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Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn

Did Renly plan to make Stannis his heir?

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  • Renly was incapable of producing heir with his queen.
  • Stannis would prove that Lannister-Baratheons are bastards which strengthens Renly's claim to the throne.
  • Stannis as heir would stay loyal to Renly's cause.
  • There would be no need to take Dragonstone from Stannis.

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Renly would have named Stannis as his heir until he had a child with Margaery. 

Just because he's into men it doesn't mean he's incapable of having sex with a woman. At the time he probably just felt uncomfortable having sex with Margaery, but once he sat the Iron Throne he would have had more time to relax and get into the mood. 

There is no way naming him as his heir would have made Stannis loyal to him. Remember the quote said about him:

 "Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends."

Stannis saw the throne as his right, which it was, since he is older than Renly, and Robert's children were really Jaime's bastards. There is no way in the seven hells he would've submitted to Renly. 

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1 hour ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:
  • Renly was incapable of producing heir with his queen.

I don't remember any indications of that. As The Sunland Lord just said, gay people are perfectly capable of procreation. Even if he was unable to father children, he would be more likely to legitimise Edric Storm. 

1 hour ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:
  • Stannis would prove that Lannister-Baratheons are bastards which strengthens Renly's claim to the throne.

Actually that strenghtens Stannis' claim to the throne. Even if Cersei's kids were proven to be bastards Renly would still be behind Stannis and probably Shireen aswell.

1 hour ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:
  • Stannis as heir would stay loyal to Renly's cause.

Nope. Stannis knew he was the heir. Stannis saw the throne as his duty and he was all about duty.

1 hour ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:
  • There would be no need to take Dragonstone from Stannis.

As long as Stannis was alive he would be a threat to Renly's position. He had to get rid of Stannis one way or the other. 

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I'm not so sure if Stannis was the heir or Edric Storm. There is nothing in the books we are aware of, but Edric seems a good alternative, as he was fostered by Renly at Storm's End. So I would not default on Stannis. 

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4 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Nope he planned to kill him as renly was an a-hole

Renly gave Stannis peace terms. Stannis sieged Storms End, unprovoked, and actually killed Renly. Stannis was the a-hole.

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3 hours ago, SirArthur said:

I'm not so sure if Stannis was the heir or Edric Storm. There is nothing in the books we are aware of, but Edric seems a good alternative, as he was fostered by Renly at Storm's End. So I would not default on Stannis. 

Edric Storm was fostered by Renly, but it seems he was raised by Ser Cortnay Penrose.  Renly ascended to the Small Council fairly young, and spent far more time at court than at Storm's End.

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6 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Renly gave Stannis peace terms. Stannis sieged Storms End, unprovoked, and actually killed Renly. Stannis was the a-hole.

He did...terms he knew hes never  accept ,stannis also gave renly terms too

He didnt siege it unprovoked renly had declared himself king despite knowing stannis stance and that he had no right to the throne but sheer might...shit renly for all we know didnt even believe the incest stuff 

Stannis killed renly before renly killed him,nothing wrong with that

So yes again renly is the a-hole,he wants to be king just because he thinks hed be awesome at it and his grasping tyrell buddies give him the strength to do so ! Hes pretty much one of the worst characters in the books given a pr facelift by the shows writers as they liked him and hated stan the man!

stannis by contrast repeatedly moans he doesnt want the crown but it is his duty to claim it as its his by rights and as he says to davos he feels the current king a product of incest whos family killed his brother and 2 other good men so hes got to bring justice.

Edited by hodorisfaclessman

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3 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

He did...terms he knew hes never  accept ,stannis also gave renly terms too

He didnt siege it unprovoked renly had declared himself king despite knowing stannis stance and that he had no right to the throne but sheer might...shit renly for all we know didnt even believe the incest stuff 

Stannis killed renly before renly killed him,nothing wrong with that

So yes again renly is the a-hole,he wants to be king just because he thinks hed be awesome at it and his grasping tyrell buddies give him the strength to do so ! Hes pretty much one of the worst characters in the books given a pr facelift by the shows writers as they liked him and hated stan the man!

stannis by contrast repeatedly moans he doesnt want the crown but it is his duty to claim it as its his by rights and as he says to davos he feels the current king a product of incest whos family killed his brother and 2 other good men so hes got to bring justice.

Stannis didn't attack SE because Renly crowned himself. He did it because Mel told him that would get him men for his army. Before that, he was incommunicado on Dragonstone, so nobody knew his stance on anything, let alone what he thought of Renly's claim. So yes, unprovoked.

If, by your logic, it was ok for Stannis to murder a defenceless Renly because Renly was trying to kill him, then you should also have no reason to call Renly an a-hole for trying to kill Stannis in battle. Again, Stannis besieged Storms End without warning - he was the aggressor and Renly was defending himself and his land.

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3 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

He did...terms he knew hes never  accept ,stannis also gave renly terms too

He was offering his brother Storm's End and the Stormlands in exchange for less than 5k soldiers. Of course Renly assumed his brother would accept when to any layman Stannis' had zero chance of winning the throne. 

There is no reason for Renly to enter into negotiation if he did not think Stannis would agree to it. 

3 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

He didnt siege it unprovoked

yeah, he did. Stannis had no authority in the Stormlands. 

3 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

So yes again renly is the a-hole,he wants to be king just because he thinks hed be awesome at it and his grasping tyrell buddies give him the strength to do so ! Hes pretty much one of the worst characters in the books given a pr facelift by the shows writers as they liked him and hated stan the man!

That is crazy considering the show turned an ambiguously gay character into a flamboyant homosexual who whined when he was cut while at the same time had  Stannis leading from the front in battle and giving (semi) inspirational speeches to his men before war. 

Stannis was pretty much the most popular character in season 2 and 3 among show watchers, this idea that the writers hated the character is clearly not shown through the non-book reading fandom. They even made him a more sympathetic father given there are no interactions with his daughter in the books.

 

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45 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

There is no reason for Renly to enter into negotiation if he did not think Stannis would agree to it. 

Hes an idiot? He was invited and wanted to save face?(like his battle plan) He was curious about Stannis' religion. Itd be the last time he saw his brother. He had a whole peach but no one to share it with. 

To think Renly thought Stannis would accept peace terms is ludicrous

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12 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Hes an idiot?

How does that dispute what I said? 

12 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

 

He was invited and wanted to save face?

How is offering to make Stannis one of the 7 most powerful men in the realm saving face? 

He was offering the Stormlands for less than 5k men, that is the opposite of saving face, it was an incredibly generous offer which anyone with a lick of sense would have accepted.

12 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

 

To think Renly thought Stannis would accept peace terms is ludicrous

 Assuming that Stannis would accept the offer is not the same as being convinced it was a 100% done deal and at no point did I make that claim. 

 

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1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

How does that dispute what I said? 

Not a dispute, a suggestion

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

How is offering to make Stannis one of the 7 most powerful men in the realm saving face? 

Showing up to Stannis' meeting was saving face, he had to say something

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

He was offering the Stormlands for less than 5k men, that is the opposite of saving face, it was an incredibly generous offer which anyone with a lick of sense would have accepted.

Stannis is sometimes senseless, very stubborn

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

Assuming that Stannis would accept the offer is not the same as being convinced it was a 100% done deal and at no point did I make that claim. 

Ok. To think that Renly assumed Stannis would accept peace is ludicrous

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18 hours ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:
  • Renly was incapable of producing heir with his queen.
  • Stannis would prove that Lannister-Baratheons are bastards which strengthens Renly's claim to the throne.
  • Stannis as heir would stay loyal to Renly's cause.
  • There would be no need to take Dragonstone from Stannis.

No, I doubt it. The bottom line is that making Stannis is heir is a slap to the face that Stannis would not accept. He sees himself as the rightful heir (which he is technically) and probably thinks Renly should be grateful to be considered his heir. Moreover, Renly's own biggest supporters, the Tyrells, would likely insist he father children on Margaery. After all, there's no reason why Renly wouldn't have tried to have a child with Margaery in order to secure his own blood line - and I think there is an indication is that he was trying - there's nothing to suggest that he was infertile or Margaery is either.

Edited by Faera

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Not a dispute, a suggestion

and not one that has any bearing on what I said. Renly's IQ has nothing to do with him believing that Stannis, who had whined for almost a decade about Storm's End. could not be swayed by Renly's generous offer. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Showing up to Stannis' meeting was saving face, he had to say something

No, he did not. Stannis had already attacked, he would be perfectly in his rights to attack. Given away Storm's End is not saving face. It is far too great a prize for the pitiful support Stannis could provide. 

 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Stannis is sometimes senseless, very stubborn

He's also not an idiot. 5k was not enough to win the crown. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Ok. To think that Renly assumed Stannis would accept peace is ludicrous

Stannis has a mystic telling him some foreign God supports him becoming King, Renly is not aware that his sensible brother is not only drinking the kool aid but there is some truth in it, Stannis has magic on his side. 

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8 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Stannis didn't attack SE because Renly crowned himself. He did it because Mel told him that would get him men for his army. Before that, he was incommunicado on Dragonstone, so nobody knew his stance on anything, let alone what he thought of Renly's claim. So yes, unprovoked.

If, by your logic, it was ok for Stannis to murder a defenceless Renly because Renly was trying to kill him, then you should also have no reason to call Renly an a-hole for trying to kill Stannis in battle. Again, Stannis besieged Storms End without warning - he was the aggressor and Renly was defending himself and his land.

Renly knew quite rightly what stannis stance was and would be and still wanted to be king

Renly is an a-hole he chose to claim the crown by force knowing too well he had no claim and that hed have to step over his brothers corpse first all because he thought hed be awesome at being a king

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28 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Renly knew quite rightly what stannis stance was and would be and still wanted to be king

Renly is an a-hole he chose to claim the crown by force knowing too well he had no claim and that hed have to step over his brothers corpse first all because he thought hed be awesome at being a king

That's not even remotely canon.

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