U.S. Politics: A Song Of Mimes And Musicians

[Mexal]

8 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Does anyone seriously think Woodward came away from that interview with a positive opinion of Trump? Does anyone think Woodward was debating Trump in that interview? Does anyone that no Woodward didn’t know what was happening when Conway came on the line?

he got to repeat his talking points? His talking points are idiocy and he repeats them constantly anyway.

”GDP less than zero” isn’t actually possible, anymore than a temperature below absolute zero is.

It was not an interview. The book was already written. It was a courtesy call to let Trump know the book was written and that he tried to get an interview with him hence Trump and Woodward coming back to Woodward's inability to secure the interview.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 hours ago, Frog Eater said:

And she will run unopposed in the General Election. As the left pushes further left, the Republican Party needs to field moderate Republican candidates to compete in the Generals. 

Is this a series comment? Because while Democrats are moving to the left in some areas, Republicans have raced to the far right in almost every district in the country. You cannot win a primary as a moderate Republican in all but a few places, and those districts are likely safe seats for Democrats anyways. And given who ya’ll nominated in 2016, I’d say it’s a fair bet that moderation isn’t in your foreseeable future.

[Rippounet]

54 minutes ago, mormont said:

As all Trump's statements are. But it was cringeworthy and painful to listen to Trump, not Woodward. He was fumbling and stumbling around in a fog of bombast, ignorance and lies, as usual.

See, that's the funny thing. I did not find that Trump was "fumbling and stumbling around." On the contrary I found that he had surprising control of that conversation while Woodward, with his slow, droning voice, sounded hesitant and defensive.
In fact, I'll daresay that call probably achieved all of its objectives, as limited as they may have been on some level.
And to be clear: this call is mostly a big "fuck you." But of course, from the president of the United States to a journalistic legend, this says a bit more than that.
I think if you take the time to think about the entire thing it's possible to see it as terrifying.
 

10 minutes ago, Mexal said:

It was not an interview. The book was already written. It was a courtesy call to let Trump know the book was written and that he tried to get an interview with him hence Trump and Woodward coming back to Woodward's inability to secure the interview.

An easy mistake to make, considering the content of the call, but it's actually Trump calling Woodward here.

[Mexal]

3 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

An easy mistake to make, considering the content of the call, but it's actually Trump calling Woodward here.

Fair. I read it again and you're right. Still doesn't really change the point that Woodward wasn't trying to interview Trump or get any information from him.

[Jace, Extat]

OH MY GOD WHO CARES!?!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

17 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

OH MY GOD WHO CARES!?!

Given the tenor of your response, I’d say you do.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

I understand your need to defend Woodward but the reason why Trump "wins" the exchange is that Woodward insists for far too long on the access issue, although it quickly becomes clear that Trump is being dishonest about it. 

I don’t think anyone really won or lost the call. Woodward isn’t playing a game, and Trump is too stupid to have planned one out. He might have been cruel, but that’s mainly his default position at this point time. What the call did show, combined with the leaked call with Omarosa, is that Trump is a terrible liar and actor, and if we can all see it, you better believe every world leader can too.

[Frog Eater]

39 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Is this a series comment? Because while Democrats are moving to the left in some areas, Republicans have raced to the far right in almost every district in the country. You cannot win a primary as a moderate Republican in all but a few places, and those districts are likely safe seats for Democrats anyways. And given who ya’ll nominated in 2016, I’d say it’s a fair bet that moderation isn’t in your foreseeable future.

I think a moderate Republican can compete in the General Election against these Democratic Socialists, who promise the moon, but just need all your money to deliver it. I hate to see unopposed congressional seats. 

[Suttree]

47 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

 these Democratic Socialists, who promise the moon, but just need all your money to deliver it. 

As opposed to what? These "fiscal conservatives" who promise the moon to corporations and the rich but just need to add $1.9 trillion to the national debt to deliver it.

It'll pay for itself! Sure hope those stock buybacks were worth it. Lol.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Pressley and Capuano had very little policy differences between them, so I'm not sure it is resounding proof of the leftward lurch of the party (particularly in midterm years it counts for less).

In other news, the orange cheeto's approval dipped below 40 per 538's aggregation. Maybe all the attacks on Sessions and making fun of his accent (allegedly) are finally peeling off some supporters?

[Rippounet]

19 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Fair. I read it again and you're right. Still doesn't really change the point that Woodward wasn't trying to interview Trump or get any information from him.

No, he wasn't (I'm not the one who wrote that). In fact, I don't think Woodward was trying to achieve anything in that call. From the beginning it was Trump who sought to belittle and intimidate, but also to cast doubt on the book's accuracy and credibility. All this I believe he did reasonably well, though I'll admit "played" was a bit strong a word (I was re-using lokisnow's expression). Nonetheless, I have to say that getting Woodward to apologize within a single minute of conversation doesn't seem bad at all to me...

And perhaps it doesn't matter, or perhaps it matters a great deal. It's certainly representative of Trump's relationship with the media and the truth, and casts a lot of light on many of his personal tactics (that lokisnow explained). Of course I don't think anyone here (on this board) is likely to be swayed by those. But for anyone even slightly skeptical of "MSM" journalistic legends like Woodward... I dunno. I guess it depends whether there still are people in the US who still haven't "chosen sides."

And on a completely different note:

7 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

 these Democratic Socialists, who promise the moon, but just need all your money to deliver it.

I'm pretty sure a smaller US military budget would work wonders without having to raise taxes. Socialized healthcare at least is surprisingly cost-efficient.
Or a progressive tax system might be enough to do the trick, without harming 90% of Americans.

[Frog Eater]

5 minutes ago, Suttree said:

As opposed to what? These "fiscal conservatives" who promise the moon to corporations and the rich but just need to add $1.9 trillion to the national debt to deliver it.

It'll pay for itself! Sure hope those stock buybacks were worth it. Lol.

The Republicans dont get a free passe either. They all preach tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, but forget the other side of that is spending cuts, particularly to entitlements and the military. 

[Mexal]

7 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

No, he wasn't (I'm not the one who wrote that). In fact, I don't think Woodward was trying to achieve anything in that call. From the beginning it was Trump who sought to belittle and intimidate, but also to cast doubt on the book's accuracy and credibility. All this I believe he did reasonably well, though I'll admit "played" was a bit strong a word (I was re-using lokisnow's expression). Nonetheless, I have to say that getting Woodward to apologize within a single minute of conversation doesn't seem bad at all to me...

And perhaps it doesn't matter, or perhaps it matters a great deal. It's certainly representative of Trump's relationship with the media and the truth, and casts a lot of light on many of his personal tactics (that lokisnow explained). Of course I don't think anyone here (on this board) is likely to be swayed by those. But for anyone even slightly skeptical of "MSM" journalistic legends like Woodward... I dunno. I guess it depends whether there still are people in the US who still haven't "chosen sides."

Trump used the same talking points he always uses and repeatedly says on twitter and in person. He's the best President they've ever had. The economy is the best it's ever been. He's accomplished more than anyone has ever accomplished in a shorter period of time. Everything everyone says about him is a lie. If continuing to say the exact same things over and over and over is casting doubt on the book's accuracy and credibility, than sure, Trump nailed it. But he didn't do anything different than he did with every other book, that he's done with literally every news story, regardless of whether it's been confirmed by him or his actions.

At the end of the day, if anyone out there believes a recording of Donald Trump, with a reputation for lying 15 times a day, saying the exact same shit he says every single day over Bob Woodward, one of America's most thorough and well respected investigative journalists who has 100s of tapes to back up everything he has written, then nothing anyone says will ever change their mind.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

47 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

I think a moderate Republican can compete in the General Election against these Democratic Socialists, who promise the moon, but just need all your money to deliver it. I hate to see unopposed congressional seats. 

Not where they’re winning primaries. Furthermore, I’d favor them in any district that leans to the left. They can win in toss up districts, but they’d need lower turnout and that isn’t happening this cycle.

But again, there really aren’t any moderate Republicans left. Even the people we associate with as being a moderate are still super conservative.

[Week]

34 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

In other news, the orange cheeto's approval dipped below 40 per 538's aggregation. Maybe all the attacks on Sessions and making fun of his accent (allegedly) are finally peeling off some supporters?

#SouthernAccentsMatter -- the offense at Trump's insult to Sessions is just mind-blowingly hypocritical

33 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

The Republicans dont get a free passe either. They all preach tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, but forget the other side of that is spending cuts, particularly to entitlements and the military. 

You just gave them a free pass. Cuts to entitlements, welfare programs, social justice program, etc. "pay for"* tax cuts and military increases. There is no forgetting -- that's the policy.

*by "pay for" I mean "do not in any way pay for because they only have intestinal fortitude to screw over those without power -- the poor. There isn't much more to cut when they are already short money.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Not where they’re winning primaries. Furthermore, I’d favor them in any district that leans to the left. They can win in toss up districts, but they’d need lower turnout and that isn’t happening this cycle.

But again, there really aren’t any moderate Republicans left. Even the people we associate with as being a moderate are still super conservative.

Primaries are pushing both Democrats and Republicans further left and right.

[Frog Eater]

6 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Not where they’re winning primaries. Furthermore, I’d favor them in any district that leans to the left. They can win in toss up districts, but they’d need lower turnout and that isn’t happening this cycle.

But again, there really aren’t any moderate Republicans left. Even the people we associate with as being a moderate are still super conservative.

Certainly there are voters in the 7th District of Massachusetts that would feel better served by a Moderate Republican than a Democratic Socialist. Its half the city of Boston. Like I said, I hate seeing unopposed congressional races. 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts's_7th_congressional_district

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Primaries are pushing both Democrats and Republicans further left and right.

Sure, but the swing to the right is far more noticeable and frankly, unhealthy. Liberals are fighting for cheaper and greater accessibility to education and healthcare. Conservatives are fighting against gun control and defending authoritarianism.

Comparable? I think not.

[Martell Spy]

Woodward: Economic adviser 'stole a letter off Trump's desk'

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/administration/404933-woodward-gary-cohn-pulled-letters-off-trumps-desk-withdrawing-us-from%3famp

 

Quote

 

President Trump's former top economic adviser, Gary Cohn, twice pulled paperwork off of Trump's desk that the president was intending to sign to withdraw the United States from trade agreements, according to a forthcoming book from veteran journalist Bob Woodward.

The Washington Post, which obtained an advance copy of the book, reported Tuesday that Cohn "stole a letter off Trump's desk" that would have formally withdrawn the U.S. from a trade agreement with South Korea.

Cohn later told an associate that Trump didn't notice the letter was missing. Cohn also reportedly said he took the letter from Trump to protect national security.

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

Certainly there are voters in the 7th District of Massachusetts that would feel better served by a Moderate Republican than a Democratic Socialist. Its half the city of Boston. Like I said, I hate seeing unopposed congressional races. 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts's_7th_congressional_district

Sure there are, but the fact that she’s running unopposed tells us that they are few and far between. I do agree that no seat should go unopposed, but she would be whoever the Republicans put up.