Quantum Leap style

[The Last Frey]

Yep. Your superior respect for chaos and spousal abuse shines through, too.

[redxavier]

I'd leap into Catelyn and steer 'myself' away from that Tavern. That's when the war really starts.

[Sandor vs Gregor]

Yep. Your superior respect for chaos and spousal abuse shines through, too.

A small price to pay for the satisfaction of knowing she would no longer torment me through the rest of the story.

But hey, it's a good thing GRRM's writing these and not me. My stories would be much shorter.

[Jon Blackfyre]

I got a goody...I'd leap into Oberyn after hes pinned Gregor to the ground, cut the chit chat and put the big mans sword through his face and be done with it. Go into the crowd, grab my paramore, find that hot blond whore Tyrion suggested and get send some sky rockets into flight.

[Rockroi]

I know a woman on Dragonstone who isn't deterred by Sandor Clegane.... Maegor's Holdfast is no Dragonstone, and if Stannis doesn't need to fight Renly, that just sends him after the Lannisters that much sooner.

I agree to a certain extent. Stannis is still a bit distrustful of Mel, not even bringing her to KL for the battle. And her powers have some limits. In order to take Storm's End, she needed to gain access to the castle itself. Renly was not difficult as he was in a tent. Her assistance with slaying Balon, Joff, and Robb is obfuscated by the problems that each man had already created for himself- Balon was about to be preyed upon by his younger brother; Joff had alienated House Tyrell; Robb was caught in Frey and Lannister webs. Mel did not cause each one (save possibly Balon) to die by accident.

This is not to say Joff would have died an old man or that Stannis would not hurt him dearly. However, Joff's biggest enemy during the War was never Renly or Robb- it was always Stannis. Tywin was caught fighting Robb; as soon as Stannis started moving for KL, Tywin went to defeat him (along with Highgarden). Tywin- if not battling Robb, holding Harranhal, and chasing Bolton -could have been more useful at walling off Stannis. With Tywin in the South and Robb without a causis beli in the North, Joff could turn his attention to re-claiming Renly. I don't think you kill Renly or exile him. Send Selmy or someone to coax him back. A HUGE boon would be to make it seem like Renly's idea to send Cersei back to the Rock. Without Cersei (but with Tywin), Joff is protected from being trapped by court intrigue, but also allowed room to grow.

Once Renly is back in the fold, once Highgarden has nobody to support, its all Stannis all the time. Striking Dragonstone before Stannis leaves is imperative. Robb is not an enemy, but he's hardly an ally either. If Stannis ends up atthe Wall, with Eddard, near Robb... it could be a problem. However, there would be no problems in the West (with Balon), and no difficulties as Highgarden is unmotivated. Stannis alone is a problem, but by no means civil-war worthy.

My point is that at the time of his ascention to the throne, Joff was in a very good position that HE HIMSELF screwed up! Eddard was far mor evaluable alive and silent than dead and motivating. Without Robb pening a Northern Front to the War, it gives Joff far more options to win.

[L'Sana]

This is not to say Joff would have died an old man or that Stannis would not hurt him dearly. However, Joff's biggest enemy during the War was never Renly or Robb- it was always Stannis. Tywin was caught fighting Robb; as soon as Stannis started moving for KL, Tywin went to defeat him (along with Highgarden). Tywin- if not battling Robb, holding Harranhal, and chasing Bolton -could have been more useful at walling off Stannis. With Tywin in the South and Robb without a causis beli in the North, Joff could turn his attention to re-claiming Renly. I don't think you kill Renly or exile him. Send Selmy or someone to coax him back. A HUGE boon would be to make it seem like Renly's idea to send Cersei back to the Rock. Without Cersei (but with Tywin), Joff is protected from being trapped by court intrigue, but also allowed room to grow.

Once Renly is back in the fold, once Highgarden has nobody to support, its all Stannis all the time. Striking Dragonstone before Stannis leaves is imperative. Robb is not an enemy, but he's hardly an ally either. If Stannis ends up atthe Wall, with Eddard, near Robb... it could be a problem. However, there would be no problems in the West (with Balon), and no difficulties as Highgarden is unmotivated. Stannis alone is a problem, but by no means civil-war worthy.

I'm not so sure that I agree with you that Highgarden would be unmotivated. Mace Tyrell's motivation in all this was pretty simple: he wanted make his daughter a queen and see his grandchildren rule the realm. I don't think Tyrell gave a damn about Eddard Stark or the injustice of having him beheaded. And then there is Renly's motivation to consider. It strikes me that he got the notion he wanted to be king, and that was that. I'm not sure how he justified it in his own mind, but with Cat, the only justification he gave was that he wanted it and he was strong enough to take it. Neither of these change if Eddard isn't killed. Renly still has Highgarden, Storm's End, and (in his mind) Dorne and Dragonstone. Joff has the Lannisters and maybe the Starks, but it seems more likely that the North and Riverlands would stay neutral.

I suppose it would be possible for Joff to head this off at the pass, but he'd have to move very quickly, convince Renly that he never wanted to be King, and make the Tyrells such a good offer that they couldn't refuse.

[Greywolf2375]

Yep. Your superior respect for chaos and spousal abuse shines through, too.

While I'm not a big fan of it, there is a precedent in the story - the Mountain has been married twice before and his wives have died mysteriously, Robert has smacked her before ("that was not kingly" I think was the quote) - I could definitely have seen him losing it in one of his drunken stupors and drilling her in the face. Course that would have set an entirely separate chain of events off and Jaime might have bagged himself a 2nd king...

[Rockroi]

L'Sana:

Agreed. The Highgarden part of my Leap is the weakest part, but in retrospect, its the LEAST developed part of the story overall. While Tyrell's power-grab is bare, its unclear why Renly thinks HE can (not should) be King. I think the best way would be to rope Renly in fast; kick Cersei out immeadiately, drag Tywin in fast (both very doable if Robb Stark is quickly pacified). Renly- not Highgarden -could see this as a sign that maybe Joff is not that bad. Woo Renly back - possibly give him the honor of taking back Dragonstone from Stannis- whatever. Then, talk to Highgarden and possibly have Joff wed Tyrell's daughter; have Cersei wed Tyrell's son.

This mitigates a tremendous series of problems- Tywin being out fighting Robb (while the real enemies are elsewhere), the capital being unstable, too much backstabbing, Stannis free to cause chaos. Further, it stops Cersei from becoming regent, alienating Highgarden, and causing about 583 needless problems. This also saves Tywin's life. It also completely isolates Stannis, leaves him no chance of winning at Storm's End, even by killing Renly (as Renly's men- mostly from Highgarden) would simply continue the war for Joff.

What it does not do is free Jaime (Whispering Wood happened contemporaneously with Eddard's death). Once word reaches the North that Eddard is alive, AND admitted to treason, it will cause friction in the North. Some will claim Eddard lied, others will claim its no longer worth it to go to war. Obviously, others will claim that the North should not be used to free Riverrun.

Robb can save tons of face by letting Jaime go and ceasing hostilities in the face of his unsteady footing, fighting a war that may not matter. All this is calculated for.

All my Leap does is explain how EASY Joff had it had he kept Eddard alive and shipped him to the Wall. Many (not all) of the problems generated could have been avoided, thousands of lives saved, and much hardship averted.

Killing Eddard was the single dumbest move ANY character did in the first three books, save possibly Robb marrying a Lannister ally.

[L'Sana]

Agreed. The Highgarden part of my Leap is the weakest part, but in retrospect, its the LEAST developed part of the story overall. While Tyrell's power-grab is bare, its unclear why Renly thinks HE can (not should) be King.

He thinks he can because he thinks he has at least three of the seven kingdoms behind him plus Dragonstone. Of the remaining seven, the Lannisters have made enemies of North, Riverlands, and Vale. They have no one and no hope of getting anyone.

All my Leap does is explain how EASY Joff had it had he kept Eddard alive and shipped him to the Wall. Many (not all) of the problems generated could have been avoided, thousands of lives saved, and much hardship averted.

Killing Eddard was the single dumbest move ANY character did in the first three books, save possibly Robb marrying a Lannister ally.

No argument here. With Eddard alive, there is at least a chance that they can get the North and even the Riverlands to move to the "neutral" category. I don't think it affects Renly's decisions, but it does mean that Tywin can move his focus away from Robb and the Riverlands and focus on Stannis and Renly, the true threats.

[The Adequate Jon]

I would have leapt into Balon Greyjoy and attacked Casterly Rock instead of the North. It would have been fun to see Tywin try to fight a war on three fronts.

[Rockroi]

Renly's decision was based, in part, on not having to fight Tywin. Tywin was in the Riverlands by the time he left Highgarden. His plan was to rapidly hit KL. He never expected Stannis to land at Storm's End.

I think Renly's entire movement- his decisions, his supporters, his entire stratedgy-was based upon not having to fight a fully manned, fully mobilized King's Landing. If Robb and Riverrun go neutral (and this is a foregone conclusion with Eddard sent to the wall, alive, and dishonored by his own admitted treason), Tywin and all of the Rock can focus on Stannis & Renly. Renly and Highgarden each would individually have to consider this problem. If Joff handles Robb better Renly has AT BEST Highgarden and the Stormlands. Of the remaining five kingdoms, none are supportive of Renly, and one at war. Renly would also have to deal with Stannis.

As it stood, Renly only deleyed in going to KL because Stannis showed up. When Stannis- not Renly -marched on KL, Tywin jumped.

I really think that if Tywin is around KL, he would also have jumped on Highgarden much sooner. Tywin is stuck chasing Robb and Roose at the end of GoT; in my "Quantum Leap" world, he would be back in KL, marshalling troops, isolating Stannis, and almost assuredly, wooing Renly, Highgarden, or both. I also would bet that prior to heading to the Wall, Tywin could have persuaded Eddard to release a statement asking his son to lay down his arms. Utterly simple stuff.

But once Eddard dies, all bets are off. Robb now jumps immedaitely into the fray, locks horns with Tywin, crushes Jaime, frees Riverrun, and becomes a Northern Marauder, terrorizing the Rock, and lashing at any armies that come his way. Tywin, trapped, has to deal with this issue. The Rock cannot supply Tywin, nor Tywin relieve the Rock. Militarily, its a nightmare now that Riverrun AND Winterfell are at war with the Crown. This- more than anything else -allows both Tywin and Renly to move unapposed to various locations- Highgarden, SE, KL, Dragonstone, EVEN THE WALL! None of that would have been possible had armies and forces been drawn further South, no longer needed to fight a Northern enemy that is pacified, and almost certainly devided.

And once Sansa ceases being a suitable bride for Joff, it seems almost a faite acompli that it will be Margerys Tyrell. With Highgarden blood, the next King is an easy prize.

[The Last Frey]

Oh, letting Eddard live changes things, no doubt. Primarily, it keeps Robb out of the fighting... but I don't think that either Riverrun or Winterfell will call their banners for Tywin/Joffrey, no matter what.

However, I still think Highgarden will join Stannis, simply because they've heard the "Rains of Castamere", and know they can't go back to Tywin so easily.

But none of you are counting on Melisandre. She has her limits, but Storm's End was only an obstacle because there were "spells in the walls", a defense that the younger Red Keep cannot boast.

[Multaniette]

Brandon.

Let's turn back to Winterfell, folks.

[Rockroi]

... but I don't think that either Riverrun or Winterfell will call their banners for Tywin/Joffrey, no matter what.

Agreed. But Joff doesn't need them. He just needs to keep them neutral, freeing up the Rock and Tywin to take out whomever else is around.

However, I still think Highgarden will join Stannis, simply because they've heard the "Rains of Castamere", and know they can't go back to Tywin so easily.

And yet neither of those things occurred in the given time-line. Highgarden NEVER joined Stannis, and yet DID return to Tywin very easily after Renly fell. It seems that Highgarden doesn't care who sits the Irone Throne, just so long as they back the winner. I think if Joff is not challenged in the North, if the Rock and Tywin have troops and free supply lines from the West all the way to KL; I think Highgarden thinks twice about backing Renly. I think they turn him away. Either that, or Renly may go mute if Joff proves he's no monster.

If Joff acts like a reasonable leader who understands and appreciates the limits of his power, he could have crafted a more responsible inter-Kingdom policy. This would have made even FIELDING an army difficult for Renly, and it would have made Highgarden straying even more difficult.

Finally, the real boon in all this is that it isolates Stannis. Moreover, the North is still ripe for disunity with Balon Greyjoy still there. Honestly, if Eddard keeps his head, I seriously wonder what, if anything, could have defeated Joff.

[oldnan]

Just for fun:

I'd leap into Drogon and make my way to westeros alone, and land on a certain kingslayer's shoulder

To change history:

Meh, everyone else beat me to everything... :cry:

[Maester Yobjascz]

Other possibilities:

Leap into Edmure, and *let* Tywin cross the Red Fork, after a little bloody nose, that is. While it's too late to save Eddard and avert war, and too late to avoid Robb's marriage to Jeyne Westerling and the issue with the Freys, it should still avoid the worst of the repercussions. With Tywin stuck in the West, Stannis *would* have captured King's Landing. Tywin, caught between Robb's armies and Riverrun, would've been in a bad place, strategically, and might have lost to Robb... possibly being killed or captured. Even if not, Robb would be in a *very* strong position, and Tywin in a *very* weak one. The loss of King's Landing would have disrupted the Tyrell-Lannister alliance, as there'd be no King Joffrey for Margaery. Roose Bolton would've kept the faith, as his betrayal was rooted in the realization that Robb had lost the war. With Robb winning, Roose Bolton would remain loyal. Similarly, the Frey's generated the Red Wedding under the same condition... that Tywin would win the war, and that this would lead to a pardon for their earlier participation with the North. With Robb in control, the Frey's would've swallowed their pride, demanded apologies and gotten them, but I don't think the Red Wedding would have resulted, and Robb would be free to retake the North.

Beyond that, if Robb had more of the North in him, things could've been different even after accepting the Red Wedding invitation. On my reread, I'm always surprised at how willing Robb is to beg forgiveness from the Freys. He's their King, dammit. He led his troops into the castle, as their camp was setup on the *other side* of the river... so his men were admitted through the gates. Once in, he could've secured the gates, led his men into the keep, fully armed, and with Grey Wind at his side, taken Lord Frey into hand, and asked Lord Frey who he was to demand apologies from his King. At that point, Robb could strip Walder Frey of his lordship, skip the current heirs to the Twins (as they were the ones who greeted their King so coldly outside the castle), and grant the Twins to a lesser line of Freys, who might be more friendly to their King for their new status. Keep a few more as hostages for the continued aid of the new Lord Frey, marry Edmure to Roslin, and continue North. With the Red Wedding unknowingly ruined, Bolton would be unlikely to turn. IN part, it's because I think Bolton respects strength... and in part because Bolton would see too much risk in carrying out Tywins wishes on his own.

[Jon Blackfyre]

I would leap into Darkstar and make sure I didn't miss swinging that sword at Myrcella.

Not because I don't like Myrcella, just because he tried and missed, and I'd want to fix that for him.

[rand514]

Didn't see this one:

I would leap into Catelyn Stark and not argue against Ned wanting to stay in the north. I would've also argued against Sansa and Joffrey getting bethrothed. Hopefully this would've kept Ned in the North in order to march against the Others when they eventually come. Also put it into Ned's head that Rob should go over at Highgarden to meet and get to know Margery Tyrell. Since he would not be able to read the letter to Ned, this would not make Ned want to go find Jon Arryn's killer. Of course this would mean Robert would pick someone else to be his hand and he kind of indicated that that would've been the Kingslayer. Robert would've eventually have been killed and Renly and Stannis would've started their plots on the throne. Maybe the bethrothal to Robb Stark would make the Tyrells less likely to choose Renly over Stannis in their claim, as Ned would back Stannis' claim especially if Stannis made the evidence of Cercie's kids bastardy available. That would unite the Tyrells, Tullys, Starks and Tyrells against the Lannisters. With an overwhelming force like that I'm sure the Martells would join them. Goodbye Lannisters and hello big army to travel back north once the threat of the Others becomes really apparent.

[Prince Lotor]

Oh boy . . .

[The Last Frey]

And yet neither of those things occurred in the given time-line. Highgarden NEVER joined Stannis, and yet DID return to Tywin very easily after Renly fell. It seems that Highgarden doesn't care who sits the Irone Throne, just so long as they back the winner. I think if Joff is not challenged in the North, if the Rock and Tywin have troops and free supply lines from the West all the way to KL; I think Highgarden thinks twice about backing Renly. I think they turn him away. Either that, or Renly may go mute if Joff proves he's no monster.

Okay, poor wording on my part. Highgarden doesn't join with Stannis, but most of their bannermen do, and I am not convinced you can prevent that. All the same, Tywin will have a much easier time crushing them if he doesn't have to march against Rivverrun right away.

Finally, the real boon in all this is that it isolates Stannis. Moreover, the North is still ripe for disunity with Balon Greyjoy still there. Honestly, if Eddard keeps his head, I seriously wonder what, if anything, could have defeated Joff.

Melissandre. Still. However, even getting rid of Joff wouldn't be a huge coup, if only Tywin lived on to rule through Tommen.