Craster: Sacrificing his sons to the WW

[Rufus Snow]

31 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

You have some very interesting ideas here. Though if it's a matriarchy, where is the head? It seems to me she would be the one answering for things, not Craster.

yeah, I've wondered about that - but then I also thought that many stud animals can be aggressive or highly strung. Then again it wouldn't be the first household where the guy only thought he was the one in charge

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Though i will throw out, that i've heard ideas that Craster's first was his mother, his second was his sister from his mother. Continuing and ensuring the incest.

Again, I'm pulling towards that too. Sort of like the mother caught the necessary 'input' from whichever passing Black Brother contributed his Y-chromosome, then all the rest were Craster's. Oedipus-plus...

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Though i think obviously speculation but interesting ideas by all. In a bee colony, the queen has many concubines. Craster is old too, how long were they hoping to continue this? What was going to happen when Craster died? Did they have a spare? Im definitely interested to hear more about this as you come to it.

I'm wondering if Craster's work is now done? Someone up thread suggested maybe the nineteen-ness extended to Craster's sons, too? It would be a neat tie-up, I guess. Then again, taking away little Monster (suggestive name, Val) may either break the pattern, or complete it. Perhaps he's the next colony seed, or maybe the females disperse to make new colonies, such as Gilly? I also need to check up on the women's names - are they all flower/plant names, like Gilly and Fern, or are these the only ones we know? And of course, the White Tree connection, assuming that's really where the mother came from... I think there might be something to wheedle out of that as well. Ah, so much to double-check

[AlaskanSandman]

10 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

yeah, I've wondered about that - but then I also thought that many stud animals can be aggressive or highly strung. Then again it wouldn't be the first household where the guy only thought he was the one in charge

Again, I'm pulling towards that too. Sort of like the mother caught the necessary 'input' from whichever passing Black Brother contributed his Y-chromosome, then all the rest were Craster's. Oedipus-plus...

I'm wondering if Craster's work is now done? Someone up thread suggested maybe the nineteen-ness extended to Craster's sons, too? It would be a neat tie-up, I guess. Then again, taking away little Monster (suggestive name, Val) may either break the pattern, or complete it. Perhaps he's the next colony seed, or maybe the females disperse to make new colonies, such as Gilly? I also need to check up on the women's names - are they all flower/plant names, like Gilly and Fern, or are these the only ones we know? And of course, the White Tree connection, assuming that's really where the mother came from... I think there might be something to wheedle out of that as well. Ah, so much to double-check

Well as far as his son's, always reminded me of the Grey King and his hundred sons. Idk any further relation than that but had to throw it out. 

And this is true in regards to Craster thinking he was in charge. We do have the Queen of Thorns after all. Though she never bedded Mace so far as we know. 

Monster being brought through the Black Gate always bothered me. By passing the magic of the wall and all. 

White Tree i think both hints towards Winterfell's original foundations and imo it's a hint to TKOTLT but im alone on that one hahah Craster has turned his back on the Tree though and gone away from it. Though i believe Mance still holds to the Old Gods. Idk, there is a Hall there and Tormund is said to be meed king of Ruddy Hall. I can't help but think there is more to White Tree but i can only speculate. 

Edit- Unless Mance and Craster are brothers and Craster represents the Grey King and Mance represents Durran God's Grief. I do think Durran and Grey King were likely brothers 

[Lady Barbrey]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

They all seemed tied to a blood betrayal. Take Daemon writing 13 in the tree before facing Aemon? Gael the Winter Child is if im right, a blood betrayal against Jaehaerys, Jon dies on his 13th pov chapter. Bran tell of the Night's King and 13 before being sacrificed through the Black Gate by Bloodraven. There is more you can draw from it too

Daemon writing 13 on a tree?  It sounds vaguely familiar but I can't place it.  Do you have a quote or the source You can direct me too?

[AlaskanSandman]

18 minutes ago, Lady Barbrey said:

Daemon writing 13 on a tree?  It sounds vaguely familiar but I can't place it.  Do you have a quote or the source You can direct me too?

Ill find it a little later but Daemon the Rogue prince carved 13 marks into the Weirwood at Harrenhal that bleed every year. While he was waiting to fight Aemon One Eye. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 10/10/2018 at 4:57 PM, Rufus Snow said:

On 10/10/2018 at 4:35 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

 

yeah, I've wondered about that - but then I also thought that many stud animals can be aggressive or highly strung. Then again it wouldn't be the first household where the guy only thought he was the one in charge

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Still doesn’t really explain why the others would pick Caster(an exceptionally violent) with their truly valuable females. He poses a threat to them as well because he has no problem throwing his weight around(he if enraged could probably seriously hurt or even kill one of his wives with a few smacks of his fist).  and leave it to him to be the only male around; like once he died, the females could have very easily been slaughtered before Craster’s sons showed up. It doesn’t just appear it’s only Craster’s who thinks he’s in charge-Gilly doesn’t make any reference to some sort matriarchal to which she truly obeys and fears.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

I wonder how the wives of Craster’s view each other; like what’s the social hierarchy there, and how they would see each other(mothers? Sisters?) 

[Lady Barbrey]

4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Still doesn’t really explain why the others would pick Caster(an exceptionally violent) with their truly valuable females. He poses a threat to them as well because he has no problem throwing his weight around(he if enraged could probably seriously hurt or even kill one of his wives with a few smacks of his fist).  and leave it to him to be the only male around; like once he died, the females could have very easily been slaughtered before Craster’s sons showed up. It doesn’t just appear it’s only Craster’s who thinks he’s in charge-Gilly doesn’t make any reference to some sort matriarchal to which she truly obeys and fears.

 

Yeah, we would have heard from Gilly if there were a matriarch in the house. Not that there might not be matriarchs in a sorceress or priestess role to the 'cold Gods' if that is a tradition Craster is following, but Craster's wives seem consigned to a breeder role.

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 10/10/2018 at 4:06 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

They all seemed tied to a blood betrayal. Take Daemon writing 13 in the tree before facing Aemon? Gael the Winter Child is if im right, a blood betrayal against Jaehaerys, Jon dies on his 13th pov chapter. Bran tell of the Night's King and 13 before being sacrificed through the Black Gate by Bloodraven. There is more you can draw from it too

I will not be surprised if in the next book, Daenerys deals with some form betrayal in her 13th chapter.

[AlaskanSandman]

15 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I will not be surprised if in the next book, Daenerys deals with some form betrayal in her 13th chapter.

If not her 13th pov, then the 13th chapter of the next book i will be watching for. 

Still trying to figure out Arya's in ASOS. She meet's Lem Lemon Cloak and gang. I can't remember the 13 one in AFFC, i think it's the Soiled Knight... don't quote me on that.