Alternate Varys theories ?

[Stormking902]

I think everyone on this forum has heard the theory that Varys is a blackfyre decedent which IMO is correct, but are there other non crack pot theories out there that some readers truly believe?. 

[Euron Lannister]

its notreally a theory, more a non-believe:

i don't think varys or aegon are blackfyres.

but i like the idea, that Varys is aery's bastard [brother]

[Stormking902]

2 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

its notreally a theory, more a non-believe:

i don't think varys or aegon are blackfyres.

but i like the idea, that Varys is aery's bastard

Varys and Aerys are to close in age to be father and son BUT they could be brothers perhaps?. 

[Euron Lannister]

19 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Varys and Aerys are to close in age to be father and son BUT they could be brothers perhaps?. 

right, i always think of aerys much older than he actually was.

[bent branch]

I believe that Varys is trying to bring the PTWP prophecy into reality.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

52 minutes ago, bent branch said:

I believe that Varys is trying to bring the PTWP prophecy into reality.

What's your thought process on this, if you don't mind me asking because I see it as the opposite.

If he wanted something to do with the PtwP, I think he would have worked with Rhaegar. Instead he seems to have undermined him. And he hates magic after what was done to him. A different take on this would be interesting.

[Lollygag]

Illyrio is Gerion Lannister (nothing about Illyrio is inconsistent with Gerion).  Varys met him in KL, not in Essos as children. But this may not change the general consensus about Varys' goals. 

 

Gerion would have to calculate when to play and when to jape which means that Gerion was in fact playing the game, but only when he felt he had a good chance.

AFFC Jaime V

Gerion made japes. Better to mock the game than to play and lose.

 

Gerion was in KL trying to win Robert’s favor but miscalculated.

ASOS Tyrion IV

"The steel was sufficient for two blades, not three. If you have need of a dagger, take one from the armory. Robert left a hundred when he died. Gerion gave him a gilded dagger with an ivory grip and a sapphire pommel for a wedding gift, and half the envoys who came to court tried to curry favor by presenting His Grace with jewel-encrusted knives and silver inlay swords."

 

Illyrio forgets the story and Tyrion has to correct him. Illyrio quickly changes the subject.

ADWD Tyrion II

"How is it that the Spider became so dear to you?"

"We were young together, two green boys in Pentos."

"Varys came from Myr."

"So he did. I met him not long after he arrived, one step ahead of the slavers. By day he slept in the sewers, by night he prowled the rooftops like a cat. I was near as poor, a bravo in soiled silks, living by my blade. Perhaps you chanced to glimpse the statue by my pool? Pytho Malanon carved that when I was six-and-ten. A lovely thing, though now I weep to see it."

 

[Euron III Greyjoy]

He could be a Brightflame descendant. We know that Aerion spent some time in Lys, and that its possible he fathered some children there. Varys was born in Lys, so he might be Aerion's great-grandson or something. 

This would explain why the sorcerer bought Varys, so he could use his Targaryen blood for magic. 

[Vaedys Targaryen]

I once brought up the theory that Varys isn't actally a eunuch; eunuchs are famous for having highpitched voices and that can easily be faked, as we see in Game of Thrones:

Quote

The mummer's boy with the big ears was a born liar with a hundred different voices, and he did not tell his tales so much as live them, playing all the parts as needed, a king one moment and a swineherd the next. When he turned into an alehouse girl or a virgin princess, he used a high falsetto voice that reduced them all to tears of helpless laughter, and his eunuchs were always eerily accurate caricatures of Ser Alliser. Jon took as much pleasure from Pyp's antics as anyone …

aGoT

Jon IV

Pyp is a pretty good mummer and "lives his tales", which makes me almost believe that GRRM may indirectly be telling us that Varys is lying (Pyp is even desrcibed as a "mummer's boy").

Eunuchs are also pretty famous for being much taller than their non-castrated peers, but Varys isn't described as such.

[John Suburbs]

7 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

I think everyone on this forum has heard the theory that Varys is a blackfyre decedent which IMO is correct, but are there other non crack pot theories out there that some readers truly believe?. 

I doubt that Varys is even a eunuch. Check out these exchanges with Tyrion:

Quote

Varys did not look like himself. A scarred face and a stubble of dark beard showed under his spiked steel cap...

snip

Even his walk is different, Tyrion observed.

snip

"He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion."

"Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard's hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear." The eunuch's laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty.

Then later:

Quote

"My lord, you once asked me how it was that I was cut."

"I recall," said Tyrion. "You did not want to talk of it."

"Nor do I, but..." This pause was longer than the one before, and when Varys spoke again his voice was different somehow

My suspicion is that like Rugen, the gaolor, as well as the begging brother and the fine lady, Varys the Eunuch is just another character that he can slip on and slip off, like the master mummer that he is.

[Ser Leftwich]

Could be exactly what he says he is.

[Lady Isis]

5 hours ago, EloImFizzy said:

He could be a Brightflame descendant. We know that Aerion spent some time in Lys, and that its possible he fathered some children there. Varys was born in Lys, so he might be Aerion's great-grandson or something. 

This would explain why the sorcerer bought Varys, so he could use his Targaryen blood for magic. 

I also think he is Brightflames descendant for those exact same reasons as well.

[Kandrax]

Melisandre's son.

[chrisdaw]

There is no need of a theory, Varys answers for his motivation. He spent his childhood in a world of slavery and injustice, he went to the 7K because it at least aspired to be a better world. He did his duty by serving Aerys faithfully even though it was hard because Aerys was eventually evil. Varys just did his job, he is a servant not a lord, it is for the lords to depose a bad king, trust the system. And for Varys' loyal service the realm ended up bleeding in Robert's Rebellion. Ok thinks Varys, that's the system, that's what it takes to depose a bad king. Only then Robert did not punish Tywin for ordering the death of the children, and so for all the bloodshed the realm got naught. In Robert's decision Varys saw a realm not just without justice, but a realm that didn't even aspire to justice.

As a result Varys had an epiphany. The system could not be trusted, he had to take an active guiding hand, unlike just serving faithfully as he always had until then. The problem is simply the kings. Good king, everything can work out, the realm won't bleed, bad king and things get fucked.

So, as his ambitious friend Illyrio has a purple eyed son who Varys could very well pass off as Aegon, and shape and mould from birth into his image of the perfect king, that's exactly what he does, with the intention of sitting him on the IT.

One problem, among a few others, is he's had to take Illyrio's word (given he has work to do in 7K and can't watch over Aegon himself) for Aegon's progress and nature. The word of a proud father who doesn't really care for the 7K and so that his rule will be fair and just. And accordingly Aegon is not really the perfect king in the making, he's alright, but a bit of a shithead. 

[Lollygag]

I agree with @Vaedys Targaryen and @John Suburbs that there's something fishy about Varys' claims of being a eunuch. 

Adding:

AGOT Eddard VII

"Who are you?" Ned asked.

"A friend," the cowled man said in a strange, low voice. "We must speak alone, Lord Stark."

Curiosity was stronger than caution. "Harwin, leave us," he commanded. Not until they were alone behind closed doors did his visitor draw back his cowl.

"Lord Varys?" Ned said in astonishment.

 

 

Men's deeper voices come from lengthening vocal cords at puberty. A well-trained actor has some control over their voice, but they can't change the actual structure of their vocal cords. So for me, Varys is not an eunuch or he became one after puberty in contrast to his story. 

 

Also, Varys apologizes to Kevan when killing him like a Sorrowful Man of Qarth and he sheds tears like a Qartheen. Varys' story about becoming an eunuch sounds like something the Pyat Pree set might do. The blue flames and voice kinda make me think of the Undying. Maybe he's Quartheen or just spent some time there. 

ACOK Tyrion X

"One day at Myr, a certain man came to our folly. After the performance, he made an offer for me that my master found too tempting to refuse. I was in terror. I feared the man meant to use me as I had heard men used small boys, but in truth the only part of me he had need of was my manhood. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

 

 

Also heard some ideas from somewhere that Varys is working with the Maesters because of a mutual hatred of magic. Varys' history as he claims puts him there to make the connection. 

ACOK Tyrion X

"Nor do I, but . . ." This pause was longer than the one before, and when Varys spoke again his voice was different somehow. "I was an orphan boy apprenticed to a traveling folly. Our master owned a fat little cog and we sailed up and down the narrow sea performing in all the Free Cities and from time to time in Oldtown and King's Landing.

 Adding: I don't know what to think of this but I don't know what to think about Varys in general when it comes to magic. Illyrio calls him a wizard which would seem to be an out-of-line thing given Varys' story. And if Varys is so anti-magic, why is he supporting the magical Targs who are tied to dragons, pyromancy and whatever other woo-woo stuff they used to try to bring the dragons back, especially at Summerhall? He means to end Stannis for his involvement in R'llor's magic, but the Targs are cool???? 

 

[Megorova]

My alternative Varys theory, is that he is son of Jenny of Oldstones and one of Blackfyres, and that his maternal grandmother is Rohanne Webber, the Red Widow, that's why Varys is a Spider.

I think, that the Ghost of High Heart is Rohanne Webber-Lannister, the Red Widow. And that Jenny of Oldstones was daughter of Rohanne and Gerold Lannister. Rohanne gave birth to her last Lannister son in 229, and dissapeared in 230, less than 12 months after birth of that child. It's possible, that when she left, she was pregnant again, and later that same year (230) gave birth to Jenny.

Duncan Targaryen has met Jenny in 239, when he was 14-19 years old. If my theory is correct, then Jenny at that time was 9 years old. The age difference between them, those 5-10 years, is the reason, why there's no information about their children. That's because their marriage wasn't consummated for many years after their wedding. That's also the reason (non consummation) why the Small Council and Aegon V demanded from Duncan to cast his wife aside.

Duncan has madly fallen in love with Jenny, because her mother Rohanne, really was a witch, and the rumours about her (from The Sworn Sword novel) were true. Rohanne is a user of blood magic, and she sacrificed her first four husbands, and her first two children to Gods, and those deities gave her the power of foresign, in exchange for those blood sacrifices. Later, when Jenny was already an adult, she and Duncan still didn't had children, because when Jenny was becoming pregnant, Rohanne sacrificed her unborn granchildren. Which made her even more powerfull, because those children were of dragonblood.

Maybe there also a reason why Rohanne didn't wanted Jenny to give birth to a living child. Could be, that she saw in her visions, that Jenny's child, born from dragonseed, will be a monster. So she tried to prevent birth of that monster, thinking that the father of it will be Duncan. Though she misinterpreted whatever she saw in her prophetic visions, because the father of that monster became one of Blackfyres.

I think, that during burning of Summerhall, Jenny was kidnapped by Blackfyres, they brought her to Essos, where later that same year she gave birth to Varys. He is a Spider, because his maternal grandmother is the Red Widow. And his father is an unknown yet Blackfyre. The Tragedy at Summerhall happened in 259, so now (in 300) Varys is 40-41 years old, 4-5 years older, than Ned Stark, at the time of his execution.

Steffon Baratheon died in 278, after that Varys became part of Aerys' court. At that time he was 18-19 years old (that's if my theory is correct). What is known about Varys' past, is that he became already a prominent figure in Essos, when he was still a teenager. The statue of a young bravo in Illyrio's garden, is of a boy aged 16. For sculptor to make that statue of 16-years old Illyrio, he needed to have a model, from whom the statue was made (<- not sure, whether I phrased this part corretly ). Which means, that by the time Illyrio was 16, he was already rich enough to make statue of himself, and a place where to put that statue. The one who has helped Illyrio to become from poor bravo to a rich and influential man, was Varys. So they have met, years before Illyrio turned 16. And when Varys was 18-19 and left Essos, to join Aerys' court, him and Illyrio have already established their control over Pentos, and Illyrio has married the maiden daughter of a cousin of the Prince of Pentos. Illyrio and Varys are close in age. 18-19 or even earlier is a proper age to marry, for someone who is rich, influential, young, and beautiful, like Illyrio was in his youth.

Thus my theory works within time frame of known events.