U.S. Politics: A Song Of Mimes And Musicians

[Zorral]

Fascist or not a fascist -- the politics of incivility builds the roads to so much else:

https://www.alternet.org/are-politics-incivility-paving-road-american-fascismhttps://www.alternet.org/are-politics-incivility-paving-road-american-fascism
 

Quote

 

. . . . There is no exact blueprint for fascism, though the ghosts of past fascist regimes haunt contemporary politics. As Adam Gopnik observes:

To call [Trump] a fascist of some variety is simply to use a historical label that fits. The arguments about whether he meets every point in some static fascism matrix show a misunderstanding of what that ideology involves. It is the essence of fascism to have no single fixed form –an attenuated form of nationalism in its basic nature, it naturally takes on the colors and practices of each nation it infects. In Italy, it is bombastic and neoclassical in form; in Spain, Catholic and religious; in Germany, violent and romantic. It took forms still crazier and more feverishly sinister, if one can imagine, in Romania, whereas under Oswald Mosley, in England, its manner was predictably paternalistic and aristocratic. It is no surprise that the American face of fascism would take on the forms of celebrity television and the casino greeter’s come-on, since that is as much our symbolic scene as nostalgic re-creations of Roman splendors once were Italy’s.

The undeniable truth is that Trump is the product of an authoritarian movement and ideology with fascist overtones. In responding to the question of whether or not he believes Trump is a fascist, historian Timothy Snyder told Salon's Chauncey DeVega that the real issue is not whether Trump is a literal model of other fascist leaders but whether his approach to governing and the new political order he is producing are fascistic. 

I don’t want to dodge your question about whether Trump is a fascist or not. As I see it, there are certainly elements of his approach which are fascistic. The straight-on confrontation with the truth is at the center of the fascist worldview. The attempt to undo the Enlightenment as a way to undo institutions, that is fascism. Whether he realizes it or not is a different question, but that’s what fascists did. They said, "Don’t worry about the facts, don’t worry about logic, think instead in terms of mystical unities and direct connections between the mystical leader and the people." That’s fascism. Whether we see it or not, whether we like it or not, whether we forget, that is fascism. Another thing that’s clearly fascist about Trump were the rallies. The way that he used the language, the blunt repetitions, the naming of the enemies, the physical removal of opponents from rallies, that was really, without exaggeration, just like the 1920s and the 1930s. And Mr. Bannon’s preoccupation with the 1930s and his kind of wishful reclamation of Italian and other fascists speaks for itself. . . .

 

 

[DMC]

19 hours ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Lol, all presidents, whether or not they served, are entitled to be buried at Arlington.

Trump is so arogant and so tone deaf it would not surprise me if he chose to be buried there.

Only two presidents are buried at Arlington.  I've seen William Howard Taft's, it's not impressive.  Trump will most certainly require something much more ostentatious.

18 hours ago, lokisnow said:

Don’t get your hopes up, the official democrat party position is that democrats shouldn’t even try to compete for this seat (or sixty other seats) which is why they refuse to try to win the Mississippi seats that are easier lifts than Alabama.

but regardless of the official “don’t win, don’t compete” motto of democrat leadership, the Russians will change or create enough votes to make sure ted wins the election by a margin a few thousand votes more  than the cutoff required to trigger an automatic recount.

Contrariwise, the race has actually gotten more interest - and early interest/money - from the party than should be anticipated.  O'Rourke and Cruz are almost identical in fundraising, which is an accomplishment in and of itself for a Dem running for statewide office in Texas, plus, Beto has fairly substantially more cash on hand. 

 

[Liver and Onions]

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

Fascist or not a fascist -- the politics of incivility builds the roads to so much else:

https://www.alternet.org/are-politics-incivility-paving-road-american-fascismhttps://www.alternet.org/are-politics-incivility-paving-road-american-fascism
 

 

This is an excellent reminder. 

[Martell Spy]

Parkland Survivor David Hogg Helps Raise Thousands for Anti-Ted Cruz Billboard Featuring Trump Tweet

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/david-hogg-helps-raise-thousands-for-anti-ted-cruz-billboard-featuring-trump-tweet.html

Quote

With the help of Parkland survivor David Hogg, activists in Texas managed to raise almost $10,000 to place an anti-Ted Cruz billboard in the state featuring President Donald Trump’s own words. The GoFundMe campaign organized by USA Latinx, a political group, raised far more than the $6,000 goal in less than 24 hours.

 

[ThinkerX]

22 hours ago, LongRider said:

She moved to . . . Arizona????!!!!?????  Good grief.  Who's keepin' an eye on Russian then, from her Alaskan front door???????

Apparently, you missed the last few Conservative Updates: Russia is our friend.  Their only US enemies are evil Libtards and those who refuse to acknowledge Putin/Trumps greatness.

 

[ThinkerX]

I feel little sympathy for the employers in question.  To my way of thinking, they hired foreign people in the first place because they were willing to work for less than US citizens. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/companies-say-trump-is-hurting-business-by-limiting-legal-immigration/ar-BBMNxEc?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnclassic

The government is denying more work visas, asking applicants to provide additional information and delaying approvals more frequently than just a year earlier. Hospitals, hotels, technology companies and other businesses say they are now struggling to fill jobs with the foreign workers they need.

[ThinkerX]

A modicum of good news, though I doubt much will come of it:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-grand-jury-will-investigate-whether-kris-kobach-intentionally-botched-voter-registration-in-2016/ar-BBMMnj1?ocid=msnclassic

 

The Kansas Supreme Court has ruled that a grand jury must be convened to investigate whether Secretary of State

Kris Kobach intentionally botched voter registration in the state in the 2016 elections. Kobach, the Republican candidate for Kansas governor in the upcoming 2018 midterms, is a key ally of President Donald Trump on voter fraud and headed the president’s since-disbanded election fraud commission.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I feel little sympathy for the employers in question.  To my way of thinking, they hired foreign people in the first place because they were willing to work for less than US citizens. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/companies-say-trump-is-hurting-business-by-limiting-legal-immigration/ar-BBMNxEc?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnclassic

 

 

For someone coming to the Unites States on a a TN or H1-B, they generally get paid the same as an American (I did).  I got hired because of my skills and experience, not because I'd be willing work for a discount.  For someone applying for an emplotyment-based green card, by law they have to be offered a competitive salary.

[The Anti-Targ]

3 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I feel little sympathy for the employers in question.  To my way of thinking, they hired foreign people in the first place because they were willing to work for less than US citizens. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/companies-say-trump-is-hurting-business-by-limiting-legal-immigration/ar-BBMNxEc?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnclassic

 

 

In theory it should only be the illegal immigrants who would be offered lower wages, because the illegals know they can't complain about it, and it the employer knows the illegal can't complain about it.

Legal immigrants should have the same employment law protections as US residents.

At least that's how legal employment of foreign workers should work. 

[Rippounet]

An interesting reflexion on the nature of greatness... and fascism I guess.

It struck a chord in me because Trup recently talked about America as "the greatest country on Earth."

https://eand.co/the-price-of-american-greatness-c04bf800d7dd

Quote

 

Great is a word that has many meanings, but they can be divided into two halves. Greatness as magnanimity, as overcoming, as a kind of giving — as standing beside. Or greatness as superiority, as outdoing, as a need for admiration — as standing above. Whether or not you think that America somehow made a transition from the first to the second, it should easy to observe that the second kind of greatness is what America has aspired to in recent decades. Call it the degeneration of greatness, if you like.

What happens a society is built upon that second kind of greatness, greatness as superiority? When that is the fundamental norm, value, code, which governs it? Well, if that nation must be the best, then the people in it must be the best, too. But that means they themselves have created a kind of paradox. They cannot all be the best. Some will just be average, ordinary people. Some will struggle and languish. But what will a society devoted to greatness think of them?

It will scorn, despise, and loathe them, won’t it? They will be punished. They will be seen as liabilities and burdens. Soon enough, a kind of ethical and moral perversion will happen. Because only the best are good enough, the ordinary are bad. And what is perfectly right and just is to punish and neglect and admonish them. So the meaning of the “best” when greatness is superiority is itself the ability to trample others, and be the last one left standing. The “best” ends up meaning ruthlessness, cunning, self-preservation, and egotism.

[...]

Hence, a society devoted to greatness as superiority, as America has been, becomes something like a great, mad, merciless, relentless contest. The norms and values of such a place become cruelty, greed, pride, envy. Only the exceptional are worthy of things like dignity, respect, worth, and meaning — the ordinary aren’t to have them. Therefore, society becomes a kind of game of people policing those things away from each other — finding reasons not to give them to, or see them in, people, and only grant them to the best, which means such a society operates on resentment, anger, and spite. You are not good enough yet! But that in turn means that a society will become a vicious and hurtful place. You don’t deserve to be treated with respect and dignity — only the best do! We’re here to be great!

 

 

[Martell Spy]

9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

In theory it should only be the illegal immigrants who would be offered lower wages, because the illegals know they can't complain about it, and it the employer knows the illegal can't complain about it.

Legal immigrants should have the same employment law protections as US residents.

At least that's how legal employment of foreign workers should work. 

With the exception of a few industries, minimum wage laws apply to everyone. They sometimes get around the laws, but with undocumented immigrants, not documented ones.

In the case of giving high-paying tech jobs to foreigners, no they do not do that to save money. They do it because they can't find enough natives with the experience and degrees that they want. It's an asshole thing, but corporations aren't there to boost native employment. They are much less likely to spend time and money training up a native, or hiring a lesser qualified native. The minimum wage laws aren't an issue at all, because we are talking about jobs way, way above minimum wage.

[Martell Spy]

4 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

An interesting reflexion on the nature of greatness... and fascism I guess.

It struck a chord in me because Trup recently talked about America as "the greatest country on Earth."

https://eand.co/the-price-of-american-greatness-c04bf800d7dd

 

Yes, one example is the weird, 2-tiered way American women are treated. There has been great changes with how the workplaces treats middle class and upper middle women in recent years. The same benefits haven't filtered down the ranks though to lower class women. Indeed, lower class women are routinely fired for the sin of getting pregnant. 

Not that this is legal, but employers do illegal things all the time in the U.S. Which is why wage theft is so common. It's just not always enforced and people don't always sue.

[Zorral]

15 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I feel little sympathy for the employers in question.  To my way of thinking, they hired foreign people in the first place because they were willing to work for less than US citizens. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/companies-say-trump-is-hurting-business-by-limiting-legal-immigration/ar-BBMNxEc?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnclassic

 

 

The two industries truly impacted, and that impact all of us, are the health care industry in all areas and venues,from home care to operating theaters and hospital cleaners, and the food industry, from planting and harvesting, to slaughtering and meat packing, to restaurant staffing.

[Morpheus]

A rundown investigations of a corrupt Trump cabinet member. No, not that one, the other one. The OTHER other one. No, That one is gone already! Rhymes with “stinky”.

https://www.citizensforethics.org/a-guide-to-the-14-federal-investigations-into-ryan-zinke/

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

As a rule, I believe in giving credit where credit is due, particularly when it comes from someone who is sincere but you generally disagree with.  It can be difficult, but that's the ideal.

I'd certainly have a lot of questions, but this is someone I could make common cause with.  Well said.

http://www.courant.com/opinion/insight/hc-op-insight-london-leaving-gop-20180827-story.html

 

[Morpheus]

Steve Bannon has been invited to speak at the New Yorker festival. More legitimizing of intellectually vapid white supremacy. Cue the sympathizers crying out “why shouldn’t he be allowed to speak,” because we all know Bannon has been so supressed in stirring up white nationalism at home and abroad.

[Zorral]

45 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Steve Bannon has been invited to speak at the New Yorker festival. More legitimizing of intellectually vapid white supremacy. Cue the sympathizers crying out “why shouldn’t he be allowed to speak,” because we all know Bannon has been so supressed in stirring up white nationalism at home and abroad.

Got sick to my stomach when I read that this morning.

[Zorral]

51 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

As a rule, I believe in giving credit where credit is due, particularly when it comes from someone who is sincere but you generally disagree with.  It can be difficult, but that's the ideal.

I'd certainly have a lot of questions, but this is someone I could make common cause with.  Well said.

http://www.courant.com/opinion/insight/hc-op-insight-london-leaving-gop-20180827-story.html

 

But he helped enable all the steps the rethugs took to end up with the orange nazi.  Maybe this is supposed to be a case of better too late than never.

[ThinkerX]

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

The two industries truly impacted, and that impact all of us, are the health care industry in all areas and venues,from home care to operating theaters and hospital cleaners, and the food industry, from planting and harvesting, to slaughtering and meat packing, to restaurant staffing.

Healthcare?  High school kids here have the option of taking a class that combined with good grades and a short trial period automatically results in being hired at $18 an hour as caretakers at retirement homes after graduation.  I have several younger quasi relatives that took that route; its one of the very, very few entry level jobs that pays significantly over minimum wage.   Why are foreign workers needed for this?  Likewise - as a result of chatting with multiple younger folks at unwanted recent doctors visits - there appear to be a lot of 'medical assistant' types making a mere buck or three above minimum wage - no reason, period to hire foreigners except to cut back on payroll.

Food industry?  I spent years working on and off in the fast food biz, and have relatives still working in the field.  The employers there are notorious bottom feeders who routinely cheat their employees.  I remember only too well the various 'free time' scams, the 'salaried employee' scam (worked out to LESS than minimum wage most of the time, and other favored frauds, all pushed on the QT by those at the very top.  They like hiring foreigners because they're easier to abuse; US citizens can sometimes push back (the 'fight for $15' movement).

 

Slaughterhouses?  Read an article a while back - it was probably linked to here, though maybe not - about how that's turning into a prison industry thing - and the people behind that are major league scuzzballs - aka the entire Tyson family, among others.

 

No.  It's not about US workers being less qualified than those from abroad, it is about greedy scum sucking employers trying to trim payroll costs.   US wages for ordinary folk have remained stagnant for decades - especially since the 2007-2008 debacle - and this recruitment of foreign workers is a reason why.

 

 

 

 

   

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

4 minutes ago, Zorral said:

But he helped enable all the steps the rethugs took to end up with the orange nazi.  Maybe this is supposed to be a case of better too late than never.

Hence the questions. 

Right or wrong, I can appreciate how difficult it would be to do something like that. I’m sure that for him it’s a process that started long before Trump.

Its like the question “when did you convert to atheism?”  It doesn’t work like that. It’s a process that takes time. You don’t become one so much as you realize you already are one.