the quote in the OP is important so I’ll expand on it.

I think the wights, the stonemen and the undying are all connected though I can’t say exactly how. There are other similarities which I won’t go into here, but all are marked by the lack of water and dryness. The stone men may gravitate towards water because they lack water. Stone is noted for its absence of water, greyscale sounds like severely dry skin in that it turns hard and ashy, and the cracked skin and bleeding knuckles  mentioned by Tyrion also sounds like severely dry skin. I think it’s not hunger which drives the stonemen so much as thirst. There’s also a connection to throats and open mouths with the quote in the OP being the stone men’s reference. Along side this are that Jon (wights), Dany (undying) and Tyrion (stonemen) all have their breath taken which is linked to the open mouth/breath thing/hunger or rather thirst thing. All three are helped by fire.

 

ADWD Tyrion V

The only way not to breathe the fog is not to breathe. "Garin's Curse is only greyscale," said Tyrion. The curse was oft seen in children, especially in damp, cold climes. The afflicted flesh stiffened, calcified, and cracked, though the dwarf had read that greyscale's progress could be stayed by limes, mustard poultices, and scalding-hot baths (the maesters said) or by prayer, sacrifice, and fasting (the septons insisted). Then the disease passed, leaving its young victims disfigured but alive. Maesters and septons alike agreed that children marked by greyscale could never be touched by the rarer mortal form of the affliction, nor by its terrible swift cousin, the grey plague. "Damp is said to be the culprit," he said. "Foul humors in the air. Not curses."

...

The stone man flung the torch away. There was a soft hiss as the black waters quenched the flames. The stone man howled. He had been a Summer Islander, before; his jaw and half his cheek had turned to stone, but his skin was black as midnight where it was not grey. Where he had grasped the torch, his skin had cracked and split. Blood was seeping from his knuckles though he did not seem to feel it.

…

The sudden cold hit Tyrion like a hammer. As he sank he felt a stone hand fumbling at his face. Another closed around his arm, dragging him down into darkness. Blind, his nose full of river, choking, sinking, he kicked and twisted and fought to pry the clutching fingers off his arm, but the stone fingers were unyielding. Air bubbled from his lips. The world was black and growing blacker. He could not breathe.

 

ACOK Daenerys V

Long and low, without towers or windows, it coiled like a stone serpent through a grove of black-barked trees whose inky blue leaves made the stuff of the sorcerous drink the Qartheen called shade of the evening. No other buildings stood near. Black tiles covered the palace roof, many fallen or broken; the mortar between the stones was dry and crumbling. She understood now why Xaro Xhoan Daxos called it the Palace of Dust. Even Drogon seemed disquieted by the sight of it. The black dragon hissed, smoke seeping out between his sharp teeth.

...

When she stopped, she found herself in yet another dank stone chamber . . . but this time the door opposite was round, shaped like an open mouth, and Pyat Pree stood outside in the grass beneath the trees. "Can it be that the Undying are done with you so soon?" he asked in disbelief when he saw her.

…

One withered breast was left bare in the Qartheen manner, to show a pointed blue nipple hard as leather. 

…

The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

...

Then indigo turned to orange, and whispers turned to screams. Her heart was pounding, racing, the hands and mouths were gone, heat washed over her skin, and Dany blinked at a sudden glare. Perched above her, the dragon spread his wings and tore at the terrible dark heart, ripping the rotten flesh to ribbons, and when his head snapped forward, fire flew from his open jaws, bright and hot. She could hear the shrieks of the Undying as they burned, their high thin papery voices crying out in tongues long dead. Their flesh was crumbling parchment, their bones dry wood soaked in tallow. They danced as the flames consumed them; they staggered and writhed and spun and raised blazing hands on high, their fingers bright as torches.

 

AGOT Jon VII

Squatting beside the dead man he had named Jafer Flowers, Ser Jaremy grasped his head by the scalp. The hair came out between his fingers, brittle as straw. The knight cursed and shoved at the face with the heel of his hand. A great gash in the side of the corpse's neck opened like a mouth, crusted with dried blood. Only a few ropes of pale tendon still attached the head to the neck. "This was done with an axe."

...

Jon saw at once what Sam meant. He could see the torn veins in the dead man's wrist, iron worms in the pale flesh. His blood was a black dust. Yet Jaremy Rykker was unconvinced. "If they'd been dead much longer than a day, they'd be ripe by now, boy. They don't even smell."

...

"This … this is all wrong," Sam Tarly said earnestly. "The blood … there's bloodstains on their clothes, and … and their flesh, dry and hard, but … there's none on the ground, or … anywhere. With those … those … those …" Sam made himself swallow, took a deep breath. "With those wounds … terrible wounds … there should be blood all over. Shouldn't there?"

…

Jon's breath went out of him as the fallen table caught him between his shoulder blades. The sword, where was the sword? He'd lost the damned sword! When he opened his mouth to scream, the wight jammed its black corpse fingers into Jon's mouth. Gagging, he tried to shove it off, but the dead man was too heavy. Its hand forced itself farther down his throat, icy cold, choking him. Its face was against his own, filling the world. Frost covered its eyes, sparkling blue. Jon raked cold flesh with his nails and kicked at the thing's legs. He tried to bite, tried to punch, tried to breathe …

...

Truly, the gods had heard Jon's prayer that night; the fire had caught in the dead man's clothing and consumed him as if his flesh were candle wax and his bones old dry wood. Jon had only to close his eyes to see the thing staggering across the solar, crashing against the furniture and flailing at the flames. It was the face that haunted him most; surrounded by a nimbus of fire, hair blazing like straw, the dead flesh melting away and sloughing off its skull to reveal the gleam of bone beneath.

 

 

 

 

So if you’re familiar with my Is Craster a Casterly thread and how the stonemen are connected to Casterly Rock (hence the Others’ interest in Craster/Casterly as the Others and the stonemen seem related ~somehow~), then you’ll know where I’m going with the following. MAJOR crackpot bomb alert for the Joff and the Purple Wedding:

Did ya notice:

· Joff was very thirsty at his wedding reception.

· The pie was cut by an Old God-lookin’ sword which Ilyn very likely received from Tywin as he was the one who confiscated Ice. The Others are linked to water magic as are the stonemen being tied to the Rhoyne. Note the dragonglass. Runes are associated with the Royces, CotF, etc. It's glyphs which are linked to Valyria.

Ser Ilyn bowed before the king and queen, reached back over his shoulder, and drew forth six feet of ornate silver bright with runes. He knelt to offer the huge blade to Joffrey, hilt first; points of red fire winked from ruby eyes on the pommel, a chunk of dragonglass carved in the shape of a grinning skull. ASOS Tyrion VIII

· Joff notes that the pie crust is dry when we had a whole chapter of descriptions of great food. Sorta weird that that the cooks knocked 77 courses out of the park but screwed up a simple pie crust which is as important as a wedding cake IRL. I think Joff is dry here, not the crust.

"My uncle hasn't eaten his pigeon pie." Holding the chalice one-handed, Joff jammed his other into Tyrion's pie. "It's ill luck not to eat the pie," he scolded as he filled his mouth with hot spiced pigeon. "See, it's good." Spitting out flakes of crust, he coughed and helped himself to another fistful. "Dry, though. Needs washing down." Joff took a swallow of wine and coughed again, more violently. "I want to see, kof, see you ride that, kof kof, pig, Uncle. I want . . ." His words broke up in a fit of coughing.  ASOS Tyrion VIII

· Reeds are often mentioned in connection with the Rhoyne both literally and though the implied connection to the Reeds of the Neck. Notice the Reed/Neck/throat thing going on below. A bit odd that we would get a description of Joff trying to suck a river (Rhoyne?) through a reed when it was air that he needed.


Ser Garlan shoved Tyrion aside and began to pound Joffrey on the back. Ser Osmund Kettleblack ripped open the king's collar. A fearful high thin sound emerged from the boy's throat, the sound of a man trying to suck a river through a reed; then it stopped, and that was more terrible still. ASOS Tyrion VIII
 

· A different voice was calling, "Water, give him some water!" The High Septon began to pray loudly. Grand Maester Pycelle shouted for someone to help him back to his chambers, to fetch his potions. Joffrey began to claw at his throat, his nails tearing bloody gouges in the flesh. Beneath the skin, the muscles stood out hard as stone.  ASOS Tyrion VIII (Nails tearing gouges in the flesh and the stone throat recalls Stoneheart who is very Shrouded Lord-like.

· Renly’s empty armor was mentioned often during the Purple Wedding. How sure are we that Joff’s body was in the armor that was laid out for viewing?

· We have the same suffocation, throat and dryness issues here that we see with Jon’s, Dany’s and Tyrion’s interactions with the wights, undying and stonemen. Did something happen to Joff that was connected to the stonemen?

Before anyone brings up poisoned wine in that well-worn discussion, I believe that the wine was poisoned. Additional things happening along side the poisoned wine are not mutually exclusive so please put down your swords. 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, shameeka said:

ASOIAF version of leprosy stigma. The disfigured look and lack of treatment led them to be isolated from society. They're people who are very sick and famished, but circumstances made them become monsters. An insight of how medieval era dealt with epidemic without proper medical knowledge.

Except unlike lepers, these guys are actually walking dispensers for a contagious disease.

[Dorian Martell's son]

17 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

At the very least the op is not:

what if the stone men were... the WWs, or Daario, or Euron, or, worst ever, secret Targs, every last one of them!

True, but boring post is still boring. but if dario, euron and benjen are everyone else, the are all a least some stonemen  

[Seams]

16 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I think the wights, the stonemen and the undying are all connected though I can’t say exactly how. There are other similarities which I won’t go into here, but all are marked by the lack of water and dryness.

...

So if you’re familiar with my Is Craster a Casterly thread and how the stonemen are connected to Casterly Rock (hence the Others’ interest in Craster/Casterly as the Others and the stonemen seem related ~somehow~), then you’ll know where I’m going with the following. MAJOR crackpot bomb alert for the Joff and the Purple Wedding:

Did ya notice:

· Joff was very thirsty at his wedding reception.

I love this. Oddly enough, I think this "thirst connection" helps to make a connection to the followers of the Drowned God, too. Joffrey pours a cup of wine over Tyrion's head and Tyrion thanks him for the honor. This is similar to Uncle Aeron pouring seawater on Theon after he returns from his years in the green lands. (It's also similar to the wolf maid pouring wine on her pup brother in Meera's story, but that takes us off on another tangent.) Theon is not crazy about the renewed baptism by Aeron, but he tolerates it because he believes it will help him to become king some day.

Obviously, it's an irony if followers of the Drowned God are thirsty - or is it? Seawater isn't potable. Joffrey apparently eats the pie and drinks the undrinkable wine (instead of drowning in it, as followers of the Drowned God might prefer and as Tyrion has just experienced). Maybe this also ties into Maester Cressen and Melisandre's differing experiences with the same glass of wine. There's definitely a motif around "undead" characters, and the thirst (and hunger?) may be major clues.

Thinking now about Theon Stark, the Hungry Wolf, who is introduced to us as one of the "stone men" in the Winterfell crypt . . . .

Which brings me to my next point and back to the OP.

I believe the stone men are echoes of dead Starks. Or, at least, one of the dead Starks:

Ned Stark's leg is broken when his horse falls on him during an attack by Jaime and his crew. Ned never recovers.

He saw them cut the legs from Jory's mount. . . . When Ned's horse lurched back to its feet, he tried to rise, only to fall again, choking on his scream. He could see the splintered bone poking through his calf. It was the last thing he saw for a time The rain came down and down and down. (AGoT, Eddard IX)

A stone man, once a Summer Islander, seems to be aiming for fAegon / Young Griff as he jumps from the ruins of Chroyane in the Sorrows onto the boat the Shy Maid. The man may soon drown in the river Rhoyne.

The leap had shattered one of his legs, and a jagged piece of pale bone jutted out through the rotted cloth of his breeches and the grey meat beneath. The broken bone was speckled with brown blood, but still he lurched forward, reaching for Young Griff. His hand was grey and stiff, but blood oozed between his knuckles as he tried to close his fingers to grasp The boy stood staring, as still as if he too were made of stone. . . . (ADwD, Tryion V)

We will need to examine the Bridge of Dream and the Shrouded Lord to get better insights into the stone men. I believe the "time loop" experienced by the Shy Maid - passing the Bridge of Dream and then unexpectedly passing the same bridge a second time - is actually caused by an oxbow in the river. So the river flow, the dream, the stone that is alive, the attack on a young Targ, the Shrouded Lord title that is passed down from the original to generations of successors - these are metaphors within a larger theme; GRRM's games with rebirth and the repetition of historical events and the nature of time.

[Dorian Martell's son]

17 hours ago, Mordred said:

Shireen and Connington will spread the disease.  Stone Men versus Snow Men.  

Shireen is not contagious 

 

[Sensenmenn]

1 minute ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Shireen is not contagious 

 

Her grayscale sleeps who knows when it might wake up. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

Just now, Sensenmenn said:

Her grayscale sleeps who knows when it might wake up. 

It doesn't wake. That is wildling woo. The maesters have studied it. Otherwise, the entirety of dragonstone would be infected  

[Sensenmenn]

Just now, Dorian Martell's son said:

It doesn't wake. That is wildling woo. The maesters have studied it. Otherwise, the entirety of dragonstone would be infected  

It's a magical plague the maesters don't know anything but how to temporarily subdue it. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 minute ago, Sensenmenn said:

It's a magical plague the maesters don't know anything but how to temporarily subdue it. 

Then why has it not spread all over the island where shireen lives?

[Sensenmenn]

Did you not read any of my comments? 

Its asleep! 

The answer to your question is its asleep. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 minute ago, Sensenmenn said:

Did you not read any of my comments? 

Its asleep! 

The answer to your question is its asleep. 

And where did you get that idea? Oh that's right, the very backwards wildlings, who don't even know how to forge iron. They know nothing. 

[Sensenmenn]

2 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

And where did you get that idea? Oh that's right, the very backwards wildlings, who don't even know how to forge iron. They know nothing. 

And your forgetting that the maesters are almost always wrong about magic and other old world mysterys. 

I'm more inclined to believe the wildlings on this issue than the maesters. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

8 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

And your forgetting that the maesters are almost always wrong about magic and other old world mysterys. 

I'm more inclined to believe the wildlings on this issue than the maesters. 

 It isn't an old world mystery. it is a studied disease 

[Sensenmenn]

Just now, Dorian Martell's son said:

 It isn't an old world mystery. it is a studied disease 

Again your not reading I said magic and old world mysterys and greyscale is a magical plage.

I think of greyscale like the morgal blade from LotR it can be slowed by herbs but can only be cured by magic but they will never be the same afterwards.