Marwyn's Patron?

[Bobity.]

 

Quote

“The last years of Aegon's reign were consumed by a search for ancient lore about the dragon breeding of Valyria, and it was said that Aegon commissioned journeys to places as far away as Asshai-by-the-Shadow with the hopes of finding texts and knowledge that had not been preserved in Westeros.” - The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V

If Aegon were to commission someone to travel to Asshai to seek dragon breeding knowledge, it would be reasonable that the person be a maester, and someone who would be able to handle the journey. My guess is a young maester Marwyn.

Quote

“When Marwyn had returned to Oldtown, after spending eight years in the east mapping distant lands, searching for lost books, and studying with warlocks and shadowbinders” - A Feast for Crows - Prologue

The tragedy of Summerhall was in 259, I suggest that commissioned journeys to be between 255-259 of Aegon’s “last years”.  Just after Summerhall was the War of the Nine Penny Kings in 260 where a young Ser Barristan Selmy slew Maelys at the Stepstones.  In my opinion both Barristan and Marwyn are within the same aging generation, Marwyn has white hair coming from his ears and their are many descriptions of an aging Barristan.  Even without knowing Marwyn’s age, I still believe the timing fits.

If true then Marwyn would be the foremost living expert on dragons, having had patronage of a King to pursue its study.  A patronage and credibility that unfortunately died with Summerhall.  He likely would have been at, and died, within the Summerhall courtyard considering his focus of study.  But an 8 year journey would have placed him still abroad if Aegon had commissioned the journey in his “last years”.  Being a scholar of dragons and the East, his decisive departure from Oldtown to seek Daenerys to advise her fits as well.

If true, it would also connect a direct line between Marwyn and the Dunk and Egg narrative, a live character crossover which Aemon previously bridged.

Thoughts?
 

[Jeeves]

I am just not sure he is that old.  Rhaegar would be forty or so at the time of ADWD.  That would put Marwyn in his sixties.  Aegon would not send a raw maester with zero experience.  He would at least have forged a few links to make him suitable to seek lost knowledge.  King Aerys is more likely.

[Damon_Tor]

13 hours ago, The First Bloodrider said:

Aegon would not send a raw maester with zero experience.  He would at least have forged a few links to make him suitable to seek lost knowledge.  King Aerys is more likely.

There's no reason to believe that Marwyn was in Essos alone. Perhaps whoever held the Rod and Mask of Valyrian steel before Marwyn had gone himself and taken a young Marwyn along with him for assistance.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

Advise Dany.  More like try to convince her to come to Westeros.  Dany has goals of her own to help the slaves.  Quentyn, Marwyn, and Quaithe want her help.  

Marwyn is a resourceful guy.  Does he need a patron?  It looks like an academic on an expedition to me.  Maybe he had family money and had access to funds of his own.

[Megorova]

My theory:

Egg has sent Shiera Seastar to Asshai. She's the one, who has brought to Targaryens information about the ritual, thru which they were going to bring back dragons. Shiera was an expert in magic, so it was reasonable to send her. A maester wouldn't know, what to look for.

Then sometime in Rhaegar's lifespan (between Tragedy at Summerhall and Robert's Rebellion) Shiera has returned to Asshai, and was staying there, at least until 291.

Maester Marwyn was one of Rhaegar's teachers. Thru Rhaegar he had access to private archives of Targaryens. That's where he managed to read three pages out of the book of prophecies, writen by Daenys the Dreamer. Based on that information, same as Rhaegar, he has thought, that Rhaegar is the Prince that was promised. When maesters said to Rhaegar, after Aegon's birth, that Elia is unable to bear children, among those maesters was Marwyn. He was maester at Dragonstone, while Rhaegar was living there with his family. During Robert's Rebellion, when Rhaegar and Lyanna realised, that she is pregnant, Rhaegar had to leave her at the Tower of Joy (he has named that tower like that, because that's where they were, when they found out, about her pregnancy; they were traveling from Starfall to King's Landing; Jon Snow was conceived at Starfall on Christmas Eve). When Rhaegar has returned to KL, he has sent maester Marwyn to assist Lyanna during childbirth. Lyanna was unable to naturally give birth to her child, because, according to Ned, she was "a child-woman", and according to Theon's dream, she was "slim of frame". So Marwyn had to operate Lyanna, and make cesarean section. That's why Lyanna has died in bed of blood.  

After Rhaegar died, Marwyn went to Asshai to look any information about the prophecy, to find out the identity of the promised Prince, if it's not Rhaegar, then who else could it be. That's where he has met Quaithe (Shiera Seastar's new identity). In Asshai he has learned magic from Shiera, including how to use glass candles.

In Dany's fevered dream, the kings with swords of pale fire, and in Aeron's Damphair's second dream, caused by drinking evening's shade, the shadow woman with pale white fire in her hands, in both visions it was Shiera's "shadow", that came there using glass candle. Shiera was helping Dany, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego. And maester Marwyn was also there. In her delusional state, Dany saw Shiera as Viserys, and also as stars, that were whispering and smiling. She saw her as stars, because Quaithe's mask is made of starlight. Actually it is made of wierwood, and painted with Bloodraven's blood, to strengthen connection between Shiera and Old Gods. Shiera is Bloodraven's Moon, and he is her Sun and Stars, that's why Quaithe's weirwood mask, painted with Bloodraven's blood, appeared to Dany, as if though it was made of starlight - she saw Bloodraven's spirit in that mask, the Sun is gone and only Stars are left (Sun is gone because Bloodraven, the sun, has hiden in the cave of night - this is from Jon's dream, in his first chapter of ADWD). And Marwyn Dany saw first as Drogo, and then as Jorah. It was Marwyn's "shadow" who was warming his hands above burning blazier, and it was also him, who has said then, that Rhaegar was the last dragon.

One of Quaithe's/Shiera's other disciples was Mirri Maz Duur. And maybe also Euron Greyjoy, that's why he calls himself Crow's Eye, because Shiera is the three-eyed crow (Surprise! ). Marwyn went to Asshai in 283, and was there for 8 years, and has returned to Westeros in 291. He was staying in Asshai, as long as Quaithe was also there. When Marwyn's magic "education" has ended, Quaithe went to Qarth. Or maybe she was staying in Asshai until 297, when Euron has arrived there. They have met either in Asshai or already in Qarth.

At least some parts of my tinfoil theory are correct, particularly about Shiera/Quaithe assisting Dany during Rhaego's birth, and using glass candle.

[SFDanny]

To the question raised in the OP by @Bobity., many of us over the years I've been here have speculated on Marwyn being either the maester at Dragonstone while Rhaegar was the Prince of Dragonstone, and/or being at the Tower of Joy as a maester to help with Jon's birth. This is the first post I remember to suggest Marwyn would be involved as far back as Summerhall. Not sure I buy a maester that young playing such a prominent role in Summerhall, but still it is something to consider. I very much believe there is a connection between Marwyn and Rhaegar that we don't yet know about. I have argued for a departure to Essos and on to Asshai in 283, much as @Megorova does above. If Marwyn was at the Tower, then he needs to disappear for a good while as Varys spies and agents backtrack Ned's story.

[AlaskanSandman]

On 8/25/2018 at 1:39 PM, Bobity. said:

 

 

If Aegon were to commission someone to travel to Asshai to seek dragon breeding knowledge, it would be reasonable that the person be a maester, and someone who would be able to handle the journey. My guess is a young maester Marwyn.

The tragedy of Summerhall was in 259, I suggest that commissioned journeys to be between 255-259 of Aegon’s “last years”.  Just after Summerhall was the War of the Nine Penny Kings in 260 where a young Ser Barristan Selmy slew Maelys at the Stepstones.  In my opinion both Barristan and Marwyn are within the same aging generation, Marwyn has white hair coming from his ears and their are many descriptions of an aging Barristan.  Even without knowing Marwyn’s age, I still believe the timing fits.

If true then Marwyn would be the foremost living expert on dragons, having had patronage of a King to pursue its study.  A patronage and credibility that unfortunately died with Summerhall.  He likely would have been at, and died, within the Summerhall courtyard considering his focus of study.  But an 8 year journey would have placed him still abroad if Aegon had commissioned the journey in his “last years”.  Being a scholar of dragons and the East, his decisive departure from Oldtown to seek Daenerys to advise her fits as well.

If true, it would also connect a direct line between Marwyn and the Dunk and Egg narrative, a live character crossover which Aemon previously bridged.

Thoughts?
 

How old is Mirri? She had known contact with Marwyn in his time out East.

Interesting idea for sure. 

Another idea to consider is the duration of these Commissioned Journeys. Did they end with Aegon V? Aerys II was also obsessed with dragons and his father Jaehaerys II wed them on the word of a woods witch claiming their son would be the prince that was promised (Or vaguely enough like that, her wording is a lil more vague.) So i would imagine these kings would be equally as interested in keeping these journeys of knowledge going.

Edit- Mirri is around 40 when Daenerys meets her.

[Megorova]

On 8/27/2018 at 4:57 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Edit- Mirri is around 40 when Daenerys meets her.

She could have been as young as teenager, when she was studying in Asshai. She has learned there magic (probably from Quaithe) and western medicine from Marwyn. Obviously, that learning magic requires more time, than learning medicine (additional basis is what Melisandre thought about magic). So Mirri was living in Asshai much longer than Marwyn. We don't know exactly, how many out of those 8 eastern years, Marwyn has spent in Asshai, and how many years he was living at some other locations. Though, it's reasonable to assume, that out of those locations, Marwyn has spent the most of those 8 years in Asshai. That's becaue it seems, that the Shadow near Asshai, is the source from which first dragons has appered on Planetos, also it seems, that first Azor Ahai was also from Asshai, and Asshai is one of two hinges of the world (together with The Wall) - so it's the most interesting location in entire Essos. So if Marwyn was in Asshai, teaching Mirri, in 80's, then magic she was styding in 70's-early 80's. Thus in 70's, 30 years ago, Mirri was at least 12 years old, because children are not allowed to live in Asshai.

[AlaskanSandman]

On 8/28/2018 at 5:37 AM, Megorova said:

She could have been as young as teenager, when she was studying in Asshai. She has learned there magic (probably from Quaithe) and western medicine from Marwyn. Obviously, that learning magic requires more time, than learning medicine (additional basis is what Melisandre thought about magic). So Mirri was living in Asshai much longer than Marwyn. We don't know exactly, how many out of those 8 eastern years, Marwyn has spent in Asshai, and how many years he was living at some other locations. Though, it's reasonable to assume, that out of those locations, Marwyn has spent the most of those 8 years in Asshai. That's becaue it seems, that the Shadow near Asshai, is the source from which first dragons has appered on Planetos, also it seems, that first Azor Ahai was also from Asshai, and Asshai is one of two hinges of the world (together with The Wall) - so it's the most interesting location in entire Essos. So if Marwyn was in Asshai, teaching Mirri, in 80's, then magic she was styding in 70's-early 80's. Thus in 70's, 30 years ago, Mirri was at least 12 years old, because children are not allowed to live in Asshai.

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