Claim is less important than power

[Mordred]

Aegon possessed no claim to the small kingdoms of Westeros.  The Hoares are ironborn and had no claim to the Riverlands.  The Starks had no claim to sea dragon point.  Renly had a claim but behind his brother.  Joffrey and the Lannisters have no claim.  Nothing stopped these people from ruling or trying to rule.  Could it be that claim means little and it is a matter of military power?  I now believe it is.

We have debated claims among ourselves but the people in the text may have a better grasp of what it means.  Prince Viserys knew he needed an army to take back his kingdom.  He was not fool enough to believe he can show up and the Baratheons would step aside for his superior claim.  Power is more important.  Someone with enough power can dispense with claims.  Visenya, Aegon, and Rhaenys did something like that.  

The High Sparrow has the most power in Westeros now if we accept the idea behind the riddle from Varys.  The people put this man in power.  He was chosen by the largest demographic, the working class.  The working class support the ruling class.  The Lannisters remain in power despite the opinion of the lowborn masses.  Their ability to hold on to that power is tenuous if someone comes along who can win the people over.  

[argonak]

18 hours ago, Mordred said:

Aegon possessed no claim to the small kingdoms of Westeros.  The Hoares are ironborn and had no claim to the Riverlands.  The Starks had no claim to sea dragon point.  Renly had a claim but behind his brother.  Joffrey and the Lannisters have no claim.  Nothing stopped these people from ruling or trying to rule.  Could it be that claim means little and it is a matter of military power?  I now believe it is.

We have debated claims among ourselves but the people in the text may have a better grasp of what it means.  Prince Viserys knew he needed an army to take back his kingdom.  He was not fool enough to believe he can show up and the Baratheons would step aside for his superior claim.  Power is more important.  Someone with enough power can dispense with claims.  Visenya, Aegon, and Rhaenys did something like that.  

The High Sparrow has the most power in Westeros now if we accept the idea behind the riddle from Varys.  The people put this man in power.  He was chosen by the largest demographic, the working class.  The working class support the ruling class.  The Lannisters remain in power despite the opinion of the lowborn masses.  Their ability to hold on to that power is tenuous if someone comes along who can win the people over.  

Claim is more important than you might think.  Society is held together by people's beliefs.   If property rights, feality and all the trappings of society are ignored, everything falls apart.  Few men can rule through power alone, no king can be everywhere to enforce his will.  The dragons were the doomsday weapon of their day, but Aegon still respected the structure of society.   He simply short cutted himself to the top of an existing pyramid.  And in doing so he raised up new vassals who could be loyal, while also providing them a level of security and stability that they would not otherwise have been able to have.

Robert was able to upset the system because of a special situation, Aerys had alienated far too many of his vassals, and Robert still had to fight a bloody civil war.  But Robert also claimed descent from the Targeryns which gave him some legitimacy, and additionally was already one of the Lords Paramount.  Its a far different case from some hedge knight raising an army and marching on King's Landing.  Such a man would never be able to sleep easy in his bed for fear of rebellion.  Robert (as far as we know), only saw one major rebellion, and that was just the usual ironborn idiocy.  

The High Sparrow's power was previosuly built on sand.  The peasantry are the weakest estate in Westerosi society.  If Cersei wasn't trying to rule from one of Westeros's few urban centers, she'd have been able to largely ignore him.  For years the Kings essentialy controlled the High Septon's office with ease.  But due to their missmanagement, the faith fell into his hands.  The High Sparrow's position in King's Landing meant he could drum up riots for support if needed.  The Royal Family is extremely succeptible to this because they keep so few troops under arms and live inside a major city.  And then she was a complete idiot and permitted him to raise up a legal army.  

You can go look at European history and see how many peasant rebellions were historically successful.  The answer is pretty much zero.  The Lords always win in the end.  The profesional military caste can wipe out ten times its numbers of poorly equiped peasantry once it gets together.  Its only when they're caught unawares by large mobs without their vassals that royalty can be threatened by peasants.

[John Suburbs]

As a wise man once said: "Power resides where men believe it resides. No more, no less."

A claim is important if the realm thinks your claim is valid. Military strength is important when you want the realm to believe the gods have given you a new claim.

[Lord Varys]

Claim and military might complement each other - the more military power you have the stronger your claim appears, never mind how strong he actually is on paper. Vice versa, a strong claim can give you a lot of military support if people think you are their king/lord.

This is why Stannis is very dangerous to the Lannisters simply because he has the better claim. People have to turn a blind eye to that, they have to choose to believe them rather than Stannis to justify why they are supporting them.

The Seven Kingdoms are not a world where people follow the strongest guy or the guy with the largest sword. It is a world of hereditary rule. There are laws and customs regulating property rights, inheritance, and succession.

Aegon the Conqueror had to conquer Westeros - Prince Aegon now comes without dragons and birth certificate yet he might still have enormous success and gather a lot of support simply because he claims to be Rhaegar's son and because he looks like a Targaryen.

Such is the power of claims in this world. Or take 'Arya'. Ramsay married a fake Stark just because of the claim and the legitimacy she is going to lend to him.

[Legitimate_Bastard]

Seems like claim depends on location too. I feel like a 'King in the North' would have much more support from his sworn houses than a new 'Storm King' or 'River King'. Perhaps because of the culture of the Old Gods and the customs etc. that go with that.

[Hodor the Articulate]

It would be more accurate to say claim is power.