Rufus Snow Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Ok, this may well be total tinpot crack-foil, but it begins with a humourous comment from another poster in another thread. It left me with the question: is there anything in the text other than Varys' own words that can be used to either prove or disprove his status as a eunuch? More specifically, is it possible he is actually a woman and lying about his backstory? I don't recall, and haven't yet found, anything regarding this topic which doesn't end up back with 'because Varys said so.' What I'm looking for is any trace of independent corroboration that can entirely dispel this tinpot crack-foil. As far as I'm aware, no-one has ever seen Varys disrobed, or bedded him. There's no maester who claims to have treated him. To be clear, I'm looking for evidence in the texts. Is there something I've overlooked, or is this still a twist the George could possibly pull on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Such a twist is possible, I suppose... that said, I don't think it will happen. I've seen people proposing Varys is a woman before, and also that he is an intact man. It's all possible because as you say no one has seen him naked or witnessed when he was cut. Still... I find it unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Its been over 20 years since the first book came out, and over 7 years since the last. I feel like if there was any evidence in the texts it would've been found by now. Really there are two things you have to think about: Out of all the things Varys could lie about, why would he lie about being a eunuch? What would the twist of Varys not being a eunuch add to the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 25 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said: Out of all the things Varys could lie about, why would he lie about being a eunuch? What would the twist of Varys not being a eunuch add to the story? 1. Ask any ambitious woman what it's like getting ahead in a man's world - a eunuch is an easier disguise than a 'whole man' - it would explain lack of junk and 'moobs', for one thing. We wouldn't think of it today, because we're not used to having eunuchs around any more.... 2. Oh, I don't know, maybe 'Blackfyres extinct in the male line' sort of ramifications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Still... I find it unlikely. All the best twists are unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said: All the best twists are unlikely Unlikely but foreshadowed and seeded, or they're not twists but asspulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Unlikely but foreshadowed and seeded, or they're not twists but asspulls. Yeah, my next re-read will have to have this on the agenda... but sometimes the seed is the dog that didn't bark - a lack of evidence can be evidence itself. That's why I want textual proof, to rule it out for sure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirArthur Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, EloImFizzy said: Its been over 20 years since the first book came out, and over 7 years since the last. I feel like if there was any evidence in the texts it would've been found by now. Really there are two things you have to think about: Out of all the things Varys could lie about, why would he lie about being a eunuch? What would the twist of Varys not being a eunuch add to the story? Could the dubious and perfumed spymaster, the master in disguise, have a little identity secret ? Who, in the last 20 years, would have ever come up with such an idea ? Not that he has a Targaryen sounding name anyway. I tell you, it is that heat wave of 2018, suddenly people come up with stupid ideas. Disgusting. And which woman, in the name of the seven, would ever pose as a man in the story ? Woman should wear fine dresses and dance with noble princes. That Arya is just stupid. Can't even work her needles. Disgusting. And what would a female Blackfyre even add to the story ? And then from Lys ? This entire Lys subplot with Shiera Seastar, Tywin Lannister, Jon Connington, Lynesse Hightower ... the entire story is bullshit and how can a spymaster from Lys possibly be involved in all that. Disgusting. No, I teel you, the only proven thing in the world is that that baby at the tower of joy was baby king. Why else would the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard be there ? Even though Viserys was da king by wish of the last king. / end rant Seriously so, female Varys is one of my nightmares. You see, back in the day, GRRM traveled through europe and at least once he travelled with some german roleplaying game designers (similar to D&D) and they had a plot for over 10 real years where a female was disguising as a male emperor, because only males can do things. Much like in Westeros. It is my nightmare, because the story is goofy and silly. But a bad influence is very possible here and Varys just fits that type of hiding - mysterious, wearing wide cloth, (short)/no hair, perfume, a little chubby.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Trust me, guys. The man has no balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Trust me, guys. The man has no balls. But he's so ballsy! No real balls, lots of metaphorical ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 This is the kinkiest thread we’ve had in a while. Q: 2. Is Varys truly a eunuch, or is it just another of his many disguises? GRRM: Guess we won't know till someone takes a peek inside his breeches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Lance Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, EloImFizzy said: Its been over 20 years since the first book came out, and over 7 years since the last. I feel like if there was any evidence in the texts it would've been found by now. Really there are two things you have to think about: Out of all the things Varys could lie about, why would he lie about being a eunuch? What would the twist of Varys not being a eunuch add to the story? 1. Eunuchs are not threats as they are not men so cannot procreate and have heirs, so they don't hold lands or titles. They are also not women, so they cannot use their womanly charms to disarm or cause mischief in any way or even marry and have children. Posing as a eunuch is a perfect way to hide in plain sight (Varys doesn't do that at any other time in the books as a master of multiple disguises and even roles and jobs). 2. Varys could be part of a Blackfyre line (could be the mother or father of fAegon). Similar to Pycelle's possible feigned frailty, Varys uses his eunuchness to hide in plain sight and survive multiple ruling houses. Definitely plausible he is not a eunuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Varys MIGHT be able to. Though, he is quite untrustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Rufus Snow said: Ok, this may well be total tinpot crack-foil, but it begins with a humourous comment from another poster in another thread. It left me with the question: is there anything in the text other than Varys' own words that can be used to either prove or disprove his status as a eunuch? More specifically, is it possible he is actually a woman and lying about his backstory? I don't recall, and haven't yet found, anything regarding this topic which doesn't end up back with 'because Varys said so.' What I'm looking for is any trace of independent corroboration that can entirely dispel this tinpot crack-foil. As far as I'm aware, no-one has ever seen Varys disrobed, or bedded him. There's no maester who claims to have treated him. To be clear, I'm looking for evidence in the texts. Is there something I've overlooked, or is this still a twist the George could possibly pull on us? Indirect stuff but: why then Varys story about being cut, how could he transorm into a man credibly as Rugen and Illyrio treats him like a bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Lance Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: Unlikely but foreshadowed and seeded, or they're not twists but asspulls. Meh, it isn't as if GRRM hasn't used asspulls before, though I think he does do a good job at limiting them. It is hard to label something an asspull, especially some revelation theoretically revealed later, until the series is over. Not all of the foreshadowing for every reveal needs go back to the first book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, Valyrian Lance said: Meh, it isn't as if GRRM hasn't used asspulls before, though I think he does do a good job at limiting them. It is hard to label something an asspull, especially some revelation theoretically revealed later, until the series is over. Not all of the foreshadowing for every reveal needs go back to the first book. Like what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said: This is the kinkiest thread we’ve had in a while. Q: 2. Is Varys truly a eunuch, or is it just another of his many disguises? GRRM: Guess we won't know till someone takes a peek inside his breeches. Such an evasive answer from GRRM makes me suspect that perhaps he isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 If Varys didn't had prominent Adam's apple, people at royal court would have noticed it long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, teej6 said: Such an evasive answer from GRRM makes me suspect that perhaps he isn’t. Being evasive is classic Martin. He's a devious little . And it's true it could go either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, teej6 said: Such an evasive answer from GRRM makes me suspect that perhaps he isn’t. Martin is a tricksy bird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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