What's in a naem? (Bael and Hardhome? Bolton's and Faceless Men?)

[AlaskanSandman]

6 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I don't think we have any good reason to believe Bael didn't exist, whether or not all the stories about him are true, or accurate. I think it is probably pretty safe to say he lived somewhere between 1500-300 years ago. IIRC, a pretty convincing case has been made for Theon Stark living within the last 2,000 years, and Brandon the Burner within the last 1,000, but I don't recall by whom, or in which thread(s).

Well i include a quote in this thread at least from Wyman Manderly stating they haven't had strength at sea in hundred of years. Theon, and both Brandon's are always listed by Torhenn who knelt. Theon has to be before Burner loses all their ships. I assume Manderly was already in the North when the ships were burned. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Tracing Ae further in Westeros among House names. Only 3 pop up really.

House Baelish of the Vale and now the Riverlands.

House Paege of the Riverlands who can be traced back at least (no earlier?) than roughly 100BC supporting Harwyn Hoare (grandfather of Harren the Black) against Arrec Durrandon. Who's sigil is twining red and white snakes on black.

The only other house in alllllllll of Westeros is in the Storm Lands. Can only be dated to Targaryen times though for sure. Interestingly their sigil is a heart pierced by a blade. Semi canon i think. House Staedmon.

 

No characters from Braavos other than Peter Baelish's grandfather who was  a sell sword and some girl Arya meets as Mercy named Daena. 

 

The Only Valyrian cities i could find named with Ae in it were Aquos Dhaen (unknown location), and Mhysa Faer (unknown location.) Mhysa meaning mother in Old Ghiscari

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IX

 They did not call her name, which few of them could pronounce. "Mother!" they cried instead; in the old dead tongue of Ghis, the word was Mhysa!

 

 

All other city names using AE are Dothraki sacked cities renamed by the Dothraki. Or the Dothraki ciy Vaes Dothrak.

 

Edit- A valyrian house popping up in the riverlands supporting an iron born take over of the rivers and war between the Storm Lands and Iron Isles opens the door for Aegon's Invasion. 

 

 

[AlaskanSandman]

Bael's legend would imply House Stark shares blood with the Valyrians, not the Wildlings, as Ygitte thinks. Well, they probably have their blood too but from longgggg ago, like Brandon the Builder. 

Idk what that would mean for any one's theories but it is interesting. For those thinking Rhaegar chose Lyanna for a reason, this could be a reason. 

Though if im right and Mance and Lyanna hooked up, it would still reinforce the Valyrian gene, as Mance may descend from Bael too either through his unknown father or his mother who was a wildling. Bael may have left other kids beyond the wall. Which may explain where Val comes from. 

Daenerys i still think is a Dayne through Rhaegar and Ashara explaining why Arthur was present the whole time and guard. Though Daynes have no reason to have dragon genes in them right? Except, where did Ashara get purple eyes from since they are a first man house. It is likely some how that the current Daynes have a Targaryen in the family tree. All speculation mind you but thought id share the Bael legend's possible inference on Jon's Blood.

[Targaryen Restoration]

On 9/6/2018 at 7:28 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Tugging at a ball of yarn, bear with me and share any random thoughts you may have.

If you want to figure out a family's descent, the names are a better clue than the eyes. Houses descended from the First Men tend to have simple short names, often descriptive. Stark. Reed. Flint. Tallhart (tall hart). Etc. The Valyrian names are fairly distinct are well: The "ae" usage usually suggests a Valyrian in the family tree. The Andal names are . . . well, neith Stark nor Targaryen, if that makes sense. Lannister. Arryn. Tyrell. Etc. Of course, you also need to remember that there have been hundreds and in some cases thousands of years of interbreeding, so hardly anyone is pure Andal or First Man.

https://archive.is/St3S6#selection-3713.1-3717.252

Bael - Yep

Rhaegar - Yep

Peter Baelish - Yep

Dayne - Nope (Dorne)

House Stane - Nope (Skagos)

 

 

Daeryssa – During the Age of Heroes

Bael – Unknown time, and unknown if real, but tale is supposedly from the North but spelled Bael instead of Bale or Bayle.

 

So what’s going on here? Why do these two tales show the Valyrian spelling? Perhaps the Citadel just respelled them to appease Targaryens? Yet when Ygritte tells us the tale, the author spells it Bael still. But moving on.

 

Aside from Peter Baelish, and the Valyrian. Can we find this form of spelling anywhere else?? We can. The Dothraki in names like Vaes Dothrak

So what is going on here? The Dothraki are great horse lords but they don’t seem to be warging their horses as Varamyr would do, though Varamyr is said to ride a snow bear, so he must be able to still hold on and be present in the moment with in his body, and not fully inside the bear. Maybe this is similar? A mastery of the skill set, or just an altered form of it?

 

Could the Valyrians come from the Dothraki? Or their cousins the Lhazareen. And if so, how did they end up on the opposite side of Ghis in Valyria? And if so, what does this mean for Mirri Maz Dur and Daenerys. Did Mirri help Dany hatch her eggs, or was that not Mirri’s doing?

 

It would appear based off names alone that the Wildlings, and Mountains clans of the North and Vale do not share any link with Valyria. If anything, the guttural nature of some names makes me think Ghis more, but that’s a different subject. I will note though that House Dayne of the Dawn Age doesn’t share the same spelling as Stane. So House Dayne is likely neither First Man, nor Valyrian based off names alone.

 

All I have for now, but I will include all known Dothraki words.

 

  Hide contents

 

Adakhakileki[19]The CannibalsA ruined city with unknown origins
Haesh Rakhi[3]Lamb MenThe Dothraki name for the LhazareenJaqqa rhan[3]Described as the mercy men. Exact translations currently unknown.
Khalakka dothrae[15]The prince is riding
Khalakka dothrae mranha[15]A prince tides inside me
Krazaaj Has[20]Sharp MountainsA Ghiscari city, currently in ruins; the Dothraki name refers to the pyramids that once stood in the city
Krazaaj Zasqa[21][22][23]White MountainsThe Dothraki name for the northern portion of the great mountain chain that divides Essos, more commonly known as the Bones
Khal Rhae Mhar[5]The Sorefoot King
Khal Rhaggat[5]The Cart King
Rakh[15]A boy
Rakh haj[15]A strong boy
Rhaesh Andahli[1][24]The land of the AndalsThe Dothraki name for Westeros
Shierak qiya[8]Bleeding star
Vaes Aresak[25][26]City of CowardsAn Ibbenese town, currently abandoned, originally called Ibbish
Vaes Athjikhari[27]City of SicknessA Sarnori city, currently in ruins, originally called Sallosh, which had also been known as the City of Scholars
Vaes Diaf[28]City of the SkullA Ghiscari city, currently in ruins, originally called Hazdahn Mo
Vaes Efe[29]City of ShacklesA small Ghiscari town, currently in ruins
Vaes Graddakh[30]City of FilthA Sarnori city, currently in ruins, originally called Sarys
Vaes Jini[31]City of GoatsOriginally a city called Yinishar, currently in ruins
Vaes Gorqoyi[32]City of the Blood ChargeOriginally a city called Mardosh, which had also been known as the City of Soldiers
Vaes Khadokh[32][33]City of CorpsesOriginally a Valyrian colony called Essaria, currently in ruins
Vaes Khewo[34]City of WormsA Sarnori city, currently in ruins, originally called Sarnath
Vaes Leisi[35]City of GhostsA formed settlement of the “wood walkers” from the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, currently in ruins
Vaes Leqse[36]City of RatsA Sarnori city, currently in ruins, originally called Gornath
Vaes Mejhah[37]City of WhoresA small Ghiscari town, currently in ruins
Vaes Orvik[38]City of the WhipA small Qartheen city, currently in ruins; the Dothraki name refers to the great number of slaves taken when the city was destroyed.
Vaes Qosar[39]City of SpidersA Qartheen city, currently in ruins, originally called Qolahn
Vaes Shirosi[40]City of ScorpionsA small Qartheen city, currently in ruins
Vaes Tolorro[41]City of BonesAn abandoned city of unknown origin
Vojjor Samvi[42]The Broken GodsA Sarnori city originally called Kasath, which had also been known as the City of Caravans, currently in ruins
Yalli Qamayi[43]Wailing ChildrenA Sarnori city originally called Sathar, which had also been known as the Waterfall City, currently in ruins
 

khal 

 khalasar

drogo

khalakka.[5] 

 ko's.

kos,

khaleesi 

 khas.[3][6][5][7] 

dosh khaleen 

 Vaes Dothrak.[5]

 

 

No the title is not a mispelling haha

Interesting.  I would exercise caution in making definitive conclusions.  A name like Rayder can morph over time from Raeder, Reyder.  Baelish can easily come from Baylish, Beylish.  Dayne from Daen, Dane, Dhane, etc.  

[AlaskanSandman]

3 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

Interesting.  I would exercise caution in making definitive conclusions.  A name like Rayder can morph over time from Raeder, Reyder.  Baelish can easily come from Baylish, Beylish.  Dayne from Daen, Dane, Dhane, etc.  

That contradicts what GRRM says and the consistency of his naming though

Edit- Discussed more through the comments

 

[AlaskanSandman]

Tracing first names there are a few that pop up, most aren't hard to figure out and nothing special.

Firstly, alot among House Targaryen, and House Velaryon. So the name pops up among any of their bastard too like Aegor Rivers etc.

House Frey has alot currently though all likely because Lord Frey was trying to kiss up to the Targaryen's.

 

The Iron Isles has some current ones 

    Baelor Blacktyde, current Lord died in 300ac

     Aeron Greyjoy

     Daegon Sheppard serving under Victarion.

Aemon Steel Song- Son of Mance named after Maester Aemon.

 

Here are the interesting ones.

Arch Maester Haereg who wrote the History of the Iron Born.

Grand Maester Kaeth who served under Aegon V

and Arch Maester Vaellyn the Star Gazer who nick named Marwyn the mage. 

 

In the River Lands during War of 5 Kings.

Maerie Goodwife killed by Lannisters 

Maerie the Whore killed by Lannister.

 

Dorne

Lord Daeron Vaith 

Daemon Sand bastard of Ryon Allyrion heir of the House.

 

Reach

Aegon Ambrose during Maegor's reign though maybe named for Aegon the Conqueror? Or Rhaenys did sleep around.

Aemon Costayne - a singer at Jofferys purple wedding.

Margaery Tyrell - daughter of Lord Mace Tryell.

 

The North

Maege Mormont - Sister to Jeor Mormont.

 

So not a lot really, very few in fact.

[AlaskanSandman]

Found another one, among the Sarnori. Making them the third, among the Valyrians, and Dothraki to use it in their speech.

The Sarnori are known as the Tall Men- Tagaez Fen in their own tongue.

Interestingly they descend from Huzhor Amai which is similar to Azor Ahai, which is either Valyrian or from Ashaii.

They are also originally made up of three tribes, one of which sounds similar the Dothraki.

Quote

 

The Zoqora were an ancient people of the grasslands of central Essos. They were at some point conquered and assimilated by the Tall Men. According to legend, the daughter of their greatest ruler was married by Huzhor Amai, bringing the Zoqora under his rule. The Zoqora wife of Amai was charged with driving his war chariot.^[1]

The Zoqora were brown-skinned and pale-haired, and rode to war in chariots.

 

While one of the other tribes that make them up sounds like Andals or pre-Andals, or the Rhoynar who supposedly taught the Andals Iron working. Take your pic.

Quote

 

The Cymmeri were an ancient people of the grasslands of central Essos, who established their kingdoms among the hills. They were at some point conquered and assimilated by the Tall Men. According to legend, the daughter of their greatest ruler was married by Huzhor Amai, bringing the Cymmeri under his rule. The Cymmeri wife of Amai was charged with making his armor.^[1]

The Cymmeri are the first people known to have worked iron.

 

While in Yunkai, Dany is called mother in multiple tongues. Mhysa (Ghiscari), Maela, Aelalla, Qathei, and Tato.  

So we know there are at least 2 languages that are similar (both share Aela) and use the Ae sound found with Valyrians. 

 

Many many theories surrounding Huzhor Amai and Azor Ahai. I wont go into those more but may be applicable here.

[Ser Micaelys]

doesn't your last few posts contradict putting emphasis on Bael's spelling being a hint to valyrian ancestry. It may not be common in non valyrian names but that doesn't make it unique.

9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That contradicts what GRRM says and the consistency of his naming though

Edit- Discussed more through the comments

 

 

no it doesn't. In your GRRM quote the words 'tend to' and 'usually' are used, these are not absolutes.  There are exceptions to his consistency, his self proclaimed non absolute consistency.

It's clear that AE is very, very prevalent in Valyrian first names, where as it's not prevalent in the FM or Andals but not non existent.  Though it's not a name, it is a title, but maester predates Andals in Westeros, which if they're not a Valyrian organisation gives further credence to its usage with the first men.

I'm curious about how AE should be pronounced, is there a set rule in Valyrian or the common tongue etc.

Maege, Maester, Paege, Baelish I always hear the ay sound in my head.

With the Targ names its less consistent, in my head and when I hear others say it. Aegon? Eh-gon or Ay-gon, so then how does Daemon, Daeron, Aemon and Aenys get said. What about the female ae is Rhaelle, Daenerys, Rhaenys and Daena.

How does Bael sound?  

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Ser Micaelys said:

 

Read the comments. 

[Ser Micaelys]

apologies, as soon as I pressed submit I realised I was confusing two separate threads I've been reading. the Bael connection and the fact my internet constantly cuts out so I read the already loaded pages of multiple threads and go back and forth. And of course even though I realised my mistake immediately and went to edit you were too quick for me and saw the middle section I had planned to cut out, added that it took so long to edit because my internet kept cutting out. 

[AlaskanSandman]

On 9/8/2018 at 7:49 AM, Ser Micaelys said:

doesn't your last few posts contradict putting emphasis on Bael's spelling being a hint to valyrian ancestry. It may not be common in non valyrian names but that doesn't make it unique.

 

no it doesn't. In your GRRM quote the words 'tend to' and 'usually' are used, these are not absolutes.  There are exceptions to his consistency, his self proclaimed non absolute consistency.

It's clear that AE is very, very prevalent in Valyrian first names, where as it's not prevalent in the FM or Andals but not non existent.  Though it's not a name, it is a title, but maester predates Andals in Westeros, which if they're not a Valyrian organisation gives further credence to its usage with the first men.

I'm curious about how AE should be pronounced, is there a set rule in Valyrian or the common tongue etc.

Maege, Maester, Paege, Baelish I always hear the ay sound in my head.

With the Targ names its less consistent, in my head and when I hear others say it. Aegon? Eh-gon or Ay-gon, so then how does Daemon, Daeron, Aemon and Aenys get said. What about the female ae is Rhaelle, Daenerys, Rhaenys and Daena.

How does Bael sound?  

Sorry, was busy with work and didn't have time to respond appropriately. 

Last few post on Bael have been made obsolete by Ran (Elio) stating that Bael is pre-targaryen. So if he did live, we were discussing in this thread the possibility of him living when Hardhome was sacked and Valyria took Dragonstone. 

As far as that spelling in Westeros? Not at all. There are only a few for sure pre-Targaryens. Bael and Daeryssa, which could be chalked up to legend. House Paege and House Staedmon are the only two families with it in their last names. One can be traced at least back to serving House Frey, who has only been in the River Lands for sure, as long as Valyria has held dragonstone. Maesters is very odd. Thats it. Aside from some people with first names that are all after the Conquest (and likely have Targaryen genes somewhere as per GRRM.)

 

So Jorah marrying a Hightower when Jorah's sister is names Maege. Suddenly makes it possibly more understandable why a marriage like this would be allowed. 

Baelish sure comes from Braavos, but aside from some current whore in Braavos, no one else has a name with ae.

It's veryyyyyyy rare, and most are from after the Conquest. Meaning it's even more likely their is a Valyrian in the family tree. 

Only 4 cultures in Essos show evidence of this spelling. 

Sarnori in their name for them selves, Tagaez Fen. This culture originates from Huzhor Amai which sounds alottt like Azor Ahai. This figure conquered the Gipps, Cymerri, and Zoqorro tribes, so he likely is not from the Area. Ill get back to this. 

 

The Dothraki - Is it the Dothraki spelling things this way? Or some one else spelling it for them?

The Valyrian's obviously

And possibly Ghis.             Mhysa Faer is a Valyrian city possibly, but Mhysa is a ghiscari word of old. Mhysa, Maela, Aelalla, Qhathei, and Tato are other words for mother. 

We can see two, Maela and Aelalla both have Ae and Aela in the word. So may be another variant of mother in Valyrian, or from one of the Bastard tongues (Like how modern Ghiscari is a bastard Valyrian dialect and recognizable by Dany.)

 

Swinging back around to Huzhor Amai and Azor Ahai. I can't find any other cultures that uses this form of spelling in Essos. 

No Valyrian words pop up, no Sarnori words other than Huzhor Amai, and no Rhoynish words. 

The only culture in all of Essos i can find this spelling in is Yunkai, and Gorgai, both of which are old Ghiscari settlements. Gorgai got renamed to Gogossos by the Valyrians. 

The onlyyyyyy other place i can find Ai, is in Westeros, but like Ae, is veryyyyy rare.

House Vaith Dorne who provided a mistress for Aegon IV. Interesting. Cassella Vaith who had Green Eyes and pale white blonde hair.

And House Haigh, in service to House Frey. So of Ae and Ai being very rare in westeros, two of the four houses Paege and Haigh are both in service to House Frey, who pop up the same century Valyria takes Dragonstone.

Is this a variant of Ae? Your "usually" and "tend to" maybe referring to the possibility of another indicator?

As far as first names? This is where it starts to get interesting and im building to pronunciation of the vowel.

Arch Maester Glaive - unknown origin. 
Jaime Frey, Jaime Corbray, and Jaime Lannister (this is the bit building to the sounding of the vowel) Once again we have a Frey, of course we do. Next we have Jaime Corbray, an Andal knight said to have recovered Lady Forlorn from Robar Royce when fighting Ser Artys Arryn. Why an Andal has a Valyrian steel sword is an interesting enough question, so something odd about this house to begin with.

Jaime Lannister- (remember what i said about Casella Vaith? Put a pin in that) So house Lannister is linked by some Maester in TWOIAF to the founding of Valyria and linial claims to House Lannister and House Gardener (Ill get back to this too.) So needless to say, some interesting inclusions about House Lannister and Valyian connections already.

Remember what i said about Casella Vaith? and Ae and Ai? Well what about Ei? Which one sounds like A and which sounds like I? Or do they all make the same sound?

Marei is an interesting girl (Whore at Chataya's brothel in K.L.) as her name stands out as a spelling also very rare in Westeros, and she also has Green Eyes, pale skin, and hair of white honey gold, like Casella Vaith. Most speculate that Marei is the daughter of Lord Tywin Lannister.

So where can we find Ei? Well obviously in House Frey, with Shirei Frey. House Paege who is already on our list has a Sallei Paege. 

There is a Carolei Waynwood of the Vale (Andal like Corbray?) married to a Frey (of Course).

Creighton Red Fort of the Vale. Now the Red Forts are a FM house supposedly and as the name is only a first name, it may just be an adopted name. Maybe the married a Corbray?

Janei Lannister, daughter of Kevin Lannister, brother of Tywin. One with a daughter Janei, the other with Marei? Interesting, of course we would find it in House Lannister.

Amarei Crakehall of the Westerlands, near them Lannisters. Ill touch on them more in a min. 

Wynafrei Whent of the RiverLands who were in the Service to House Lothston who could supposedly turn into Bats. 

Last but not least, a random whore at Moles town named Zei.

That's it. Youd think with a list of Thousands of Characters and Houses that we'd get more than that. And the rarity in Essos is even more striking. Valyria and Ghis. What is the difference between them? Why is their Sphinxes out side the Citadel and the group is called Maesters? 

And which is which? Ae, Ai, Ei?   Are they sounded "Day" or "Ice". Could they be signs of shifts in culture? Ghis used Ai, Valyria used Ae, and the Andals used Ei? (This seems possibly to be the case) With Ei and Ai having the same sounds in Janei Lannister and Jaime Lannister.

Now these three do not pop up among the Free Folk. So make of that what you will. Caster, son of Corlos (Naming scheme similar to that of the Vale Mountain Clans, though not of the Northern clans Brandon Norrey is called, the younger, not son of, and his father is Brandon the Norrey. Corlos is not called, the Corlos. Further, Caster built Casterly Rock. Which is markedly different than Duran God' Grief and Storm's End or Brandon the Builder and Winterfell. 

Take Ellyn Ever Sweet, founder of House Beesbury of Honey Holt. Every bit an association to something in her legend, same as Brandon and Durran, not Corlos and Caster. 

I think this might be a sign among the older houses. It seems to me that the True Fm were different than those of the families we see during the Age of Heroes from Garth's family and such. 

The formation of these houses in accordance to the Wildling ways of doing things seems a possible clue in all this. Skagos is the only wildlings to have Houses. One of which is named Magnar, which is what North of the Wall is used for Lord among the Thenns, but is possibly a title closer to a god than a lord. Are the Skagosi not really Fm? or mixed? They use the old tongue unlike any other houses though.  When did they form Houses? Was it after Valyria took Dragonstone? After Hardhome was burned down? A magnar of Skagos is a possible option listed for the Night King, so they appear to be really old. Why did they change though? Why are they not like the Wildlings north of the Wall? They have ships even where as the Wildlings seem to not have ships, other wise they could just sail south at ease.

We do know that both Valyria and Ghis used slaves though, so it's quite possible both were coming to Westeros for slaves a long time ago. Leaving traces such as the Maesters with their sphinxes. 

Thats all the crazy i got for now though, im spent. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Fixed some spelling errors (Kept wanting to spell Jaime as Jamie), and color coded the sounds to follow easier. 

Didn't spell out everything. Like Lannister's being of Ghis blood possibly till the Andal invasion. Or maybe it was that the Casterly's had the Ghiscari blood and the Lannisters were always Andals to begin with. 

 

Did not mention Serwyn of the Mirror Shield and Daeryssa's legend though it is interesting with the above mentions. 

Considering Serwyn was said to serve a Tagaryen King (Though a list of Gardener kings he possibly served is given, though one maester links blood claims in the Reach and Westerlands to the Founding of Valyria.), and Daeryssa is spelled with the Ae, and he fought dragons and supposedly was in the Kings Guard (or more likely the Order of the Green Hand)

[Legitimate_Bastard]

On 9/6/2018 at 8:17 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

I wondered about that difference. Perhaps the same as Velaryon, Aerion? Maybe a shift in phonetic spelling over time? Though interesting for the Dothraki to have the Ae 

I've wondered this too. 

[AlaskanSandman]

22 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I've wondered this too. 

Its a trip. They have Ae in their names like the Valyrians,

they resemble the dark skin of the Lhazareene, 

Quote

The Lhazareen have copper skin and almond-shaped eyes, similar to the Dothraki, but they are more squat and flat-faced and have black hair cropped short. They herd sheep and farm. Their language has a sing-song quality.^[2] The Dothraki believe they lay with sheep.

who do not look like the Qaathi and Qaarth.

Quote

Milk Men is the name for the Qartheen in the Dothraki language. They are called this due to their pale complexion.

They also sound some what similar to one of the tribes conquered by Huzhor Amai, The Zorqoro who had brown skin and pale hair.

Quote

The Zoqora were brown-skinned and pale-haired, and rode to war in chariots.

Yet are said to descend from the East and the Jogos Nhai?
 

Quote

 

Jogos Nhai are as a rule, a head shorter than the Dothraki and are described as squat, bowlegged, and swarthy, with large heads, small faces, and sallow-colored skin. Men and women both have pointed skulls, a result of the custom of binding the heads of their newborn during the first two years of life

 

Sallow=of an unhealthy yellow or pale brown color.

 

And vary in customs

Quote

 

The Jogos Nhai are a nomadic people who live in yurts, tents, and saddles. They are a proud, warlike race who prize freedom above all and are never content to remain in once place for long.^[2]

Besides their custom of skull modification, the Jogos Nhai shave their heads but for a single strip of hair down the center of the skull, while women go wholly bald and are said to scrape all the hair even from their pubic area.^[2]

The Jogos Nhai are also renowned for their zorses.^[3] These mounts are the result of breeding horses with another horse-like species from the southern region of Yi Ti and the isle of Leng.^[2]

They travel in small bands closely connected by blood. Each one is commanded by a jhat, or war chief, and a moonsinger, who combines the roles of priestess, healer, and judge. The jhat leads in war, battle, and raid, whereas other matters are ruled by the band's moonsinger. There are also female jhatsand male moonsingers, but girls who choose the warrior's way are expected to dress and live as men, whereas boys who choose to become moonsingers must dress and live as women, making it difficult to tell apart when such cases take place.^[2]

Unlike the Dothraki khalasars, Jogos Nhai's band do not make war upon one another, as their gods forbid them to shed the blood of their own people. Young men do ride out to steal goats, zorses, and dogs from other bands, while girls go forth to abduct husbands, but these are rituals hallowed by the gods, during which no blood may be shed. However, the Jogos Nhai do live in a perpetual state of warfare against all their neighboring peoples.^[2]

The religion of the moonsingers is prominent among them

 

 

Maybe they came from the East and bred with the Tall Men/ zoqorro of the Sarnori, The Lhazareen and the Valyrians, to develop into the Dothraki? But, where were they hiding this whole time? and what were they doing? Why only when Valyria is destroyed, of whose words the Dothraki are spelled like???

Yet the Dothraki sack all their cities all the same. 

I dont even know where to begin with them

[Legitimate_Bastard]

1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Maybe they came from the East and bred with the Tall Men/ zoqorro of the Sarnori, The Lhazareen and the Valyrians, to develop into the Dothraki? But, where were they hiding this whole time? and what were they doing? Why only when Valyria is destroyed, of whose words the Dothraki are spelled like???

Yet the Dothraki sack all their cities all the same. 

I dont even know where to begin with them

I have always wondered if the Dothraki were "chased" west by the Jogos Nhai in a similar fashion to the Cumans being pushed by the Mongols. I know GRRM likes to mix and match from history so I feel it could have been inspired by the migrations on the steppe even with a different outcome on ASOIAF.

Is there any mention of the Dothraki and the Jogos Nhai fighting each other?

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I have always wondered if the Dothraki were "chased" west by the Jogos Nhai in a similar fashion to the Cumans being pushed by the Mongols. I know GRRM likes to mix and match from history so I feel it could have been inspired by the migrations on the steppe even with a different outcome on ASOIAF.

Is there any mention of the Dothraki and the Jogos Nhai fighting each other?

None, but the Jogos Nhai are mentioned as far back as AGOT. 

[Legitimate_Bastard]

 

9 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

None, but the Jogos Nhai are mentioned as far back as AGOT. 

I hope they feature more in the books to come - but I feel it is not likely.

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Legitimate_Bastard said:

 

I hope they feature more in the books to come - but I feel it is not likely.

Well, hard to say, their moonsingers have a special spot among the Braavosi. Really hard to say how connected anything is in this story. 

[Springwatch]

On 9/10/2018 at 10:49 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Marei is an interesting girl (Whore at Chataya's brothel in K.L.) as her name stands out as a spelling also very rare in Westeros, and she also has Green Eyes, pale skin, and hair of white honey gold, like Casella Vaith. Most speculate that Marei is the daughter of Lord Tywin Lannister.

So where can we find Ei? Well obviously in House Frey, with Shirei Frey. House Paege who is already on our list has a Sallei Paege. 

There is a Carolei Waynwood of the Vale (Andal like Corbray?) married to a Frey (of Course).

Creighton Red Fort of the Vale. Now the Red Forts are a FM house supposedly and as the name is only a first name, it may just be an adopted name. Maybe the married a Corbray?

Janei Lannister, daughter of Kevin Lannister, brother of Tywin. One with a daughter Janei, the other with Marei? Interesting, of course we would find it in House Lannister.

Amarei Crakehall of the Westerlands, near them Lannisters. Ill touch on them more in a min. 

Wynafrei Whent of the RiverLands who were in the Service to House Lothston who could supposedly turn into Bats. 

Last but not least, a random whore at Moles town named Zei.

And first and foremost, Elenei, magical daughter of the Storm Gods. Love the idea of Marei as Tywin's daughter (she doesn't smile does she? nor does he.) I always wanted her to be a Cersei shadow.

Great thread, very interesting! It's like these exotic names were constructed from a kit of parts, according to a formula.

[AlaskanSandman]

4 hours ago, Springwatch said:

And first and foremost, Elenei, magical daughter of the Storm Gods. Love the idea of Marei as Tywin's daughter (she doesn't smile does she? nor does he.) I always wanted her to be a Cersei shadow.

Great thread, very interesting! It's like these exotic names were constructed from a kit of parts, according to a formula.

Thank you!!  i thought the Marei thing really interesting and definitely makes me think that Tywin is the hand who created the secret passage to Chataya's.

 

I thought House Vaith really interesting too. They are right next to where Rhaeny's was supposedly lost at HellHolt (side note-hult means woods, so Hell Woods, don't know why it's depicted as a desert in paintings. Unless its just a desert now. Dorne sounds like it had trees once. )

House Vaith pops up with Casella Vaith as a mistress to Aegon IV, with the next known member of House Vaith being Daeron Vaith, implying he's a Targaryen either from Aegon IV or from Rhaeny's, sister of Aegon the Conqueror. 

Arianne was looking to crown Myrcella at Hell Holt where Rhaeny's was lost too. Can't help but wonder if Rhaenys actually survived. 

Edit- Great catch on Elenei!! Forgot to mention her!