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New Elimination Game, #2: Best TV Show with a Female Lead

honeyed chicken

By honeyed chicken,
in Forum Games

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Buckwheat Council Member

Buckwheat

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lord Sidious said:

Heal Buffy

Hurt Jessica Jones

(I’m only being diplomatic and not hurting CXG because I know my friends from TTTNE like it so much, even though I don’t.....at all)

 

16 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Heal CXG

Hurt buffy

And mine:

Heal CXG

Hurt Buffy

 

1. Big Little Lies 20

 2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer 21

 3. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend 29

4. Jessica Jones 26

 5. Orphan Black 27

  6. Sharp Objects 27

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Annara Snow Council Member

Annara Snow

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lord Sidious said:

Helena, if you’re going to, my advice would be don’t bother with Buffy and watch Angel(it’s spin off) instead, it’s a superior show.

That said I can’t downvote a show which gave us such great characters as Angelus (that’s right go away boring human soul) Spike and Drusilla.

 

So 

That's an absolutely terrible piece of advice, because 1) so much in Angel doesn't even make sense if you haven't seen seasons 1-3 of Buffy first, plus there are crossovers, and 2) Buffy is the way, way superior show. 

Not to mention, Angel is one of the shows that's the worst for female characters, especially in its last two seasins.

And BTW  "Angelus" is not a separate character, it's just Angel (in fancy Latin). It's the same person. That's the whole point.

Anyway...

Heal Buffy

Hurt BLL

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Jen'ari Council Member

Jen'ari

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

That's an absolutely terrible piece of advice, because 1) so much in Angel doesn't even make sense if you haven't seen seasons 1-3 of Buffy first, plus there are crossovers, and 2) Buffy is the way, way superior show. 

Not to mention, Angel is one of the shows that's the worst for female characters, especially in its last two seasins.

And BTW  "Angelus" is not a separate character, it's just Angel (in fancy Latin). It's the same person. That's the whole point.

Anyway...

Heal Buffy

Hurt BLL

Angel is far superior to Buffy, it doesn’t have as many irritating characters like Xander it Dawn in it, plus the darker, more adult theme.

I’d also say it doesn’t struggle for strong female characters either-Cordelia,Darla, and my personal favourite as a fellow female lawyer-Lilah.

 

Angel and Angelus are pretty much considered two separate entities throughout both series, Angel being the vampire with his human soul restored, thus a guilt ridden, self hating force for good. Angelus being the unadulterated vampire with no human conscience at all, thus, sadistic, evil, ledgendary, and lets be honest, way more fun! :D.

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Annara Snow Council Member

Annara Snow

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Lord Sidious said:

Angel is far superior to Buffy, it doesn’t have as many irritating characters like Xander it Dawn in it, plus the darker, more adult theme.

I’d also say it doesn’t struggle for strong female characters either-Cordelia,Darla, and my personal favourite as a fellow female lawyer-Lilah.

 

Angel and Angelus are pretty much considered two separate entities throughout both series, Angel being the vampire with his human soul restored, thus a guilt ridden, self hating force for good. Angelus being the unadulterated vampire with no human conscience at all, thus, sadistic, evil, ledgendary, and lets be honest, way more fun! :D.

No. They are never considered two entities - except maybe in the mess that was Angel season 4. It makes zero sense to consider Angel's souled and soulless version two entities, both for the mythology and the story itself. In fact, the entire premise of Angel as a story of redemption would fall apart (what would he have to feel guilty about?),  his story would fall apart, his relationships with Darla, Spike and Drusilla would make no sense, not to mention that Darla's, Spike's and Dru's and every other vampire's story wouldn't make sense either. There can't be different rules for Angel and for all other vampires.

IMO "Angelus is a separate entity" is a fanon people came up with because they were uncomfortable with the idea of Angel having so much darkness inside that gets unleashed when he has no conscience (soul), and it made them feel more comfortable with shipping Bangel. But Angel - and everyone else - having darkness inside that comes out when they get turned into soulless vampires is the whole point of it.

Buffy has just as many dark and adult themes as Angel, especially as the characters become adults, but better humor, episodes that are bolder and more experimental in fornat, much more interesting treatment of gender roles, and better structured seasons. Plus Angel season 4 is terrible. Characters are a matter of taste. Personally I was never that attached to the supporting cast of Angel, except Darla.

Yeah, Angel had a few good female characters (I love Darla), but what it ended up doing with most of them was...really bad.

But I think that maybe we have been spoiling both shows for people here too much already. :unsure:

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RhaenysBee Council Member

RhaenysBee

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

 

Heal Buffy

Hurt BLL

 

2 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

 

Heal BLL

hurt buffy

 

1 minute ago, Annara Snow said:

Heal Buffy

Hurt BLL

Heal BLL

hurt buffy 

Essentially nothing happened: 

 

1. Big Little Lies 20

  2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer 21

 3. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend 29

4. Jessica Jones 26

  5. Orphan Black 27

  6. Sharp Objects 27

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RhaenysBee Council Member

RhaenysBee

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Annara Snow said:

I find Spike hotter, too. Not that Angel isn't hot.

Both of them are very interesting and complex characters. 

I didn’t stick around long enough to find out about that. I never managed to stick around for any vampire themed show, I don’t know why... I like a lot of things, but I guess vampires Just do nothing for me...? 

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Jen'ari Council Member

Jen'ari

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Annara Snow said:

No. They are never considered two entities - except maybe in the mess that was Angel season 4. It makes zero sense to consider Angel's souled and soulless version two entities, both for the mythology and the story itself. In fact, the entire premise of Angel as a story of redemption would fall apart (what would he have to feel guilty about?),  his story would fall apart, his relationships with Darla, Spike and Drusilla would make no sense, not to mention that Darla's, Spike's and Dru's and every other vampire's story wouldn't make sense either. There can't be different rules for Angel and for all other vampires.

IMO "Angelus is a separate entity" is a fanon people came up with because they were uncomfortable with the idea of Angel having so much darkness inside that gets unleashed when he has no conscience (soul), and it made them feel more comfortable with shipping Bangel. But Angel - and everyone else - having darkness inside that comes out when they get turned into soulless vampires is the whole point of it.

Buffy has just as many dark and adult themes as Angel, especially as the characters become adults, but better humor, episodes that are bolder and more experimental in fornat, much more interesting treatment of gender roles, and better structured seasons. Plus Angel season 4 is terrible. Characters are a matter of taste. Personally I was never that attached to the supporting cast of Angel, except Darla.

Yeah, Angel had a few good female characters (I love Darla), but what it ended up doing with most of them was...really bad.

But I think that maybe we have been spoiling both shows for people here too much already. :unsure:

It’s not really been a comfort thing for me, I actually quite like dark characters(unsurprisingly :P) that’s just the way I’ve always felt it was portrayed when I watched both shows, if someone’s soul is what makes them human then of course their personalities completely change if they don’t have one.

This is a concept specific to Buffy/Angel as far as vampire themed shows go, as in others-True Blood etc, they don’t lose their humanity when they’re changed, but some actively do over time and some don’t, which in some ways is actually more scary than being a soulless demon the second you were changed.

I agree we have spoiled things a bit too much.

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Jen'ari Council Member

Jen'ari

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

I didn’t stick around long enough to find out about that. I never managed to stick around for any vampire themed show, I don’t know why... I like a lot of things, but I guess vampires Just do nothing for me...? 

I don’t know, being eternally young with superpowers wouldn’t be so bad, think I’d still prefer to be ruling galaxies and wielding the force though :P.

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Annara Snow Council Member

Annara Snow

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Hurt buffy

heal cxg 

 

5 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

Heal CXG

Hurt Buffy

 

2 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

Heal Buffy

Hurt BLL

 

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Heal Sharp Objects

Hurt Orphan Black

Heal Buffy

Hurt BLL

 

1. Big Little Lies 18 (-)

  2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer 21 (-2+2)

 3. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend 29 (+2)

4. Jessica Jones 26

  5. Orphan Black 26 (-)

  6. Sharp Objects 28 (+)

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