U.S. Politics: A Song Of Mimes And Musicians

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, btfu806 said:

Yes they have.  

Jerry Brown was famous for this in the 80s in California. "Jerrymandering" 

 

Last I checked, California was not the whole nation. REDMAP was a systemic system done across every single state with the intent of changing the maps based on the 2010 census and winning state elections. 

Democrats have NEVER done this. 

1 minute ago, btfu806 said:

In the early 90s democrats did this constantly when they could throughout the country. Here is a whole NYT article about it: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/08/us/1990-elections-future-redistricting-elections-strengthen-hand-democrats-91.html At this time democrats at a 100 seat advantage in the house.

You'll note that this article didn't actually indicate that the democrats DID do this, only that they COULD. And as it turned out, they didn't - and we know this because of 1994, when Republicans took over the House fairly easily. 

And again - not a national effort, not a specific campaign, etc. 

1 minute ago, btfu806 said:

Now if Democrats are the ones trying to stop it nowadays, good, that's awesome. But let's not pretend they have never done it.

You really don't understand what I wrote, and didn't really attempt to understand it, nor did you read the article. Good day. 

[btfu806]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Last I checked, California was not the whole nation. REDMAP was a systemic system done across every single state with the intent of changing the maps based on the 2010 census and winning state elections. 

Democrats have NEVER done this. 

You'll note that this article didn't actually indicate that the democrats DID do this, only that they COULD. And as it turned out, they didn't - and we know this because of 1994, when Republicans took over the House fairly easily. 

And again - not a national effort, not a specific campaign, etc. 

You really don't understand what I wrote, and didn't really attempt to understand it, nor did you read the article. Good day. 

Lol they did do it, they got more seats in 1991 by redistricting. The article clearly states that. "A key to the Democrats seemingly impregnable control of the House of Representatives has been their control of state governments, which have the constitutional task of drawing the nations political map every 10 years. Throughout the 80s, the Reagan and Bush administrations and the Republican National Committee aimed at the 1990 elections as their chance to break Democrats stranglehold on redistricting. The Republicans say by deftly drawing district lines the Democrats have split the Republican vote in a way that makes it hard for Republicans to win their fair share of Congressional elections." 
Do you think that all democrats all over the country had just happened to do the same thing? They planned it. It's politics. It's what political national parties do. They plan things..... 

[aceluby]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

But it was a Republican Governor who proposed it over the objections of the Democratic State legislature.  That means nothing?

I'm not sure why you think it's such a big deal that a GOP governor proposed the idea to Democratic objections while downplaying democratic voters pushing it through.  I think this is how all redistricting should be done and when brought to democratic voters they agree.  Are you really surprised that people with their job on the line objected to it?  Because I'm not.

[Bonnot OG]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Bonnot,

Republicans can engage in more Gerrymandering because they control more States that allow such.  If any moderation is "garbage" what is your plan?

And how the hell do you think they control more states? Because the fucking gerrymander them. Wake up. 

A Kavanaugh confirmation isn't a what if he strips the rights of marginalized demographics, it's a how many of their rights will be stripped.

A little girl who is 10 now will have her rights attacked up until she is 40 when Kavanaugh and Gorsuch are hopefully dead and out of the picture, and hopefully with a court that is not as hard right leaning as it will be.

A person that is apart of the LGBTQ community that is in their 30s and up, that just got some rights to be treated with some dignity and equality, will have their rights regressed and will either be in their 60s or die before they ever gain their rights back that should have always been protected in the first place

This goes for all the other demographics this bigoted fucking scumbag and the rest of that court of scumbags will attack if, which it is more of a when, he is confirmed.

And because he thinks the president can do what ever he likes, that gives a footing to fascism. That allows a more comeptent fascist than Trump to come in, take power and never give it up, and start killing off anyone they do not like and deem a threat.

[Morpheus]

Coffee Boy Georgie Paps got 14 days in jail and one year probation.

[Morpheus]

“The Brett Kavanaugh I knew Should Not Sit on the Supreme Court”

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i-knew-brett-kavanaugh-during-his-years-republican-operative-don-ncna907391

[Larry of the Lawn]

Even IF immigration lowered wages for most people it's only economic justice, kind of like reparations, and it shouldn't be looked at as a negative.  What the fuck makes a US citizen worth more than someone born somewhere else?  Arguing against immigration from an economic standpoint is gross and disgusting.

You've had a cushy life thanks to colonialism, imperialism, and the economic advantage of slavery. Sorry, but that pendulum is going to swing back.  Anti-globalists can suck my balls.  The idea that the resources of this world should be divided up more or less equally shouldn't be a radical position.  

Anyone calling for more strict immigration is a loser racist garbage dweller, whether you think of yourself that way or not.

[The Anti-Targ]

7 hours ago, btfu806 said:

If there isn't economic growth in the field, there wouldn't be new hires in that field, would there? So if there isn't a higher demand for bus drivers, they wouldn't keep hiring bus drivers. There would be people that just need to find a different job. 

I don't disagree with you, that there needs to be economic growth to keep up with immigration. But if the markets are allow to operate freely and not with government intervention, the markets will equal themselves out. 

You also assume that for lawyers, all skills are equal. So if two lawyers, one immigrant and one not, are equal at skill level that the company will hire the cheaper one, which could be true. But if one is a better litigator, bills more hours and is more valuable to the company and the other one is just cheaper, the company is going to take the lawyer that brings in more money... As that lawyer brings in more money, they themselves are going to see their value increase and ask for more money. They start making more money, the company starts making money. Trade isn't a zero-sum game and working is essentially a series of mutually beneficial trades.

The problem comes when you have a labour market that allows someone with a job to be dismissed without cause and directly replaced by someone cheaper. There doesn't need to be economic growth or job growth for native labour to be displaced if companies can terminate employment at will. You need labour regulations that prevent 1:1 replacement, then youi can be less concerned about the displacement aspect of immigrant labour.

There are still industries that employ a lot of low skilled immigrant / seasonal immigrant labour because the industries can't pay enough to convince local people to work. Fruit and vegetable harvesting is an example. For an orchard to be economic it can only afford to pay pretty modest wages and it's strictly seasonal work. They can't afford to pay high enough rates to get enough local people to do the work. But they can afford to pay a bit more than what they pay seasonal immigrants. But there is also an attitude problem in a lot of cases. Locals who get hired to do this shitty work are often somewhat resentful, they think the pay is too low for the physical demands of the work, so they don't work very hard, and are thus not very productive, and it's often people with not so good employment records who are available for this work, so the basic work ethic is not great. Seasonal immigrants are more intrinsically motivated to work long and hard for the kind of money on offer, especially because the money goes a lot further back home where most of it gets sent. It's not necessarily a matter of lazy locals vs energetic immigrants. It's more about whether the work is meaningful to a person. fruit and vegetable harvesting is simply not regarded as sufficiently meaningful work for enough of the local population for the farmers to regard the local labour market as a highly productive labour force. Locals would rather flip burgers than pick fruit, because it's much easier work, and stable longer term, for the same kind of pay. And unemployed people are more likely to want to wait for a burger-flipping type job to come along than go for a back-breaking, short term, low-paid job and wind up unemployed again in a few months.

Anecdata will tell us there are locals who will work hard in these low-paid, seasonal jobs. Which is all well and good, but there are still not enough of that quality of local people to take up all of the work. If farmers could afford to pay $50 per hour for a fruit picker, then the govt could prohibit immigration for fruit picking work, because it should be possible to hire enough local people at that rate. But they can't afford to pay that much. So in theory there is displacement, but in the economic realities (unless you want to pay a lot more for your food), there isn't really displacement.

[The Anti-Targ]

22 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Even IF immigration lowered wages for most people it's only economic justice, kind of like reparations, and it shouldn't be looked at as a negative.  What the fuck makes a US citizen worth more than someone born somewhere else?  Arguing against immigration from an economic standpoint is gross and disgusting.

You've had a cushy life thanks to colonialism, imperialism, and the economic advantage of slavery. Sorry, but that pendulum is going to swing back.  Anti-globalists can suck my balls.  The idea that the resources of this world should be divided up more or less equally shouldn't be a radical position.  

Anyone calling for more strict immigration is a loser racist garbage dweller, whether you think of yourself that way or not.

I believe that free movement of capital should go hand in hand with free movement of labour. If you are only able to move around capital then that's how you get distorted labour markets. 

The other thing is, why is someone moving from, say Louisiana to New York any different to someone legally moving from Mexico to New York? It's still a labour unit moving into and theoretically displacing a New York local worker. But one is villified as being the cause of economic doom, while the other is completely dismissed as having any impact on the local employment market.

[Martell Spy]

The Obvious Suspect

The quest to unmask the New York Times op-ed writer has been filled with speculation. But the article’s prose points to one person in particular.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/new-york-times-op-ed-anonymous-writer-trump.html

Quote

Who wrote the anonymous op-ed against President Trump in Wednesday’s New York Times? All we know for certain is what the Times disclosed: that it’s a “senior official in the Trump administration.” But the most likely author, based on the op-ed’s content and style, is the U.S. ambassador to Russia, Jon Huntsman.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, aceluby said:

I'm not sure why you think it's such a big deal that a GOP governor proposed the idea to Democratic objections while downplaying democratic voters pushing it through.  I think this is how all redistricting should be done and when brought to democratic voters they agree.  Are you really surprised that people with their job on the line objected to it?  Because I'm not.

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a prominent DFL state senator from northern MN (whose name will not be given). While killing some time I was talking to him about having an independent system for drawing the map. He strongly opposed it because it would probably make his district purple.

Lost a lot of respect for him that day. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

The Obvious Suspect

The quest to unmask the New York Times op-ed writer has been filled with speculation. But the article’s prose points to one person in particular.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/new-york-times-op-ed-anonymous-writer-trump.html

 

Not a bad theory actually.

[Martell Spy]

Well, Obama may read this board.

Obama Calls Trump the Product of a Republican Party Gone Mad

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/09/obama-calls-trump-product-of-a-republican-party-gone-mad.html

Quote

The most interesting argument in Obama’s speech in Illinois today was that both these conclusions are wrong. “It did not start with Donald Trump,” said the former president. “He is a symptom, not the cause. He is just capitalizing on resentments that politicians have been fanning for years.”

 

[felice]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

There are still industries that employ a lot of low skilled immigrant / seasonal immigrant labour because the industries can't pay enough to convince local people to work. Fruit and vegetable harvesting is an example. For an orchard to be economic it can only afford to pay pretty modest wages and it's strictly seasonal work. They can't afford to pay high enough rates to get enough local people to do the work.

I'm not sure cause and effect are the right way round there. Because immigrant labour is available, orchards don't need to pay enough to hire local people, so the cost of fruit and vegetables goes down. Competition from imports complicates the situation, of course, making it impossible for local producers to charge the real cost.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Sad, but not surprising. Trump wants Sessions to investigate the NYT and whoever wrote the letter:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/07/politics/donald-trump-jeff-sessions-investigation/index.html

[Martell Spy]

1 minute ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Sad, but not surprising. Trump wants Sessions to investigate the NYT and whoever wrote the letter:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/07/politics/donald-trump-jeff-sessions-investigation/index.html

He also suggested the NYT investigate it. You know, the guys that already know the answer.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

He also suggested the NYT investigate it. You know, the guys that already know the answer.

They actually are. I posted about it yesterday. The hard news side is trying like hell to uncover who it is, but the editorial side isn't letting in. There really are probably a handful of people who know who it is. My guess is the people who got the scoop and the editor. 

[Martell Spy]

Quite the class act. I wonder how the pro-life movement plans to stop Republican elites from procuring abortions.

Elliott Broidy’s Mistress Shera Bechard Says He Demanded She Get Abortion

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elliott-broidys-mistress-shera-bechard-says-he-demanded-she-get-abortion?ref=home

Quote

 

They include Bechard’s claim that Broidy compelled to her to have an abortion; that he refused to wear a condom; and that he had sex with Bechard “without telling her he had genital herpes.” In addition, Broidy allegedly told Bechard he had prostate cancer and that he was unwilling to have his prostate removed “because it would stop him from having sex, which he told her was more important to him than life itself.”

 

 

 

 

Quote

Before their relationship ended, Broidy allegedly pushed her to “drink excessively so that she would be more compliant toward his physical abuse.” Broidy also hurt her during sex, she alleges, and talked about wanting to “skull fuck” her.

 

[aceluby]

22 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Quite the class act. I wonder how the pro-life movement plans to stop Republican elites from procuring abortions.

Elliott Broidy’s Mistress Shera Bechard Says He Demanded She Get Abortion

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elliott-broidys-mistress-shera-bechard-says-he-demanded-she-get-abortion?ref=home

 

Locker room talk.  Not just for the locker room apparently.

[Ice Queen]

9 hours ago, aceluby said:

Yes, both sides should not do it, but both sides are not doing it to anywhere near the same degree.  That's why it's such an issue.  I'm not sure why it's so hard for you centristy people that want to both sides everything to simply acknowledge that the GOP are using this to an unheard of degree so they can keep power with a minority of voters.  That is a huge problem.

Pennsylvania Republicans are still howling in rage that their gerrymandering was ruled unconstitutional and the map redrawn. Because of it, their pet Keith Rothfus is getting his butt kicked in the polls in the new PA-17. The latest poll had Conor Lamb at +12. When the decision was first handed down, he was on the local news whining that he'd lose his job.