U.S. Politics: A Song Of Mimes And Musicians

[Jace, Extat]

57 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

A Pivotal Moment for Hungry Americans

A Republican plan to restrict food aid could reverse years of progress.

https://newrepublic.com/article/151077/pivotal-moment-hungry-americans

 

Let's hope they succeed

[The Mance]

4 hours ago, mormont said:

There is no cunning mind behind it.

Tump manipulates the media with the skill of a child deploying such rhetorical devices as “I know you are but what am I,” or “I’m rubber, your [sic] glue.”  He literally counters criticism of articulated deficiencies not with demonstrations of competence, or reasoned explanations, but simply by claiming the opposite of what was leveled against him, or else accusing his accuser with the same.  “I hire the best people”. “I have the best words”  “these traitors should be locked up” etc

It’s effective for the same reason that engaging with a personality so stubborn and lacking in imagination that they are willing to do nothing but tirelessly parrot back your own words at you was so frustrating:  It’s exhausting, galling, boring, and it precludes any conclusive admission of guilt or wrongness or fault on their part.  No matter the evidence on any side of an issue, if one party in unwilling to engage with actual facts, ever, or, better still, makes up their own facts, no one “wins”.  Its just perpetual stymieing.

Tump is the pasty orange embodiment of the adage about arguing with idiots.  But is there some overarching, Machiavellian intent to his bullish, blunt force obtuseness?  Does he wake up in the mornign and go, “today I’m going to be so unfathomably dense, so cripplingly self-defeating, so willfully, transparently, narcissistically deluded, that I “win”?  No, thats just who he is.

So while there is no question that the media is being manipulated, it verges on not even wrong to attribute it to Trump, as if through artful, calculated, shrewdness.

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

A Pivotal Moment for Hungry Americans

A Republican plan to restrict food aid could reverse years of progress.

https://newrepublic.com/article/151077/pivotal-moment-hungry-americans

This is why the right has no moral credibility. The war on the poor that they have been waging for decades (if not centuries, depending on how you define the terms) is pointless and cruel, and might literally starve millions. Compared to that level of gratuitous hatred, their squeaking about "freedom" and individual rights means nothing, and their regular claim that they are good, faithful Christians is laughable.

[davos]

12 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

If this is what is really going on it is absolutely time to invoke the 25th Amendment.

While the author (authors?) back off from wanting to do just that, I suspect that the first public move to set up a an attempt to remove Trump via the 25th amendment.  The whole thing is engineered to piss Trump off to the point of a real, public meltdown.  The anonymity.   Publishing it through the NY Times.  The revealing of stuff Trump would think should have been left behind closed doors.  The use of big words.  While it could simply be a chance for a frustrated individual to vent in public, everything about it screams of a more calculated attempt to goad an already enraged and unstable individual into rash action.  If he takes the bait and does something even more stupid and vile publicly than has been the daily norm for this administration, then the group behind this would have a stronger case from a public relations standpoint for invoking the 25th amendment.  While the amendment allows for the temporary removal of a sitting president by the majority vote of the cabinet, if the claim of being unfit is contested by the president it would require a 2/3 vote in congress to make it permanent.  So a group scheming to take this route would have to sell doing so to congress and the country.  Otherwise they could temporarily replace Trump with Pence only for trump to return in a few weeks even more deranged and full of rage and paranoia than he is now.  Yes, even if that is their plan, this person or persons are cowards for failing to take action early given the severity of their claims.  But if this is an opening move, there is some sense to it.    Rather this is what is indeed happening and if it is rather it is a viable approach are not clear but I am convinced the op-ed is part of something more significant.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, davos said:

While the author (authors?) back off from wanting to do just that, I suspect that the first public move to set up a an attempt to remove Trump via the 25th amendment.  The whole thing is engineered to piss Trump off to the point of a real, public meltdown.  The anonymity.   Publishing it through the NY Times.  The revealing of stuff Trump would think should have been left behind closed doors.  The use of big words.  While it could simply be a chance for a frustrated individual to vent in public, everything about it screams of a more calculated attempt to goad an already enraged and unstable individual into rash action.  If he takes the bait and does something even more stupid and vile publicly than has been the daily norm for this administration, then the group behind this would have a stronger case from a public relations standpoint for invoking the 25th amendment.  While the amendment allows for the temporary removal of a sitting president by the majority vote of the cabinet, if the claim of being unfit is contested by the president it would require a 2/3 vote in congress to make it permanent.  So a group scheming to take this route would have to sell doing so to congress and the country.  Otherwise they could temporarily replace Trump with Pence only for trump to return in a few weeks even more deranged and full of rage and paranoia than he is now.  Yes, even if that is their plan, this person or persons are cowards for failing to take action early given the severity of their claims.  But if this is an opening move, there is some sense to it.    

Davos,

A very cogent and well thought out point.  Trump is already publicly calling this "treason".  The fact that he thinks a personal betrayal constitutes constitutional "treason" is disturbing unto itself.  It really may push him into becoming publicly unhinged.  A dangerous tactic depending on what he may do until he is forced to step down.

[Gorn]

6 minutes ago, davos said:

While the author (authors?) back off from wanting to do just that, I suspect that the first public move to set up a an attempt to remove Trump via the 25th amendment.  The whole thing is engineered to piss Trump off to the point of a real, public meltdown.  The anonymity.   Publishing it through the NY Times.  The revealing of stuff Trump would think should have been left behind closed doors.  The use of big words.  While it could simply be a chance for a frustrated individual to vent in public, everything about it screams of a more calculated attempt to goad an already enraged and unstable individual into rash action.  If he takes the bait and does something even more stupid and vile publicly than has been the daily norm for this administration, then the group behind this would have a stronger case from a public relations standpoint for invoking the 25th amendment.  While the amendment allows for the temporary removal of a sitting president by the majority vote of the cabinet, if the claim of being unfit is contested by the president it would require a 2/3 vote in congress to make it permanent.  So a group scheming to take this route would have to sell doing so to congress and the country.  Otherwise they could temporarily replace Trump with Pence only for trump to return in a few weeks even more deranged and full of rage and paranoia than he is now.  Yes, even if that is their plan, this person or persons are cowards for failing to take action early given the severity of their claims.  But if this is an opening move, there is some sense to it.    Rather this is what is indeed happening and if it is rather it is a viable approach are not clear but I am convinced the op-ed is part of something more significant.

 

This is an interesting theory which explains something I've been wondering about myself - what was the motive behind publishing such an article in NYT? If it was just a frustrated individual venting in public, publishing an article is a very stupid move, since it is likely to end up with a purge of the White House staff and restricted opportunities for "behind-the-scenes management" in the future. The smart thing would be to keep quiet and continue doing what they were doing. The only way this makes sense is if it is part of some bigger plan.

[Maithanet]

2 minutes ago, Gorn said:

This is an interesting theory which explains something I've been wondering about myself - what was the motive behind publishing such an article in NYT? If it was just a frustrated individual venting in public, publishing an article is a very stupid move, since it is likely to end up with a purge of the White House staff and restricted opportunities for "behind-the-scenes management" in the future. The smart thing would be to keep quiet and continue doing what they were doing. The only way this makes sense is if it is part of some bigger plan.

I think the "bigger plan" is this person is trying to save the GOP in the post-Trump era.  They'll be able to say there were principled conservatives who were making sure the country didn't go off the rails, and therefore Republicans can be trusted to govern.  Not to mention the inevitable book deal when they reveal their identity and have it confirmed by the NYT. 

[S John]

@davos also the timing is suspicious.  The same week we were given excerpts from Woodward's unflattering account of the Trump White House.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 hours ago, Serious Callers Only said:

 

And that's why she will be the nominee. Others may be more qualified, but she's best suited to tear Trump to pieces in the debates.

6 hours ago, mormont said:

Nah.

All Trump has in the way of 'media manipulation' is a saying so old that it's become a banal truism: you can fool all of the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time. 

His business career has been based on the latter and so is his political career. As well as a heaping pile of luck, in the latter case. 

A 'master media manipulator' would not face daily bad press, would be able to control the media agenda by means other than spewing out loud distractions, and would have a strategy rather than lurching from one crisis to the next. What you have in Trump is someone whose personal style accidentally benefits from several existing vulnerabilities in the way our media works. This is by happenstance, not design. There is no cunning mind behind it. 

I completely agree with the first part, but not the last. A little bit of negative press is a bad thing, but an avalanche of it has increasingly diminishing returns. There are too many scandals to follow, and Trump knows this, so anytime there’s a story he fears is damaging, he creates a new mess somewhere else, and we all going chasing after it. It may not even be intentional, but it is effective.

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, S John said:

@davos also the timing is suspicious.  The same week we were given excerpts from Woodward's unflattering account of the Trump White House.

Yes, and according to NYT, the person contacted them 3-4 days ago.  After the Woodward accounts were coming out. 

[davos]

1 minute ago, S John said:

@davos also the timing is suspicious.  The same week we were given excerpts from Woodward's unflattering account of the Trump White House.

And immediately following John McCain's funerals, which were a big middle finger to the Oompa-Loompa president.

[Bonnot OG]

Cory Booker announced that he is willingly violating the Committee Confidential rule and releasing the “racial profiling” email. “I recognize it comes w the penalty of expulsion from the Senate.”

Grassley is such a fucking blowhard. Someone should just punch him in the fucking mouth right on the floor at this point.

[Fez]

I think its important to not get too hyped over the op-ed. Its entirely possible its some frustrated mid-level senate approved deputy director or assistant secretary who is trying to ease their guilt, or because some unflattering stuff may be about to come out about them in the Woodward book. Or it could be someone from the DC/NYC establishment social scene who doesn't want to permanently ostracized and is expecting their name to come out soon. Or someone from DoD (all the foreign policy references) who doesn't pay attention to how media cycles work and didn't expect any major blowback reaction from Trump.

It's also possible the author is simply trying to show establishment Republicans that adults are in the room and there's no need to panic and vote Democratic in November. Or its a false-flag op-ed from a true believer who wants to cause a crackdown in the West Wing.

It also could be the start of a plan to remove Trump. But that's far from the only, or most likely, explanation.

[Rippounet]

6 minutes ago, S John said:

@davos also the timing is suspicious.  The same week we were given excerpts from Woodward's unflattering account of the Trump White House.

Yeah, there's clearly a link with the Woodward book.

If the anonymous guy from the NYT oped gets caught and turns out to be unreliable, the Trump administration can say he was Woodward's (and Wolfe's) source all along, thus linking the "lying MSM," the "deep state" the "RINOs/Republican never-trumpers" ... etc.
It would be a master strike to cast doubt on everything that's been said about the Trump White House right before the midterms.

Better yet, link that guy (and perhaps a few others) to Mueller somehow and accuse him of treason (which wouldn't be completely wrong, considering what he says he's been doing), and Trump could conceivably get Republican support in Congress for truly outlandish things. Like firing Session and Mueller perhaps. Or worse.

4 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

And that's why she will be the nominee. Others may be more qualified, but she's best suited to tear Trump to pieces in the debates.

I completely agree with the first part, but not the last. A little bit of negative press is a bad thing, but an avalanche of it has increasingly diminishing returns. There are too many scandals to follow, and Trump knows this, so anytime there’s a story he fears is damaging, he creates a new mess somewhere else, and we all going chasing after it. It may not even be intentional, but it is effective.

I agree. I think the bolded needs to be stressed: Trump doesn't have to be a genius to be effective at mass manipulation. He somehow managed to be elected, and we still don't know if his narrative about being a victim of the "establishment" really can't work.

And since it's his main narrative, and one that can be exploited to legitimize some very undemocratic and/or unconstitutional moves one should consider the possibility of him going to great lengths to cast himself as the victim.

I know it's crazy, but that's the kind of thing that Trump's authoritarian and mob-esque characteristics could lead him to try. Especially if he has the support of Russian intelligence on some level or the other. There could be something terrible in the works to make sure that the Dems have no chance of getting the House back.

[Zorral]

10 hours ago, Starkess said:

That op-ed makes me seethe. "Oh this is totally the situation in which the 25th amendment is intended to be used, but that sounds like a lot of trouble for my party, so I can't be bothered and I'll just try to be a puppeteer." Fuck that. Either the President is dangerously incompetent and needs to be removed for office, or you need to faithfully execute the duties of your position as given to you by the duly-elected President.

The fact that you're justifying it to yourself based on the awful fucking policies that the Rs have managed to pass is just a cherry on top of this shit sundae.

   These people are NOT 'heroes of resistance.' 

 

They ARE nazi clown collaborators who hate each other almost as much as they hate the rest of us.  They are merely terrified their orange clown in chief is off the leash and they can't control him, so, as usual, they are expecting the rest of us that they screw every which way to fix that, so they can continue destroying the country in ease and peace, profiting themselves beyond anyone in history's wilde$t dream$.  Sheesh, the asshat who wrote that thing in the Times even boasts of it.  Lock them all up, starting with that long-time political operative, Kavanaugh.

[aceluby]

14 hours ago, Altherion said:

Again, this is an argument that was persuasive for a while, but after more than a decade of controversy regarding this program, it doesn't really work any more. There are much more plausible reasons for the tech companies to like this program with by far the most obvious being that competition drives down salaries (yes, they're still high relative to the other jobs, but they'd be even higher without this). A more subtle reason is that because of their legal status and usually also their upbringing, they're willing to put up with both working and living conditions which most Americans would object to.

In my area software engineer unemployment is basically 0%.  We just had to hire a guy at a lower pay grade than me at a higher rate than I earn because the market is almost entirely labor starved, and he is working under an H1B visa.  I'll probably be shopping around next year after half my LTI is guaranteed so I can get a 25% bump somewhere else.  

[Bonnot OG]

Booker released the docuements. Take a nice hard look at what kind of scumbag Kavanaugh is and what kind of pieces of shady shit that make up the GOP are.

[Zorral]

56 minutes ago, Gorn said:

This is an interesting theory which explains something I've been wondering about myself - what was the motive behind publishing such an article in NYT? If it was just a frustrated individual venting in public, publishing an article is a very stupid move, since it is likely to end up with a purge of the White House staff and restricted opportunities for "behind-the-scenes management" in the future. The smart thing would be to keep quiet and continue doing what they were doing. The only way this makes sense is if it is part of some bigger plan.

President Pence will not help or improve anything, except, perhaps not declaring more wars?  Especially on trade? The Koch Bros will be even happier. No one will reverse the cuts in food aid.  And Pence is more than willing to have abortion, sales of reproductive control products, and reproductive health care for women to disappear.  Nor is he in the least 'diversity friendly,' but just the opposite. The poor, women and other Others, and minorities are surely between Scylla and Charybdis.

 

[Bonnot OG]

Who gives a flying fuck about that garbage op-ed? Seriously, this place has wasted so much time talking about that pile of shit.
The person that wrote it is a piece of shit regardless of the motivations to put it out. If you're still working for this administration and still apart of the GOP, you're garbage.

[aceluby]

10 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said:

Booker released the docuements. Take a nice hard look at what kind of scumbag Kavanaugh is and what kind of pieces of shady shit that make up the GOP are.

This asshole's gonna be on the bench for 30 fucking years.

We are so fucked.