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Legitimate_Bastard

Andals in the Reach

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Of the various Andal invaders to come to Westeros, some fared better than others. It seems in the Reach they fared particularly well and were welcomed by the Gardener Kings. Why was this? Prior to the arrival of the Andals in the Reach the Gardener Kings prepared fortifications & teamed up with the COTF in case of invasion. When the Andals did come they are described as disunited, but they are welcomed anyway. That seems so odd. Especially considering that by this time the Kingdom of the Reach had soaked up Oldtown and the Arbor. Would a Kingdom this powerful not have done well? It seems in laying down they gave up their culture and became Andal through and through.

The Kings of Winter and the recently defeated House Bolton, who you would think were weaker than the Reach were able to defeat the Andal invaders - could the Gardeners have done the same? Thoughts?

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This is a good topic I feel that in the years since dance came out that we've literally burned out every single topic to the point where most of us at least have dissected every single book, world book, and short stories. I remember when I started on this forum years ago that I believed in some of these theories and I probably still do but I've literally reread every book in the main series at least 10 times each.

to the point though; the andals came last to the reach and by then the Gardner kings heard every single story good and bad. They saw what happened to the first men who resisted the andals and what happened to the kings who converted and joined in. The kings who converted and used the andals and the new faith to their advantage were thriving and in some cases like the lannisters the andals they took in were more loyal than the first men who they ruled. It's good they did too because yeah eventually the tyrells did take their place and rulers of highgarden but only after all the gardners died on the field of fire. The tyrells were "stewards" to the Gardner kings but they also were their knights and personal champions who took Gardner brides from time to time and in turn gave the gardners brides a few times.

one interesting thing to look at too though is that the Starks beat every single andal army to who tried to invade the north and conquer it. Yes the neck is a formidable defense but I believe it's more than that. It's the same reason why I believe the northern armies generally produce the toughest soldiers along with the vale and the storm lands. In the north particularly though you se a way more rigid and rugged way I life than the rest of the seven kingdoms have excluding the iron islands and Dorne. But in the end I don't think that the andals had it in them to fight those kind of men in that kind of element.

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4 hours ago, The_Eagle_Lord19 said:

 

one interesting thing to look at too though is that the Starks beat every single andal army to who tried to invade the north and conquer it. Yes the neck is a formidable defense but I believe it's more than that. It's the same reason why I believe the northern armies generally produce the toughest soldiers along with the vale and the storm lands. In the north particularly though you se a way more rigid and rugged way I life than the rest of the seven kingdoms have excluding the iron islands and Dorne. But in the end I don't think that the andals had it in them to fight those kind of men in that kind of element.

Reminds me of a quote (I couldn't find it) that stated something along the lines of 1 northman being worth 10 lannister, or 1 died for every 10.

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16 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Reminds me of a quote (I couldn't find it) that stated something along the lines of 1 northman being worth 10 lannister, or 1 died for every 10.

AGOT Arya III

Quote

"You wouldn't let anyone kill him, would you?" she asked.

Desmond laughed. "No fear on that count, little lady. Lord Eddard's guarded night and day. He'll come to no harm."

"The Lannisters have more than fifty men," Arya pointed out.

"So they do, but every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, so you can sleep easy."

AGOT Arya IV

Quote

Inside were more bodies; a groom she had played with, and three of her father's household guard. A wagon, laden with crates and chests, stood abandoned near the door of the stable. The dead men must have been loading it for the trip to the docks when they were attacked. Arya snuck closer. One of the corpses was Desmond, who'd shown her his longsword and promised to protect her father. He lay on his back, staring blindly at the ceiling as flies crawled across his eyes. Close to him was a dead man in the red cloak and lion-crest helm of the Lannisters. Only one, though. Every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, Desmond had told her. "You liar!" she said, kicking his body in a sudden fury.

 

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32 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

AGOT Arya IV

Inside were more bodies; a groom she had played with, and three of her father's household guard. A wagon, laden with crates and chests, stood abandoned near the door of the stable. The dead men must have been loading it for the trip to the docks when they were attacked. Arya snuck closer. One of the corpses was Desmond, who'd shown her his longsword and promised to protect her father. He lay on his back, staring blindly at the ceiling as flies crawled across his eyes. Close to him was a dead man in the red cloak and lion-crest helm of the Lannisters. Only one, though. Every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, Desmond had told her. "You liar!" she said, kicking his body in a sudden fury.

 

Ah - so perhaps those Northern soldiers aren't worth 10 Westermen after all?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

 

Ah - so perhaps those Northern soldiers aren't worth 10 Westermen after all?

 

 

Naah! I posted a short analysis of it in the Wow I never noticed some months back. Of Ned's original 50, he senda back 4 with lady's bones, loses 3 against Jaime, sends away 20 with Beric and takes 8 with him to throne room, so at most 15 guys at tower. Lannisters have around 100 men once those in throne room with cersei excluded. That's 3 northmen dying for 1 westerman when the odds are 8-9 to 1 or worse if Ned had men holding the ship as well.

Whereas Robb has 6K men against Jaime's ~2K and 10 westerman were slain for every one of Robb's. That's with odds of 3 to 1. Northmen are superior soldiers that much is obvious.

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