The mystery of Robb’s letter

[Legitimate_Bastard]

On 9/1/2018 at 7:19 PM, Canon Claude said:

In “A Storm of Swords”, there’s a moment where Jeyne Westerling tells Catelyn that after he executes Lord Karstark, Robb spent a large part of a day writing a letter which he then burned.

Out of curiosity, any idea what could possibly have been the contents of that letter? Who it might have been addressed to? It seems a strange detail for GRRM to put into the books without it having some kind of meaning. Given the significance of letters in that book (Tywin’s letters to Bolton and Frey, the Nights Watch letter which reaches Stannis, etc), having Robb also write a letter and then burning it must mean something, surely? Or is it just a metaphor for how bad Robb was at diplomacy?

Robb was going to recall Jon from the NW.

[Night Train to Kathmandu]

On 9/2/2018 at 2:45 AM, Rosetta Stone said:

A letter of apology to Lord Frey?

No.  Robb and the Starks are too arrogant for that.

[oakbloodthesap]

to Theon greyjoy asking why he betrayed him , burns the letter after words. 

to the karstarks explaining why there lord father was executed, demanding they return to the fight, threatening them, demanding hostages, burns the letter 

warning roose bolton of the pending danger of house karstark host, and weather or not to spare the hair ,

threatening the freys to return to the war

a last attempt at getting aid from his aunt and her vale army, and or letting them escape throw the mountains and take passage to white harbor in order to retake the north 

to king joffery sueing for peace.. burns the letter 

to the frogmen's lord of the neck explaining what he needs / plain of attack ext 

to dorn to seek aid..burns the letter 

to his wifes father asking forgiveness for beding and weding his daughter with out his approval. burns the letter   

to Jon snow ordering him to raise a host from what he can and drive the ironborn out of the north in his  name his kings name in his fathers name . burns the later afterword 

i always thought it was a letter to theon greyjoy that he a couldn't find the words or didn't think it would matter soon.  

[Anck Su Namun]

On 9/1/2018 at 7:19 PM, Canon Claude said:

In “A Storm of Swords”, there’s a moment where Jeyne Westerling tells Catelyn that after he executes Lord Karstark, Robb spent a large part of a day writing a letter which he then burned.

Out of curiosity, any idea what could possibly have been the contents of that letter? Who it might have been addressed to? It seems a strange detail for GRRM to put into the books without it having some kind of meaning. Given the significance of letters in that book (Tywin’s letters to Bolton and Frey, the Nights Watch letter which reaches Stannis, etc), having Robb also write a letter and then burning it must mean something, surely? Or is it just a metaphor for how bad Robb was at diplomacy?

It was probably a letter to Walder Frey to propose a new deal.  

[Anck Su Namun]

On 9/2/2018 at 7:40 AM, Megorova said:

Maybe the letter was to Jon. In it Robb apologized for everything, admitted that he is really bad with all this diplomacy and leading people things, and asked Jon to come and help him. But then realised, that it's not fair to ask this from Jon, and thus burned that letter.

I don't think even an oathbreaker like Robb would think of something like this.  He doesn't have the authority to release Jon from his vows.  Nobody has that kind of legal right.  

 

[Megorova]

5 hours ago, Anck Su Namun said:

I don't think even an oathbreaker like Robb would think of something like this.  He doesn't have the authority to release Jon from his vows.  Nobody has that kind of legal right. 

And again people don't understand what I mean Robb didn't had an authority to release Jon from his oath to NW, though he, probably, hoped, that for him, for the sake of old times, for their past, Jon will become an oath breaker, and will desert from NW, if Robb will ask him to do it. He thought, that he is the King in the North, that he has high authority, that he will be able to protect Jon from people of NW, if Jon will become deserter. Maybe Robb, for one moment thought, that he and his cause is more important, than cause of NW, and while he is the King, they - the Watchers, are no one. So he thought, that they wouldn't come after Jon, because Jon's brother is King. He thought, that what he does, is more important, that what NW is doing. Because what exactly are they doing? They are fighting against wildlings. And they were doing it for thousands years. So wildlings aren't going anywhere, The Wall isn't going anywhere. So what's harm is there, if Jon will leave his duty at The Wall for a few months, or a few years, to help Robb to get Iron Throne, and avenge death of their father, and then will go back to NW? Why not?

Maybe that's what Robb thought. So he wanted Jon to come and help him. He, for a moment, became utterly selfish, and thought, that what he needs to do, is much more important, than what Jon does at The Wall, and that it's Jon's duty, as Robb's brother, as Ned Stark's son, as a Northerner, and thus servant of the King in the North, to answear to Robb summons and help him. But then he got off his high horse, realised, that even though, he is the King, his authority still doesn't nullify Jon's duties at NW, he has no right to demand or expect anything, nor from NW, nor from Jon, even thought Jon was his brother. Now other Watchers are Jon's brothers, and NW is his home, family and duty. So Robb realised, that he doesn't have any right to ask Jon for any favours, or to order him to come.

He realised, that he can't ask Jon to come. He has no right to ask something like that from Jon. Not because of their past, not for the sake of avenging death of their father, not because Robb is alone and needs his brother, not because now Robb is the King and can order people around, not because his battle against Lannisters is more important than whatever is going on at The Wall. And he never protected Jon from Cat, didn't tried to make him stay at Winterfell, so he has no right to ask anything from Jon.

His motives to write that letter were complicated. But when he got his head  straighten, he burned that letter. Because that letter showed how selfish, self centered, infantile, and dependant Robb is (or at least temporarily became, in a moment of weakness).

[Tagganaro]

7 hours ago, Anck Su Namun said:

I don't think even an oathbreaker like Robb would think of something like this.  He doesn't have the authority to release Jon from his vows.  Nobody has that kind of legal right.  

I wouldn't say "nobody" has that legal right- it has certainly been stated by GRRM in the past that an "appropriate authority" could release Aemon from his maester's/NW vows.  I believe he was specifically talking about the Great Council in that respect when they were thinking of doing so had Aemon agreed to it.  We see the Lannisters also strip Barristan of his white cloak despite his vows, and Tywin is also willing to release Jaime from his vows as well so again, really depends on appropriate authority.

And in terms of Robb not having the authority in general...I don't think that's quite true either.  As Robb says in ASOS, if he sent 100 men to the NW in place of Jon he would think the NW would release Jon.  We further see from the beginning of the books that part of the Warden in the North's job requirement is to punish deserters from the NW- I would maybe think that authority cuts both ways and had a Warden so wanted to not punish a deserter, they probably could.  Because in many cases in Westeros this is not actually a question of right, but a question of might.

To the OP, yes I do think that's what this letter was- it was a letter to Jon as we see in ASOS as Robb's situation starts to decline in the in the war of the 5 Kings he becomes increasingly concerned with naming an heir.  When you factor in Theon's betrayal you get a depressed Robb who is looking for brotherhood and friendship- it makes sense he would think of turning to Jon in this situation as well as it also making sense that he would write a letter then think better of it due to Jon's oaths.

[bemused]

On 9/6/2018 at 8:12 AM, Tagganaro said:

As Robb says in ASOS, if he sent 100 men to the NW in place of Jon he would think the NW would release Jon ....

 ....it makes sense he would think of turning to Jon in this situation as well as it also making sense that he would write a letter then think better of it due to Jon's oaths.

 

I agree.

There  is a SSM directly relating to the release of a Kingsguard or Night's Watch brother...

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1127 ... from back in 2000.

Here are Catelyn and Robb from ASOS, Catelyn V...  

Quote

 

If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.”

He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.”

“Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”

 

Because GRRM has Robb use "more precedent", it shows that Robb is aware of some precedent ... at least one other case, though more rare than that of a legitimized a bastard rising to rule his house. He may possibly know of a past case that required a levy of men in exchange.

As King-in-the-North, he has the power to legitimize Jon, but since the NW (historically) is not supposed to serve any one king,or lord, I think it would be a bit more complicated than Joffrey ousting Barristan.

The precedent (or precedents?) that Robb is thinking of must be the decision of the LC, and must include some serious inducement. (The NW would not want it to become something that could be asked at a whim).. Probably it's the kind of request that would have to be founded on extreme circumstances such as - the King, about to go into battle, doesn't have a viable heir.

I can believe Robb's burned letter could have been an earlier request for Jon's help, but his situation at that time was not quite as dire. With the possibility/ likelihood now that (after much trying) Jeyne is not pregnant, Robb's need is greater.

ETA: To clarify, such a letter would probably be addressed to LC Mormont, with an inclusion for Jon.