Football: Sarri state of affairs

[AncalagonTheBlack]

I bet Maureen will throw Luke Shaw under the bus post-match.

[Consigliere]

I hope we sack Mourinho sooner rather than later. This season is starting to shape up like Chelsea 2015/2016. Changing formation with wholesale changes to the backline wasn't a very smart move, especially playing Herrera in a back three - a player who has never played in defence in his entire career.

Bailly and Lindelof didn't have a great outing last week but it was a poor showing all round by us and they didn't deserve to be dropped. Mourinho has a few favourites who he refrains from criticising but is ready to chuck everyone else under the bus which creates divisions in the dressing room. This is already well underway at United and will only get worse the longer he stays.

[Jordan La Cabra]

4 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

I hope we sack Mourinho sooner rather than later. This season is starting to shape up like Chelsea 2015/2016. Changing formation with wholesale changes to the backline wasn't a very smart move, especially playing Herrera in a back three - a player who has never played in defence in his entire career.

Bailly and Lindelof didn't have a great outing last week but it was a poor showing all round by us and they didn't deserve to be dropped. Mourinho has a few favourites who he refrains from criticising but is ready to chuck everyone else under the bus which creates divisions in the dressing room. This is already well underway at United and will only get worse the longer he stays.

Mourinho was quite complimentary of the team in his post match interview. He even managed to single out Shaw for his efforts. 

I thought Man United played well tonight, especially in the first half hour. Their desire to stay in the game even when a few goals down was good to see. But despite putting out what was probably their best performance this season, they still lost 3-0 at home against a team that struggle to win at Old Trafford.

United have some good players, but they have no clear best shape or XI. Their line up and formation tonight was so random it was hard to work out what formation they were going to go for prior to kick off. And, looking at individuals, they probably have the weakest defence in the top 6. 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

15 minutes ago, Jordan La Cabra said:

United have some good players, but they have no clear best shape or XI. Their line up and formation tonight was so random it was hard to work out what formation they were going to go for prior to kick off. And, looking at individuals, they probably have the weakest defence in the top 6. 

 

If only they had a manager who were allowed to spend crazy money for the past 3 seasons to get a clear best shape and starting XI.

[Consigliere]

22 minutes ago, Jordan La Cabra said:

Mourinho was quite complimentary of the team in his post match interview. He even managed to single out Shaw for his efforts. 

He also did what he does best i.e. deflect blame away from himself - "From a strategic point of view we didn't lose, the tactical point of view we didn't lose, but we lost". And of course he had to bring up how awesome he was in the past. You know, more premier league titles than the other 19 managers combined.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Jordan La Cabra said:

United have some good players, but they have no clear best shape or XI. Their line up and formation tonight was so random it was hard to work out what formation they were going to go for prior to kick off. And, looking at individuals, they probably have the weakest defence in the top 6. 

He's into his 3rd season with €400m invested and he has failed to get the team playing consistently as a cohesive unit and, as a manager, not know your best XI going into a 3rd season means you have failed at your job. I don't think our defence is that weak. Both Bailly and Lindelof are good players but Mourinho has barely played them together and his treatment of both players surely doesn't fill them with any confidence. 

[polishgenius]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

10 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

But, but, but he has won more League Titles at Chelsea than 20 EPL Managers at their current clubs combined.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Chelsea is off to a nice start, but yesterday's game was a snooze fest until the final 20 minutes or so.

[Philokles]

Mourinho deserves as much respect for his three titles as he gave specialist in failure Arsene Wenger for his three.

[Iskaral Pust]

Fortunately for Utd they have Burnley next, who have been exhausted by their EL games and have another one on Thursday evening to try to rescue their EL campaign.   The fixture list is being kind to them there.  I just wish we could play Utd next.  It would be a great time to pile on the misery.

Trumpinho's press conference was about what you would expect.  Especially after he made such a big point of undermining all his CBs tonight to show that it's all Woodward's fault rather than his.

[Raja]

Mourinho is an idiot, but he's got nothing on Trump. 'Trumpinho' is something I can do without. 

[Iskaral Pust]

As entertaining as it is to watch Utd flounder, it’s less than a year since Liverpool lost 5-1 to City and then 4-0 to Spurs a few weeks later.  And the press claimed Klopp was in danger of losing his job.  Rubbish.  A year before that Pep was  learning the PL the hard way.  The crisis label jumps from one team to the next like musical chairs.  It sells plenty of newspapers. 

[Rorshach]

14 hours ago, ljkeane said:

It's a little odd he hasn't been involved so far for Everton, he's one of the better youth prospects they've had for years and he went to the Bundesliga and scored 5 goals in 11 games, you'd think they'd definitely want to give him game time to convince him to stay. Unless he's spat his dummy over wanting a move I suppose.

Think it's a combination here. 

Lookman was rumoured to be unhappy last year, before he went on loan. Wasn't too surprised - he wasn't getting game time, and the team was imploding. Plus, he fit Samuele's teams (at least) like the word "integrity" fits Trump (yeah, f*ck Samuele. Still.). 

Then he goes to Germany, and succeeds. I reckon I'd be happy (if that was me) to continue there. However, both Brands and Silva have spoken highly of him, and clearly want to keep him, so - given he has a contract - he has to stay. But now he has different competition - Richarlison and Bernard, plus Walcott. Difficult. 

Add in that we've played more minutes with 10 men than 11 away so far, and the fact that he's really not the best defender we have in midfield, and I can understand why he hasn't gotten a chance yet. But I can also understand that he wishes to return to where he was succeeding. 

[mormont]

6 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

As entertaining as it is to watch Utd flounder, it’s less than a year since Liverpool lost 5-1 to City and then 4-0 to Spurs a few weeks later.  And the press claimed Klopp was in danger of losing his job.  Rubbish.  A year before that Pep was  learning the PL the hard way.  The crisis label jumps from one team to the next like musical chairs.  It sells plenty of newspapers. 

Well, I didn't see the match so feel free to ignore every word I say. But...

Mourinho is entering his third season with Manchester United, whereas Klopp last year was in his second and Pep at the time was in his first. Moreover, those two suffered defeats that were seen at the time as a consequence of the way they were trying to get their teams to play. For all Mourinho's talk of winning on 'strategy', I have no idea what his team strategy actually is, and nobody else really seems to know either. And last night, the team omitted the two central defenders Mourinho has signed for big money, indicating that Mourinho has no faith in the players he's brought in to address the problems. 

Mourinho, in other words, despite having had time and money to spend, appears to have little idea how to turn the team around. That qualifies the last couple of weeks as a genuine crisis for the club IMO. 

[Daemon the Leaner]

6 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

As entertaining as it is to watch Utd flounder, it’s less than a year since Liverpool lost 5-1 to City and then 4-0 to Spurs a few weeks later.  And the press claimed Klopp was in danger of losing his job.  Rubbish.  A year before that Pep was  learning the PL the hard way.  The crisis label jumps from one team to the next like musical chairs.  It sells plenty of newspapers. 

I fear yesterday's defeat is gonna have more impact on Utd mood that, say, your 5-0 defeat with 10 men at City had.

Not only did we lost by a 3 goals margin at home, but our players actually shew good behaviors and a fine tactical shape overall.

Individual defensive mistakes cost us.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

6 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

As entertaining as it is to watch Utd flounder, it’s less than a year since Liverpool lost 5-1 to City and then 4-0 to Spurs a few weeks later.  And the press claimed Klopp was in danger of losing his job.  Rubbish.  A year before that Pep was  learning the PL the hard way.  The crisis label jumps from one team to the next like musical chairs.  It sells plenty of newspapers. 

But with Liverpool under Klopp there was at least a feeling that the team is overall progressing since he took over. Well, the Spurs game was probably the worst game of his tenure, there, however scousers were not preparing their torches and pitchforks to gather at the town square. While Mourinho's United doesn't seem to have progressed footballing wise. I really can't say they're playing better or more entertaining than under van Gaal. Add to that Mourinho's constant whining and his ego almost twice the size of United.

Guardiola was like you said in his rookie season, and also there you could see or sense a direction he intended to take to City. They didn't get it on the pitch consistently, but something was there at least. 

5 hours ago, Rorshach said:

Then he goes to Germany, and succeeds. I reckon I'd be happy (if that was me) to continue there. However, both Brands and Silva have spoken highly of him, and clearly want to keep him, so - given he has a contract - he has to stay. But now he has different competition - Richarlison and Bernard, plus Walcott. Difficult. 

 

Last thing I heard was they were still apart in fees. Leipzig is offering something in the range of 20m+ €, Everton's latest demand was around 30m €. And that's apparently a price Leipzig can't match this year, because of FFP (lol). So I wouldn't rule out that transfer happening with an initial fee of around 20m + add-ons next year.

[Consigliere]

7 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

As entertaining as it is to watch Utd flounder, it’s less than a year since Liverpool lost 5-1 to City and then 4-0 to Spurs a few weeks later.  And the press claimed Klopp was in danger of losing his job.  Rubbish.  A year before that Pep was  learning the PL the hard way.  The crisis label jumps from one team to the next like musical chairs.  It sells plenty of newspapers. 

The big difference though is that you could see progression under Klopp and Guardiola. Poch, Klopp and Guardiola have improved practically every player in their squads. The opposite is true for Mourinho. De Gea and Matic have managed to maintain their previous levels under him, Lingard has improved but every other player is struggling. Even Lukaku had a better scoring rate at Everton and he has started this season poorly which has been a trend under Mourinho - some players start off brightly only for there to be a steady regression.

 

 

This might be too cynical from me but given this is Mourinho we are talking about, it wouldn't surprise me if he deliberately sabotaged our defensive setup to make a point (see, I told you I needed a CB!). Both Valencia and Herrera missed most of preseason through injury and were not involved at all in the previous two games although Herrera was an unused sub against Brighton. Matic underwent surgery after the WC and only returned to training less than a week ago. Yet Mourinho chose to drop the two CBs he signed and play three players who are not fully fit in key defensive roles and one of them completely out of position. For a manager known for his defensive organisation, his defensive setup was shockingly poor (suspiciously so). 

It's also unfortunate to see so many United fans falling for his con job. He did the same thing at Chelsea - while some were calling for him to be sacked, plenty were rushing to his defence blaming the players, the board and the media. The same is now happening at United. It would be one thing if it were just a few players struggling but when practically the entire squad is struggling then clearly the manager is to blame. Mourinho is the master of deflecting blame away from himself and there appears to be plenty of gullible folks out there who fall for it hook, line and sinker.

[mormont]

5 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

He did the same thing at Chelsea - while some were calling for him to be sacked, plenty were rushing to his defence blaming the players, the board and the media.

Evergreen.

https://cdn.caughtoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Chelsea-rats-banner-1.jpg

[Jordan La Cabra]

42 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

It's also unfortunate to see so many United fans falling for his con job. He did the same thing at Chelsea - while some were calling for him to be sacked, plenty were rushing to his defence blaming the players, the board and the media. The same is now happening at United. It would be one thing if it were just a few players struggling but when practically the entire squad is struggling then clearly the manager is to blame. Mourinho is the master of deflecting blame away from himself and there appears to be plenty of gullible folks out there who fall for it hook, line and sinker.

I think it is easy to see why a lot of Chelsea fans sided with Mourinho against the players, the board and the media during the 15/16 season. Unlike at Man United, where he has had very limited success compared to their targets, at Chelsea, he was (and still is) the most successful manager in the club's history. Chelsea fans fawned over him during his two spells at the club, so many were always going to be against the sacking of the club's greatest ever manager. At Chelsea, he had a hero-status. Even after he left the first time, Chelsea fans still adored him. That only increased when he came back and won more in his second spell. Remember, he had only just won his third title at the club in the season before he was sacked. His status amongst Man United fans in his third season at the club is very different to what his status was amongst Chelsea fans, going into his 7th season as Chelsea manager. 

[Rorshach]

2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Last thing I heard was they were still apart in fees. Leipzig is offering something in the range of 20m+ €, Everton's latest demand was around 30m €. And that's apparently a price Leipzig can't match this year, because of FFP (lol). So I wouldn't rule out that transfer happening with an initial fee of around 20m + add-ons next year.

Certainly possible. 

That gives him a year, at least, to show Silva that he should be a part of this team, or, alternately, Silva a year to show Lookman that he really should stick around. 

I'd like him to stay, as I think he can be really good, and Walcott, while scoring, doesn't look convincing so far.