AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 This is another attempt to create an alternate history to what the Maesters have told us, put together from multiple accounts. In the hopes it will reveal a truer picture of what has been happening in Westeros. After I will give an account pointing out specific dates and what the implication is by them. This is for those interested or who may not have seen my older threads. Next to each event is a number that can also be found at the bottom of the thread with the corresponding quotes and references. Two inclusion marked in Red, the Andal invasion and Blackwood/Bracken Feud are the only ones included by me that actually have multiple dates given, and I’ve chosen one. Other two inclusions in black bold, by me have no dates given for them in the books and are placed in based on surrounding events or info about them. Such as Bael and the kingsroad. All other accounts listed have only one date mentioned for them. 2700Bc - Blackwoods vs Bracken feud begins during the Age of Hereos 1. Gendel and Gorne 2. 1700 Bc – Dawn Forged to fight the Long Night. 3 . Joramun teams up with Brandon the Breaker against the Night King? Or the Century afer? 4. Andal Invasion of Westeros 5. Inner Walls and only defense of Winterfell built 6. Abandonment of Zamettar by Ghis 7. 1436 Bc- Scouring of Lorath by Valyria 8 1336 Bc- Boash on Lorath 9 1000 Bc- Starry Sept built in Old Town after Andal Conquest 10, Glass Candles brought to Old Town from Valyria 11, Falcon Crown first worn by Artys Arryn I forged 12 950 Bc- Start of Rhoynish Wars with Valyria 13 700 Bc- The Horned Lord passes the Wall using magic 14. Nymeria’s 10,000 ships. And End of Rhoynish Wars with Valyria 15 400Bc- Osric Stark youngest L.C. serves for 60 years 16 300 Bc- Hardhome, first city north of the Wall burned to the ground 17, Valyrians take Dragonstone 18. . Commanders at Night Fort and Snow Gate go to war, teaming up to kill the L.C. till the Stark in Winterfell kills them. 19 Freys take the Neck. 20. Bael the Bard 200Bc- Gate at Wall/ Bridge of Skulls Sealed. 21. Valyrian Steel Blades begin to enter Westeros. 22. 112Bbc – Exile of the Targaryens from Valyria and flight to Westeros 23. 100 Bc- Doom of Valyria by Lannister Gold to the Faceless Men for entering Westeros? 24 0 – Aegon’s Conquest 25 226 Ac – Raymund RedBeard vs Lord Willam Stark 27 300 Ac- Mance Rayder 28 Right away, some interesting ones are shown. Starting at 1700Bc, we see Dawn is forged and the Ghiscari abandon Zamettar. Implying the Ghis lived till at least then, and that the final war with Valyria might have been then. Which is interesting cause this is when the Long Night should be ending then, as Dawn is hypothetically the sword used during the Battle of the Dawn. As no other blade is as unique as it, and its station as sword of the morning. This is also when the Andal are invading Westeros. Did they help win the Battle for the Dawn? Now going backwards for a sec, we see it all starts with the Blackwood vs Bracken feud and Gendel and Gorne. Are these two legends related? Is this when the war with the Children Started? The others? I’ve seen some interesting theories surrounding Gendel and Gorne. Lmk yours. Next we see, with Ghis out of the way, the Valyrians begin to quickly expand west with Lorath. Next we get a few interesting things at once. The Starry Sept built in Old Town following the end of the Andal Conquest. Notice how war with the Rhoynar begins that same century. Its indicated that Lorath may represent the end of Andals in Essos and why attention then turned to the Rhoynar. At this same time, Glass Candles are brought to Old Town from Valyria (maybe by the Andals, or possibly by the Maesters themselves though as the Maesters were said to often travel to Valyria in search of answers to their questions). We also have the Falcon Crown first worn by Ser Artys Arryn of Old Town being forged, implying that he came late in the Andal Invasion. The Valyrians make short work of the Rhoynar and Nymeria eventually goes to Westeros Hard home, the first settlement north of the wall on the verge of becoming a city is burned to the ground a’ la the scouring of Lorath fashion, with Valyria taking Dragonstone that same century. Possibly in a response to Hardhome itself. Shortly after taking Dragonstone we can see Valyrian Steel blades begin to filter into Westeros immediately after. Though shortly after taking Dragonstone and making a presence in Westeros, Valyria is destroyed by the Faceless men and allegedly the Gold of the Lannisters. Note that all the Kings Beyond the Wall with dates are accounted for. Joramun is put around the Long Night due to info of his tale, while Bael the Bard is put after Jaehaerys sometime as he traveled down the Kingsroad and dealt with a Lord Stark. Raymund Red Beard follows shortly after, with Mance right behind him, showing an increased frequency of attempts by Kings Beyond the Wall to get south of the Wall. Given the dating for the founding of the Citadel and that there are two sphinxes outside, and the fact that Valyria rose up after the Long Night but the Valyrian war with Ghis began before the Long Night. I would venture that the Valyrians come from Westeros and that the Sphinxes were trophies of conquest from Ghis. And lastly, did The Lannisters pay the hefty gold price of the Faceless men to End Valyria for taking Dragonstone and attempting to enter or return to Westeros? 1. Blackwoods vs Brackens. Spoiler A Dance with Dragons - Jaime I "Five hundred years before the Andals. A thousand, if the True History is to be believed. Only no one knows when the Andals crossed the narrow sea. The True History says four thousand years have passed since then, but some maesters claim that it was only two. Past a certain point, all the dates grow hazy and confused, and the clarity of history becomes the fog of legend." 2. Gendel & Gorne. Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Wall and Beyond: The Wildlings The brothers Gendel and Gorne were joint kings three thousand years ago. Leading their host down beneath the earth into a labyrinth of twisting subterranean caverns, they passed beneath the Wall unseen to attack the North. Gorne slew the Stark king in battle, then was killed in turn by the king's heir, and Gendel and his remaining wildlings fled back to their caverns, never to been seen again. 3. Dawn’s Forging. Spoiler You've mentioned that Dawn has an illustrious history -- is there a ballpark figure for how long the Daynes and/or Starfall/Dawn have existed? Oh, I'd say Dawn goes back a couple thousand years... and before that, things get a little fuzzy anyway. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P75/ 4. Joramun Spoiler No need for quotes really. Joramun happened right after the Long Night. If Dawn is the Sword used in the Battle of the Dawn, then Joramun is sometime shortly after this. 5. Andal Invasion Spoiler A Dance with Dragons - Jaime I “Only no one knows when the Andals crossed the narrow sea. The True History says four thousand years have passed since then, but some maesters claim that it was only two. Past a certain point, all the dates grow hazy and confused, and the clarity of history becomes the fog of legend." 6. Inner Walls of Winterfell. Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The North: Winterfell The inner walls, which were once the only defensive walls, are estimated to be some two thousand years old, 7. Abandonment of Zamettar by Ghis Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships Nymeria refused and took her fleet to sea once again, hoping to find refuge amongst the steaming jungles of Sothoryos. Some settled on Basilisk Point, others beside the glistening green waters of the Zamoyos, amongst quicksands, crocodiles, and rotting, half-drowned trees. Princess Nymeria herself remained with the ships at Zamettar, a Ghiscari colony abandoned for a thousand years, whilst others made their way upriver to the cyclopean ruins of Yeen, haunt of ghouls and spiders. 8. Scouring of Lorath Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Free Cities: Lorath It is said that not a man, woman, or child survived the Scouring of Lorath, so hot did those fires burn. Thereafter the Lorathi isles remained uninhabited for more than a century. When men at last returned to the isles to live, they were men from Valyria itself. Thirteen hundred and twenty-two years before the Doom, a sect of religious dissidents left the Freehold to establish a temple upon Lorath's main isle. 9. Boathi on Lorath. Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Free Cities: Lorath When men at last returned to the isles to live, they were men from Valyria itself. Thirteen hundred and twenty-two years before the Doom, a sect of religious dissidents left the Freehold to establish a temple upon Lorath's main isle. 10. Starry Sept in Old Town. Spoiler A Feast for Crows - Prologue The Lord's Sept joined in a moment later, then the Seven Shrines from their gardens across the Honeywine, and finally the Starry Sept that had been the seat of the High Septon for a thousand years before Aegon landed at King's Landing. The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown When the Andals came, the Hightowers were amongst the first lords of Westeros to welcome them. "Wars are bad for trade," said Lord Dorian Hightower, when he set aside his wife of twenty years, the mother of his children, to take an Andal princess as his bride. His grandson Lord Damon (the Devout) was the first to accept the Faith. To honor the new gods, he built the first sept in Oldtown and six more elsewhere in his realm. When he died prematurely of a bad belly, Septon Robeson became regent for his newborn son, ruling Oldtown in all but name for the next twenty years and ultimately becoming the first High Septon. The boy he raised and trained, Lord Triston Hightower, raised the Starry Sept in his honor after his passing. 11 Glass Candles. Spoiler A Feast for Crows - Prologue Pate knew about the glass candles, though he had never seen one burn. They were the worst-kept secret of the Citadel. It was said that they had been brought to Oldtown from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom. He had heard there were four; one was green and three were black, and all were tall and twisted. 12. Falcon Crown first worn by Artys Arryn Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest The two queens smiled at one another and exchanged courtesies instead. Then Lady Sharra sent for the three crowns (her own regent's coronet, her son's small crown, and the Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale that the Arryn kings had worn for a thousand years), and surrendered them to Queen Visenya, along with the swords of her garrison. And it was said afterward that the little king flew thrice about the summit of the Giant's Lance and landed to find himself a little lord. Thus did Visenya Targaryen bring the Vale of Arryn into her brother's realm. The World of Ice and Fire - The Vale: House Arryn The true tale of House Arryn contains neither giants nor griffins nor huge falcons, yet from the day Ser Artys first donned the Falcon Crown to the present, they have rightly held a storied place in the history of the Seven Kingdoms. 13 Rhoynish wars begin Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships Beldecar's History of the Rhoynish Wars is without equal in describing these conflicts, which stretched over the best part of two and a half centuries. The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships This series of conflicts reached a bloody climax a thousand years ago in the Second Spice War, when three Valyrian dragonlords joined with their kin and cousins in Volantis to overwhelm, sack, and destroy Sarhoy, the great Rhoynar port city upon the Summer Sea. 14. The Horned Lord. Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Wall and Beyond: The Wildlings The brothers Gendel and Gorne were joint kings three thousand years ago The Horned Lord would follow them, a thousand years after (or perhaps two). His name is lost to history, but he was said to have used sorcery to pass the Wall. After him, centuries later, came Bael the Bard, 15. End of Rhoynish wars-Nymeria and 10,000 Ships Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships This series of conflicts reached a bloody climax a thousand years ago in the Second Spice War, when three Valyrian dragonlords joined with their kin and cousins in Volantis to overwhelm, sack, and destroy Sarhoy, the great Rhoynar port city upon the Summer Sea. 16. Osric Stark. Spoiler A Feast for Crows - Samwell I . Four hundred years before the Conquest. Osric Stark was ten when he was chosen, but he served for sixty years. That's four, my lord. You're not even close to being the youngest ever chosen. You're fifth youngest, so far." 17. Destruction of Hard Home. Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Wall and Beyond: The Wildlings Hardhome was once the only settlement approaching a town in the lands beyond the Wall, sheltered on Storrold's Point and commanding a deepwater harbor. But six hundred years ago, it was burned and its people destroyed, though the Watch cannot say for a certainty what happened. 18. Valyrians take DragonStone. Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Doom of Valyria With the destruction of the Rhoynar, Valyria soon achieved complete domination of the western half of Essos, from the narrow sea to Slaver's Bay, and from the Summer Sea to the Shivering Sea. Slaves poured into the Freehold and were quickly dispatched beneath the Fourteen Flames to mine the precious gold and silver the freeholders loved so well. Perhaps in preparation for their crossing of the narrow sea, the Valyrians also established their westernmost outpost on the isle that would come to be known as Dragonstone some two hundred years before the Doom. 19. Commanders at Nightfort and Snow Gate go to War. Spoiler A Storm of Swords - Jon VII did you know that six hundred years ago, the commanders at Snowgate and the Nightfort went to war against each other? And when the Lord Commander tried to stop them, they joined forces to murder him? The Stark in Winterfell had to take a hand . . . and both their heads. Which he did easily, because their strongholds were not defensible. 20. Frey Take the Neck. Spoiler A Game of Thrones - Catelyn IX Robb's neck reddened at the rebuke. "Tell me what you mean, Mother," he said meekly. "The Freys have held the crossing for six hundred years, and for six hundred years they have never failed to exact their toll." 21. Gates of Wall sealed Spoiler A Dance with Dragons - Jon IV "And wildlings, and darker things," said Marsh. "I would not send out hunters, my lord. I would not." No. You would close our gates forever and seal them up with stone and ice. Half of Castle Black agreed with the Lord Steward's views, he knew. The other half heaped scorn on them. "Seal our gates and plant your fat black arses on the Wall, aye, and the free folk'll come swarming o'er the Bridge o' Skulls or through some gate you thought you'd sealed five hundred years ago," the old forester Dywen had declared loudly over supper, two nights past. 22 Valyrian Steel in Westeros. Spoiler Valyrian steel blades in Westeros. Mormonts get one, but Lannisters must pay a heavy price for one. A Game of Thrones - Jon IV The Tarlys were a family old in honor, bannermen to Mace Tyrell, Lord of Highgarden and Warden of the South. The eldest son of Lord Randyll Tarly, Samwell was born heir to rich lands, a strong keep, and a storied two-handed greatsword named Heartsbane, forged of Valyrian steel and passed down from father to son near five hundred years. A Game of Thrones - Jon VIII "It is," the Old Bear told him. "It was my father's sword, and his father's before him. The Mormonts have carried it for five centuries. I wielded it in my day and passed it on to my son when I took the black." A Game of Thrones - Catelyn I It had been forged in Valyria, before the Doom had come to the old Freehold, when the ironsmiths had worked their metal with spells as well as hammers. Four hundred years old it was, and as sharp as the day it was forged. The name it bore was older still, a legacy from the age of heroes, when the Starks were Kings in the North. The World of Ice and Fire - The Westerlands The sword Brightroar came into the possession of the Lannister kings in the century before the Doom, and it is said that the weight of gold they paid for it would have been enough to raise an army. But it was lost little more than a century later, when Tommen II carried it with him when he sailed with his great fleet to ruined Valyria, with the intention of plundering the wealth and sorcery he was sure still remained. The fleet never returned, nor Tommen, nor Brightroar. 23. House Targaryen exiled Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest Of the five dragons who had flown with Aenar the Exile from Valyria, only one survived to Aegon's day: the great beast called Balerion, the Black Dread. The remaining two dragons—Vhagar and Meraxes—were younger, hatched on Dragonstone itself. A Feast for Crows - Samwell I The book appeared undamaged. Maester Thomax's Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons had not been so fortunate. It had come open as it fell, and a few pages had gotten muddy, including one with a rather nice picture of Balerion the Black Dread done in colored inks. 24. Doom of Valyria Spoiler The World of Ice and Fire - The Westerlands The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. 25. Aegon’s Conquest. Spoiler You don’t need quotes for this lol you know this. Spoiler 27. Raymund Redbeard Spoiler Raymun united the free folk clans beyond the Wall as King-Beyond-the-Wall. He had seen the Night's Watch decline and growing laxness and in 226 ᴀᴄ took advantage of the situation. Sending his reavers over after establishing a toehold for themselves on the Wall, they used thrown ramparts of their own and dropped ropes and ladders for his people to cross over and march south. Because the Night's Watch was caught off guard as Redbeard's horde came down upon the north, its lord commander, Jack Musgood, was henceforth called Sleepy Jack.[2] 28. Mance Rayder. Spoiler You know this. No Quotes THE END Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 There is a contradiction between Ghis abandoning Zamettar 1000 years prior to Nymeria by Maester Yandel as he previously says that Ghis fell 5000 years ago. As no other dates go back that far, i have no reference that the information is true. Daenerys is the first person to tell it but she's not sure if she remembers right, and Maester Yandel later tells it. Though no one in Mereen make mention of it, other than they were ruling long ago when the Valyrians were still having fun with sheep. Given that the Wildling are often seen with sheep, Bael is spelled the same way as Aegon spells his name and not like how the Daynes spell theirs. It may be that the Valyrians come specifically from the North of Westeros, and not the South of Westeros. Though the Old Tongue of the North doesnt sound Valyrian. As mentioned above though, the Sphinxes out side of the Citadel, if not originally of Westeros, must be either gifts or trophies from Ghis. So take your pick on who the Citadel was originally associated with, Ghis or Valyrians. Curious any thoughts here. The dates above though and rapid expansion of Valyria after 1700Bc seems to be consistent with their power at this time, and show that Ghis must have finally been put down, for them to finally expand west. With no gap in time between destruction of Ghis and expansion west there after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 For more on why Hardhome is important and maybe tied to Valyria and why they took Dragonstone at that same time, check out my thread In here i discuss the ancient legends and piece them out into a hypothetical time frame of events tied to the lands North of the Wall once having been a kingdom of Westeros Quote A Storm of Swords - Jon VI Maester Aemon paused, washcloth in hand. "The Horn of Winter is an ancient legend. Does the King-beyond-the-Wall truly believe that such a thing exists?" "They all do," said Jon. "Ygritte said they opened a hundred graves . . . graves of kings and heroes, all over the valley of the Milkwater, but they never . . ." "Who is Ygritte?" Donal Noye asked pointedly. and how the curse placed on the Barrow of the First High King/ Garth the Green, is tied to why there can not be any cities or kingdoms north of the Wall any more, and why Valyria had to burn Hardhome to the ground. Edit- Dont worry about reading the other threads mentioned within the Thread above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 6 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: For more on why Hardhome is important and maybe tied to Valyria and why they took Dragonstone at that same time, check out my thread In here i discuss the ancient legends and piece them out into a hypothetical time frame of events tied to the lands North of the Wall once having been a kingdom of Westeros and how the curse placed on the Barrow of the First High King/ Garth the Green, is tied to why there can not be any cities or kingdoms north of the Wall any more, and why Valyria had to burn Hardhome to the ground. Edit- Dont worry about reading the other threads mentioned within the Thread above. This could tie in to the Long Night and has just become blurred over the ages. The Dawn Age/First Men Age must have had Kingdoms north of where the wall was built. Why wouldn't they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said: This could tie in to the Long Night and has just become blurred over the ages. The Dawn Age/First Men Age must have had Kingdoms north of where the wall was built. Why wouldn't they have? This is what i think caused the Long Night, and why the Wall was built to prevent the curse placed upon the Barrow Kings Tomb. Hence Aerys II couldn't activate the curse, cause he only ruled the kingdoms south of the Wall. Garth the the First King, who's likely buried in the Great Barrow with the Curse. The Grey King is likely the King who tried to Rival him imo. So to stop this, Bran the Builder and the CotF built the Wall. This couldn't break the old curse though, or stop the previous White Walkers, who were now trapped North of the Wall. Edit- This is why hardhome is not allowed to become a city, or else they would break the pact to not activate the curse. When the Watch almost allows this to happen, Valyria shows up and torches Hardhome and takes Dragonstone. There appears to have been a power shift over the years though, either by the Maesters, or Andals, causing a loss of knowledge of sorts regarding the true purpose of the Wall. Or an active movement away from it, as possibly evident by Valyria being destroyed after taking Dragonstone and making their presence in Westeros. Though, Valyria maybe breaking a pact also by showing up. It may be that Westeros agreed to hold up their end, long as Valyria stays out, but having failed, Valyria returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: There is a contradiction between Ghis abandoning Zamettar 1000 years prior to Nymeria by Maester Yandel as he previously says that Ghis fell 5000 years ago. I would be cautious about equating "a thousand years" with "1,000 years", as GRRM often uses the phrase to simply mean "long ago" or "for a long time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Nittanian said: I would be cautious about equating "a thousand years" with "1,000 years", as GRRM often uses the phrase to simply mean "long ago" or "for a long time". Yea, that's pretty well known. Redundant though. You have to make a decision at some point or just go sit on the bench. Im going with them all as rough estimates, but all roughly estimated to the same times. Not much of reach, or anything to be "cautious" over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 How would the seastone chair, moat cailin and the black stone on battle isle fit in with this. What interaction if any do you think the Valyrians had to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Nittanian said: I would be cautious about equating "a thousand years" with "1,000 years", as GRRM often uses the phrase to simply mean "long ago" or "for a long time". Sorry, reread and my response seemed to brief and maybe to blunt. Take for instance the Egyptians. We know their dates are questionable, but still, as historians you must do your best educated guess to still attempt at reconstructing it. To never try is to fail all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said: How would the seastone chair, moat cailin and the black stone on battle isle fit in with this. What interaction if any do you think the Valyrians had to do with it? Well i've thought about abridging those into this maybe bolded in green, but didn't wanna weight this down too much. Fitting it is a little tricky in that we dont know roughly how long the Long Night lasted. 10 years? 20, 100, 1000? Knowing that would help a lil bit. That being said, The Grey King is who i suspect of starting the Long Night as he is who i think activated the curse placed on Garths Barrow. So we know this is sometime into the Age of Heroes, which doesn't end till after the Long Night, which runs into Dawn being forged and our timeline above. As you can see from that time line though, we have the Black wood and Bracken Feud and Gendal and Gorne. Gendal and Gorne faced a Stark King, and the Blackwoods were banished by one. Yet, we have kings of 1000 years possibly living back then. Melisandre gives us reason to go along with this legend. Even if the time frame is stretched some. When did Brandon the Builder go North? and How long was the Long Night? those factors make some of this hard, but i suspect the Grey King is Garths child from the East, part of his Empire of the Dawn family and likely the Bloodstone Emperor, who warred with his half brother Durran Gods Grief. Those seven attacks on his castle were the Grey King. Garth imo was a member of the Empire of the Dawn, who had a family out their, then left and traveled to Westeros. Where he started a new family that came into conflict with his old family. The old way vs the New. The Empire had likely been trading at Old Town and built the Base, and also built Pyke and the Sea Stone Chair. This is how Garth knew about Westeros. Moat Cailyn was likely Garths Castle as the middle point of his kingdom which included the lands north of the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Just so I get this straight - under this timeline is Azor Ahai before or after Garth Greenhand? I guess you can't know without knowing about the Long Night and how long it lasted, I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 38 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said: Just so I get this straight - under this timeline is Azor Ahai before or after Garth Greenhand? I guess you can't know without knowing about the Long Night and how long it lasted, I see your point. Azor would be after Garth, Garth would predate the Long Night as the Curse was placed on Garth's Barrow and the Grey King was the one who activated it. Azor Ahai would likely thus have fought the Grey King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Azor would be after Garth, Garth would predate the Long Night as the Curse was placed on Garth's Barrow and the Grey King was the one who activated it. Azor Ahai would likely thus have fought the Grey King. So could you go one step further and say perhaps AA=GG? It would just be another name for AA, along with all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 Just now, Legitimate_Bastard said: So could you go one step further and say perhaps AA=GG? It would just be another name for AA, along with all the others. No. Garth was dead by time Grey King was fighting Azor. Grey King brought on the Long Night by activating the curse placed on Garth's Barrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said: So could you go one step further and say perhaps AA=GG? It would just be another name for AA, along with all the others. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The North curse was placed on the Great Barrow that would allow no living man to rival the First King. This curse made these pretenders to the title grow corpselike in their appearance as it sucked away their vitality and life. Garth. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Iron Islands: Driftwood Crowns The deeds attributed to the Grey King by the priests and singers of the Iron Islands are many and marvelous. It was the Grey King who brought fire to the earth by taunting the Storm God until he lashed down with a thunderbolt, setting a tree ablaze. The Grey King also taught men to weave nets and sails and carved the first longship from the hard pale wood of Ygg, a demon tree who fed on human flesh. The Grey King's greatest feat, however, was the slaying of Nagga, largest of the sea dragons, a beast so colossal that she was said to feed on leviathans and giant krakens and drown whole islands in her wroth. The Grey King built a mighty longhall about her bones, using her ribs as beams and rafters. From there he ruled the Iron Islands for a thousand years, until his very skin had turned as grey as his hair and beard. Only then did he cast aside his driftwood crown and walk into the sea, descending to the Drowned God's watery halls to take his rightful place at his right hand. Grey King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 We aren't meant to know a detailed chronology of past events. Everything that took place pre-andal will never be known because there are no written records. Kudos to you for flinging darts in the dark to get dated but I guarantee they are wrong because we are not meant to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: We aren't meant to know a detailed chronology of past events. Everything that took place pre-andal will never be known because there are no written records. Kudos to you for flinging darts in the dark to get dated but I guarantee they are wrong because we are not meant to know Been a min since i've heard from you hahaha Yes i know how you feel about the past hahaha we dont all feel that way though Wonder what the new HBO show during the Long Night will be about, probably just a bunch of mythic stuff that makes no sense and has no bearing on the main series (shrugs) Thank you though, where have you been? haha and yes i know the above dates aren't likely exact, but based on the legends, this is my best interpretation. Im surprised i havn't heard from you on Bael haha This was worth posting again and updating for those unfamiliar with some of the dates given, like Dawn being forged. People can make of it what they will. It's also worth looking at since its relevant to some other topics being discussed. Imo the above time line makes more sense given Valyria's rise and expansion. Thousands of years of literally doing nothing makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: We aren't meant to know a detailed chronology of past events. Everything that took place pre-andal will never be known because there are no written records. Kudos to you for flinging darts in the dark to get dated but I guarantee they are wrong because we are not meant to know And not fair lol, i didn't make up those dates hahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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