Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

[Tucu]

5 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Neither the wildlings nor the Nights Watch knew Stannis was coming, which is why Val was so confused. Dalla is the one that said magic was a doubled edged sword without a hilt - there’s no safe way to grasp it, so even the ones working the magic can be harmed by it. That is why the wildings dismembered the dead at the Fist. They didn’t want any wights bringing up the rear.

Its possible Craster wasn’t afraid, because he knew Mance was creating the white shadows, and his “godly man” act was just for show.

I am going deeper into the rabbit hole here. The Old Gods probably knew Stannis was coming and decided not to warn the wildlings as a defeat was a better way to get them across the Wall; sacrificing some pieces for the long game plan.

[wolfmaid7]

Hi fellow Heretics,we still hanging in there.Am I hearing correctly Papa Crow halting for a bit?

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, wolfmaid7 said:

Hi fellow Heretics,we still hanging in there.Am I hearing correctly Papa Crow halting for a bit?

Hi Wolfmaid. We cannot confirm what BCs up to. All we know is that he hasn’t checked in since Sept 9th. We’re considering starting the next Heresy with a guest host. Are you interested?

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

I am going deeper into the rabbit hole here. The Old Gods probably knew Stannis was coming and decided not to warn the wildlings as a defeat was a better way to get them across the Wall; sacrificing some pieces for the long game plan.

Mance and the wildling leaders manufactured this threat as a way to convince the Watch to let them through. What they didn’t plan on was Jon Snow, so they had to improvise.

[Brad Stark]

14 hours ago, Tucu said:

Craster was not afraid of the WW or wights either and he seemed sure that the gods would help him survive the cold; he probably didn't know that he was really just a rabble piece in the big cyvasse game.

I disagree completely.  He seems terrified to me.  He simply chose compliance instead of running away.  

[St Daga]

I haven't visited the thread for a while, but I see that @Black Crow is MIA. Is there anyone who can contact him, just to make sure that things are okay? Perhaps he is just taking a break, but he strikes me as someone who would let someone know about his plans. I hope things are okay for him!

[Tucu]

8 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

I disagree completely.  He seems terrified to me.  He simply chose compliance instead of running away.  

This is what he says:

Quote

There had been no attacks while they had been at Craster's, neither wights nor Others. Nor would there be, Craster said. "A godly man got no cause to fear such. I said as much to that Mance Rayder once, when he come sniffing round. He never listened, no more'n you crows with your swords and your bloody fires. That won't help you none when the white cold comes. Only the gods will help you then. You best get right with the gods."

Wights and WWs are not a problem for him, the white cold is a problem but he trusted the gods.

He almost repeats his trust about receiving help with Winter just before he was killed:

Quote

Dirk speared a chunk of horsemeat. "Aye. So you admit you got a secret larder. How else to make it through a winter?"

"I'm a godly man . . ." Craster started.

 

[Tucu]

21 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Mance and the wildling leaders manufactured this threat as a way to convince the Watch to let them through. What they didn’t plan on was Jon Snow, so they had to improvise.

As I see it if the wildlings had full access to the wiernet they would have known about Stannis and could also keep an eye on the Stark warg with the white direwolf with red eyes.

I think they were surprised because they are high level pieces in the game, but not the player.

[Melifeather]

45 minutes ago, Tucu said:

As I see it if the wildlings had full access to the wiernet they would have known about Stannis and could also keep an eye on the Stark warg with the white direwolf with red eyes.

I think they were surprised because they are high level pieces in the game, but not the player.

I never suggested they had access to the weirnet. Why would they need that to create white shadows?

The Children, Bloodraven, and Bran are the only ones with access to the weirnet, although I do suspect Lord Beric was also using it to spy on Gregor Clegane's raiders. It will be interesting to see if Lady Stoneheart also uses the weirwood throne in the underground hideaway to look for Frey and Bolton troops.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, St Daga said:

I haven't visited the thread for a while, but I see that @Black Crow is MIA. Is there anyone who can contact him, just to make sure that things are okay? Perhaps he is just taking a break, but he strikes me as someone who would let someone know about his plans. I hope things are okay for him!

I think I might have an old email address for him...I'll look.

[Melifeather]

Good thing I never delete my PMs. I found an email from an exchange over two years ago...I'll let you know if he responds.

[Tucu]

42 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I never suggested they had access to the weirnet. Why would they need that to create white shadows?

The Children, Bloodraven, and Bran are the only ones with access to the weirnet, although I do suspect Lord Beric was also using it to spy on Gregor Clegane's raiders. It will be interesting to see if Lady Stoneheart also uses the weirwood throne in the underground hideaway to look for Frey and Bolton troops.

The weirnet part is mine; GRRM suggests that Ghost belong to the Old Gods and that Ghost and Val belong together.

Quote

Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre’s. He had a weirwood’s eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they’d found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow.

Quote

"Did you follow me as well?" Jon reached to shoo the bird away but ended up stroking its feathers. The raven cocked its eye at him. "Snow," it muttered, bobbing its head knowingly. Then Ghost emerged from between two trees, with Val beside him.

They look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings

 

[Brad Stark]

19 hours ago, Tucu said:

This is what he says:

Wights and WWs are not a problem for him, the white cold is a problem but he trusted the gods.

He almost repeats his trust about receiving help with Winter just before he was killed:

 

He isn't afraid of being attacked outright so long as he obeys his 'gods'.  Being a pious person does not mean you have no fear of God or gods, the opposite is usually the case, regardless of religion.  Craster is not serving his gods out of a sense of right or wrong or love, he believes he survives longer. 

[St Daga]

20 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

21 hours ago, St Daga said:

I haven't visited the thread for a while, but I see that @Black Crow is MIA. Is there anyone who can contact him, just to make sure that things are okay? Perhaps he is just taking a break, but he strikes me as someone who would let someone know about his plans. I hope things are okay for him!

I think I might have an old email address for him...I'll look.

 

19 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Good thing I never delete my PMs. I found an email from an exchange over two years ago...I'll let you know if he responds.

That's great @Feather Crystal. 

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, St Daga said:

 

That's great @Feather Crystal. 

No response yet.

[Tucu]

4 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

He isn't afraid of being attacked outright so long as he obeys his 'gods'.  Being a pious person does not mean you have no fear of God or gods, the opposite is usually the case, regardless of religion.  Craster is not serving his gods out of a sense of right or wrong or love, he believes he survives longer. 

I think he doesn't fear his gods; he makes sacrifices to get their assistance when the "white cold" comes.

We have several hints that cold is the enemy, not the Others. The deal Craster has is one of them. The Stark words and Bran's vision of the Heart of Winter is another

Quote

He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.
Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.
“Why?” Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling.
Because winter is coming.

Bran looked at the crow on his shoulder, and the crow looked back. It had three eyes, and the third eye was full of a terrible knowledge. Bran looked down. There was nothing below him now but snow and cold and death, a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him. They flew up at him like spears. He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points. He was desperately afraid.

No WW or wights, just snow, cold and death.

[LynnS]

23 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I think I might have an old email address for him...I'll look.

This is worriesome.  It's not usual, that's for sure.

[alienarea]

On 11/13/2018 at 11:16 PM, Feather Crystal said:

Neither the wildlings nor the Nights Watch knew Stannis was coming, which is why Val was so confused. Dalla is the one that said magic was a doubled edged sword without a hilt - there’s no safe way to grasp it, so even the ones working the magic can be harmed by it. That is why the wildings dismembered the dead at the Fist. They didn’t want any wights bringing up the rear.

Its possible Craster wasn’t afraid, because he knew Mance was creating the white shadows, and his “godly man” act was just for show.

The name Val is similar to Hel, isn't it? Maybe she is older than we think and the bride the Night's King fell for? Maybe she's the woman in the sacrifice that Bran views in WeirwoodVision.

GRRM has more female than male lead players, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a female behind the White Walkers as well.

[Brad Stark]

There is always a woman behind anything evil

[Brad Stark]

I don't think the White Cold is different from the Others.  We have the references to whether they bring the cold or the cold brings them.  The Others certainly aren't offering Craster warmth or protection from cold.  The white cold he referred to is his gods.