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Did Robert's Strength came from Storm Gods or Valyrian Gods side of the family?

Ellard Stark

By Ellard Stark,
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Ellard Stark

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3 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said:

Rhaegar wasn't much of a fighter in his youth, he only picked up a sword when he read a prophecy. Robert on the other hand is someone that has always enjoyed fighting, and has probably been training since he was young. 

but the GODS were on his when he picked up his War Hammer, but which Gods?!

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Ellard Stark

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51 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Robert had the typical Baratheon tall and muscled build. Rhaegar was a competent fighter but not elite like Robert, which is why he didn't make it through one dance when it was Hammer time. Aside from Maegor and Maekar most Targaryens seem to have leaner builds compared to Baratheons.

Orys Baratheon vs a young Durrandian (spelling)

 

Who would've won?

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Ralphis Baratheon Council Member

Ralphis Baratheon

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3 hours ago, Ellard Stark said:

Orys Baratheon vs a young Durrandian (spelling)

 

Who would've won?

Who knows, could go either way I guess. Orys Baratheon was Aegon's champion, so one would assume Orys was the best fighter Aegon had in his camp. Maybe Aegon's father, Aerion, purposely fathered a child on a women who came from a long line of great warriors so his son and daughters would have a strong and loyal protector and champion. Argilac Durrandon was a seasoned warrior who fought in and survived many wars and battles. So I'm sure he'd be a terror in his prime. Combine those two lines and you get warriors like the Laughing Storm and the Demon of the Trident.

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zandru Council Member

zandru

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20 hours ago, Ellard Stark said:

but the GODS were on his when he picked up his War Hammer, but which Gods?!

What "gods"? Why would you assume everything is controlled by invisible, supernatural powers? The question actually makes little sense.

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Lord Varys Council Member

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Robert may have been a little bit larger and broader than Rhaegar, but one assumes they were pretty similar aside from that.

Robert's war hammer is just a devastating weapon if he can use them at full strength.

As to the original question - it seems to me that a lot of the Baratheon characteristics go back to the Durrandon line but we don't know with a certainty.

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Damon_Tor Council Member

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On 9/1/2018 at 3:13 PM, Starkz said:

Rheager wasn’t much of a fighter from what I’ve picked up, he began fighting after he read a prophecy whereas Robert had always been quite the fighter. 

This is relevant. My understanding is that Rhaegar was nothing special on the battlefield. I think it was Barristan who says as much.

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Alexis-something-Rose Council Member

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On 9/4/2018 at 6:25 PM, Damon_Tor said:

This is relevant. My understanding is that Rhaegar was nothing special on the battlefield. I think it was Barristan who says as much.

Barristan called Rhaegar a "puissant warrior." 

Jorah Mormont said Rhaegar knew how to use a sword. And Archmaester What's His Face in the World Book, something that was written for Robert Baratheon, said that Rhaegar was not craven.

So this idea presented in the OP is pretty reductive of the character. A wimp? Really?

Yes, Rhaegar decided to become a warrior because of whatever he read in prophecy. I don't think he would have wanted to be a passable warrior. I think he would have wanted to be one of the best. Because at the end of the day, people in that universe will not follow someone who is intelligent, they will follow someone who can lead them into battle. We have a prime example of that in Victarion.

At the end of the day the Battle of the Trident came down to inches. Robert and Rhaegar were fighting for hours, which might mean they were on par as far as their fighting skills. Rhaegar wounded Robert, but Robert landed the mortal blow. The fight could have gone either way, I think. And the warhammer is devastating weapon. I mean we can use Barristan as points of comparison. Barristan was very badly wounded by arrow, spear and sword and managed to survive.  It took one blow to kill Rhaegar.

As far as strength goes, I would point out to Jon's freakish strength for someone his age when he is angry. He picked Alliser Thorne off the ground and essentially throttled him. There was his fight with Iron Emmett in the yard and there's the spear incident with Garth Greyfeather's head where he yanked it out from the ice just like that, but two men were shown to be having a hard time doing the same. So maybe it is something in the blood. 

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corbon Council Member

corbon

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On 9/5/2018 at 10:25 AM, Damon_Tor said:

This is relevant. My understanding is that Rhaegar was nothing special on the battlefield. I think it was Barristan who says as much.

I rather suspect that would be the rampant Rhaegar-hate that infects a high proportion of this forum, rather than an accurate reading of the text.

Yes, he lost to Robert at the Trident. But he was good enough to fight Robert one on one for a long fight and wound him badly enough to prevent Robert from advancing to KL after the battle. How many others could have done as much?
 

About the Trident:

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They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert's hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor.

Quote

 

"I won my crown there. How should I forget it?"
"You took a wound from Rhaegar," Ned reminded him. "So when the Targaryen host broke and ran, you gave the pursuit into my hands. 

 

Quote

The battle screamed about Lord Robert and Prince Rhaegar both, and by the will of the gods, or by chance—or perhaps by design—they met amidst the shallows of the ford. The two knights fought valiantly upon their destriers, according to all accounts. For despite his crimes, Prince Rhaegar was no coward. Lord Robert was wounded by the dragon prince in the combat, yet in the end, Baratheon's ferocious strength and his thirst to avenge the shame brought upon his stolen betrothed proved the greater.

 

At Harrenhal:

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Yet when the jousting began, the day belonged to Rhaegar Targaryen. The crown prince wore the armor he would die in: gleaming black plate with the three-headed dragon of his House wrought in rubies on the breast. A plume of scarlet silk streamed behind him when he rode, and it seemed no lance could touch him. Brandon fell to him, and Bronze Yohn Royce, and even the splendid Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning.

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Prince Rhaegar emerged as the ultimate victor at the end of the competition. The crown prince, who did not normally compete in tourneys, surprised all by donning his armor and defeating every foe he faced, including four knights of the Kingsguard. In the final tilt, he unhorsed Ser Barristan Selmy, generally regarded as the finest lance in all the Seven Kingdoms, to win the champion's laurels.

Generalisation:

Quote

 

"King," Dany corrected. "He was a king, though he never reigned. Viserys, the Third of His Name. But what do you mean?" His answer had not been one that she'd expected. "Ser Jorah named Rhaegar the last dragon once. He had to have been a peerless warrior to be called that, surely?"
"Your Grace," said Whitebeard, "the Prince of Dragonstone was a most puissant warrior, but . . ."

 

(FYI, puissant means skilled or mighty, not weak or cowardly).
 

Lord Stefans Tourney at Storms End :

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"He won some tourneys, surely," said Dany, disappointed.
"When he was young, His Grace rode brilliantly in a tourney at Storm's End, defeating Lord Steffon Baratheon, Lord Jason Mallister, the Red Viper of Dorne, and a mystery knight who proved to be the infamous Simon Toyne, chief of the kingswood outlaws. He broke twelve lances against Ser Arthur Dayne that day."
"No, Your Grace. That honor went to another knight of the Kingsguard, who unhorsed Prince Rhaegar in the final tilt."
Dany did not want to hear about Rhaegar being unhorsed. "But what tourneys did my brother win?"
"Your Grace." The old man hesitated. "He won the greatest tourney of them all."

 

 

From Cersei to Jaime (borne out by what Tourney records we have):

Quote

 

"He knows his duties, and there's no better lance—"
"You were better, before you lost your hand. Ser Barristan, when he was young. Arthur Dayne was better, and Prince Rhaegar was a match for even him. Do not prate at me about how fierce the Flower is. He's just a boy."

 

 

About Twyin's tourney:

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Seventeen and new to knighthood, Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ringmail when he cantered onto the lists. Long streamers of red and gold and orange silk had floated behind his helm, like flames. Two of her uncles fell before his lance, along with a dozen of her father's finest jousters, the flower of the west. 

Quote

There, seated on his throne amongst hundreds of notables in the shadow of Casterly Rock, the king cheered lustily as his son Prince Rhaegar, newly knighted, unhorsed both Tygett and Gerion Lannister, and even overcame the gallant Ser Barristan Selmy, before falling in the champion's tilt to the renowned Kingsguard knight Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning.

From TWoIaF (written for Robert remember, so not going to praise Rhaegar unnecessarily)

Quote

Though Prince Rhaegar at seventeen was everything that could be wanted in an heir apparent, all Westeros rejoiced to know that at last he had a brother, another Targaryen to secure the succession.

 

So, in summary:
 - Rhaegar was considered by Barristan to be a mighty warrior
 - although he lost to Robert at the Trident, they fought for a long time and Rhaegar wounded Robert seriously enough for Robert to hand Ned the pursuit while he healed
 - Rhaegar was considered, even by his enemies, to be everything that could be wanted in an heir
 - Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Arthur Dayne are considered two of the greatest warriors of their time. Rhaegar was right up there with them. Although he rarely competed in tourneys, we know of three tourneys he jousted in. He reached the final joust every time, winning one and losing once each to Barristan and Dayne. During those tourneys he beat the flower of the west, other notables including Bronze Yohn Royce, Oberyn Martell, Jon Connington, Ser Barristan Selmy twice and Ser Arthur Dayne at least once (and a 12 lance draw or win another time).
Jousting is not melee, but it is training for war and part of a warriors skills. 

Rhaegar was a very, very good warrior indeed. Robert was better one-on-one on the day.

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