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Angel Eyes

Crackpot Theory #2: Cersei Lannister is the reincarnation of Ellyn Reyne-Tarbeck

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Both are ambitious women whose main desire was power by any means necessary and used their bodies as weapons against members to gain power; Ellyn seduced Tywald and Tion Lannister, while Cersei seduced Jaime and Lancel. Both share an odd physical resemblance, being beautiful blonde women.

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Where does the reincarnation come into it?

It is a pretty misogynistic society and women have few ways to attain power, control and influence, sex is one of their primary weapons to do so. 

Most ambitious women are going to be using their sexuality.

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1 minute ago, Bernie Mac said:

Where does the reincarnation come into it?

It is a pretty misogynistic society and women have few ways to attain power, control and influence, sex is one of their primary weapons to do so. 

Most ambitious women are going to be using their sexuality.

Particularly regarding physical appearance, a vampish personality, and a taste for Lannister men. I just got the idea due to the fact that they look very similar.

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1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

Particularly regarding physical appearance, a vampish personality, and a taste for Lannister men. I just got the idea due to the fact that they look very similar.

Well regarding physical appearance, I imagine over the centuries there will have been frequent overlap between the Lannisters and Reynes, there will be some similarities. 

Ellyn's taste for Lannister men was all about securing power, it was not a special attraction to the chubby Tytos why she seduced him but a need to secure power. Cersei has gambled everything she has on sleeping with her brother, everything that Ellyn wanted (but on a larger scale) was Cersei's for the taking and she gambled on losing it all. I suspect Ellyn would never have been that foolish. 

 

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There is a Westerwoman archetype.

Rohanne Webber/Lannister, Joanna Lannister, Ellyn Reyne, Cersei, Sybelle Westerling. Genna too being the real steel behind Emmon though she was cut down by her father. Jeyne Westerling is the significant odd one out. These are the players in the game of thrones.

It is about Sansa, she is next on the production line and will eclipse all the Westerwomen before her in ability and achievement.

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They’re most certainly parallels and strong ones at that, but I haven’t seen any indication that reincarnation exists in the series.

I suspect that we can look to Cersei to find out more about Ellyn.

Escalating the crackpots…:D

Crackpot 2a part 1: Ellyn was Tytos’ mistress glamoured. Ellyn was rumored to be a sorceress per the Lannister fool. Note in the TWOIAF, Ellyn is pictured with lit candles in front of her linking her to fire and Cersei, but is also maybe a clue.

While Cersei is going through her walk, she thinks of Tytos’ mistress and compares herself to her. Ellyn is reported to have died in Tywin’s war against the Reynes, but the report is sketchy and leaves room for speculation, especially when you consider the rumors of sorcery. Ellyn desperately wanted to rule Casterly Rock which is eventually what Tytos’ mistress comes to do. Remember the picture of Ellyn Reyne in the TWOIAF? She was placed in front of candles. Tytos’ mistress was a candlemaker’s daughter.

ADWD Cersei II

Cersei had been a year old when her grandfather died. The first thing her father had done on his ascension was to expel his own father's grasping, lowborn mistress from Casterly Rock. The silks and velvets Lord Tytos had lavished on her and the jewelry she had taken for herself had been stripped from her, and she had been sent forth naked to walk through the streets of Lannisport, so the west could see her for what she was.

The World of Ice and Fire - The Westerlands: House Lannister Under the Dragons

Lady Ellyn remained, but her influence dwindled, while that of Lady Jeyne grew. Soon, the rivalry between Ser Tion's widow and Tytos's wife became truly ugly, if the rumors set down by Maester Beldon can be believed. Beldon tells us that in 239 AC, Ellyn Reyne was accused of bedding Tytos Lannister, urging him to set aside his wife and marry her instead. However, young Tytos (then nineteen) found his brother's widow so intimidating that he was unable to perform. Humiliated, he ran back to his wife to confess and beg her forgiveness.

In 267 AC, Lord Tytos Lannister's heart burst as he was climbing a steep flight of steps to the bedchamber of his mistress (his lordship had finally put aside his wet nurse, only to become besotted with the charms of a candlemaker's daughter). So at the age of five-and-twenty, Tywin Lannister became the Lord of Casterly Rock, Shield of Lannisport, and Warden of the West. With the Laughing Lion at last laid to rest, House Lannister had never been stronger nor more secure. The years that followed were golden ones, not only for the westerlands, but for all the Seven Kingdoms.

As her good-father retreated to his books and his bedchamber, Lady Ellyn held a splendid court, staging a series of magnificent tourneys and balls and filling the Rock with artists, mummers, musicians...and Reynes. Her brothers Roger and Reynard were ever at her side, and offices, honors, and lands were showered upon them, and upon her uncles, cousins, and nephews and nieces as well. Lord Gerold's aged fool, an acerbic hunchback called Lord Toad, was heard to say, "Lady Ellyn must surely be a sorceress, for she has made it rain inside the Rock all year."

 

Crackpot 2a part 2 Littlefinger is related to the Reynes somehow. LF names Sansa after his mother. Alayne sounds a lot like Ellyn and LF later tells Sansa to do exactly what Ellyn did.

ASOS Sansa VI

"I . . . I could call myself after my mother . . ."

"Catelyn? A bit too obvious . . . but after my mother, that would serve. Alayne. Do you like it?"

 

Crackpot 2b: The Reynes at some point married into the Spicers. Take a look at the Spicer Westerling names compared to the Reynes.

Reynard Reyne / Reynald Westerling

Roger Reyne / Rolph Westerling

Cyrelle Reyne Tarbeck / Sybell Spicer

Rohanne Reyne Tarbeck / Rollam Westerling

Ellyn Reyne / Eleyna Westerling

There was a Robb Reyne way back in their history, one of only 3 Robbs in the entire series. Is this a hint that Robb Stark married into the Reynes and died while the Rains of Castamere played?

Ellyn was rumored to be a sorceress and Maggy the Frog is so deep into dark sorcery that Cersei reports that it has corrupted her appearance. Valonqar is “little brother”. Both the Lannisters (gold) and Reynes (red) had lion sigils. This would make the Reynes a “little brother” so to speak to the Lannisters. Ellyn Reyne “made it rain inside the Rock”, they Reynes were drowned in Castamere, and Maggy speaks of drowning.

AFFC Cersei VIII

The old woman was not done with her, however. "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

 

If so, giving Castamere to Rolph Spicer gave Castamere back to the Reynes. 

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14 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Particularly regarding physical appearance, a vampish personality, and a taste for Lannister men. I just got the idea due to the fact that they look very similar.

I think that the TWOIAF picture of Ellyn striking most initially as a picture of Cersei is deliberate, especially given the odd but effective composition choice of the lit candles. If you've read the Westerlands chapter, more similarities stand out.

The unabridged version is here.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/world-of-ice-and-fire-sample/

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15 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Both are ambitious women whose main desire was power by any means necessary and used their bodies as weapons against members to gain power; Ellyn seduced Tywald and Tion Lannister, while Cersei seduced Jaime and Lancel. Both share an odd physical resemblance, being beautiful blonde women.

Neat idea -  never heard this one before,

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